/ Annoyed

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Chris Huntington - on 24 Nov 2016
Just a short rant.

Went all out and bought an Arcteryx Alpha AR jacket (in the sale admittedly but still had to remortgage my house) back in February.

Have used it quite a bit but was doing some easy climbing in the lakes last week and a hole tore in the front (several holes actually) on and around the chest pocket. Gore-tex Pro shell obviously. I didn't even notice it until I topped out and my mate pointed out the holes, several abrasion holes down the front of the jacket and a 1cm by 1cm tear.

I realise no jacket is bulletproof however I took it back to the retailer (with receipt) as I was told Arcteryx had 'incredible service' built into the price tag (and it was only 6 months old) I thought worst case scenario they would glue a patch on the holes and tell me to be more careful with next time.

The retailer said they could do nothing as I had obviously caused the damage myself but they would send off to Arcteryx. They responded saying they would repair the damage for £75.

Am I being unreasonable? The jacket states it is for all round alpine and recommended for winter and rock climbing. At £480 price tag I would expect it to stand up to at least 3 seasons unless I did something majorly stupid with it.

Feedback welcome- I won't be offended if you tell me its my own fault.


richlan - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

So in simplistic terms you tore a hole your jacket (the mechanism doesn't matter really) and you expect the manufacturer to repair it ?

I think you are being unreasonable, sorry.
Chris Huntington - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to richlan:

Okay mate- that's why I posted the article just needed to sense check it.

I guess I'm frustrated as its damaged and it was a huge amount of money and I have't had it very long, and I didn't think what I was doing with it was anything out of the ordinary.

Feedback taken! I'll shut up about it.
marsbar - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to richlan:

For that price I'd expect it to be for for purpose. It's not like he took a knife to it. Either it's durable enough to rub against rocks, or it's not fit for rock climbing.
richlan - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to marsbar:

It is fit for purpose i am guessing, the purpose of keeping rain out.
wbo - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:
Norrona patched my stuff for free when I tore it putting up a sheep fence


Greasy Prusiks on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

Depends. If you were wriggling up a gnarly offwidth and it's got abrasion holes in then that's your fault if you just reached up for a hold and it spontaneously tore then you've got a pretty good case .

I think the real mistake was paying £480 for a coat! ;-)
JayPee630 - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

You're a bit unclear as to how the holes got there? TBH it sounds like not a fault of the jacket though and I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect a free repair if you caught it on something.
Chris Huntington - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to JayPee630:

That's the thing- I didn't even know I had damaged it until I completed the route it's not like I caught it and thought 'oh god I've torn my jacket'.

George Fisher - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

I'm not going to comment on your jacket but great service does exist out there.

I sent my 7 year old totally trashed Patagonia fleece back them for a zip repair. The rest of the jacket was covered in holes but I still used it for work and I was fine with them not repairing the holes. It really was hanging together in places.

They emailed me to say they couldn't repair the zip in a way they were happy with so I could have it back and a 40% discount on a new one or the other option they'll recycle the jacket and send me a brand new one in my choice of colour and size. All it cost me was postage to Portugal. They're even paying return postage!!

I'll be spending more money with them in future. Why would I shop with anyone else?? That original fleece is now half price!! In fact it might be a fleece for life...





Chris Huntington - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to richlan:

Yeah- point taken, but if that was all it was for we would all wear gore tex paclite and not stupidly (admittedly) pay more for ones that's supposed to be stronger fabric.
Smythson on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

DESCRIPTION
The Alpha AR is a versatile, intelligently designed hardshell that performs across a range of alpine conditions. Light, durable N40r-X 3L GORE-TEX® Pro delivers durable waterproof, windproof, breathable performance. Burly N80p-X GORE-TEX® Pro reinforces high wear areas. The helmet compatible StormHood™ delivers full protection with minimal impact on vision and secures with glove-friendly Cohaesive™ cordlocks. Large crossover chest pockets are easily accessed, and pit zips add ventilation.

When contrasted to the description it would appear to have failed in the areas of 'durable' and 'burly'...

I've got a much older (10+ years) version of this that although heavier, rather than tearing it just keeps getting more furry, which I can live with.

S
richlan - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:
Well you asked if people thought you were being unreasonable, so far its about 50/50 !

> At £480 price tag I would expect it to stand up to at least 3 seasons unless I did something majorly stupid with it.

Sounds like you might have ? But in reality it's a bit difficult to comment fully without seeing the damage, for instance is it really an abrasion hole, a tear or a cut, did you have anything in the chest pocket, what type of rock were you climbing, did you have ice tools slung on your shoulder etc. etc.

I can see where Arcteryx are coming from, they back with holes in it, for all they know it may have been dragged behind a car.....
Post edited at 13:28
GrahamD - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

For all the hype surrounding Arteryx, it is only a goretex anorak and goretex is definitely not indestructible. At £480 you are paying a substantial amount of premium for the name, not the materials.

Doesn't seem unreasonable to charge repair wear and tear. Having said that, because the name does have such high market value, maybe you will get lucky.
Big Lee - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

My experience is that it's not worth buying the expensive stuff for UK winter. However much you spend it'll still get trashed in the same time. I used to have the same jacket btw and I tore it fairly quickly as well. It wasn't the fault of the manufacturer though. It was the fault of Crypt Route on Bidean nam Bian.
jkarran - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

For the frankly stupid price (480 quid for a coat!) you'd really hope and expect they'd patch it as a good will gesture.

Weighed against that, the fact you ripped it does not automatically imply it's inadequately designed, you bought a light coat when a heavier one would be tougher, you made a choice and sometimes stuff happens.
jk
Jenny C on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

Sorry but it sounds like fair wear and tear to me. Yes incredibly frustrating on such an expensive jacket, but unfortunately modern lightweight fabrics are nowhere near as durable to abrasion as the materials we had 20 years ago.

I must admit £75 for a repair does sound steep, but I suspect that Arc'teryx will be doing rather more than just gluing a patch over the damage and it will be done to a very high standard.
deepsoup - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Jenny C:
> I must admit £75 for a repair does sound steep, but I suspect that Arc'teryx will be doing rather more than just gluing a patch over the damage and it will be done to a very high standard.

Unless they're just going to charge way over the odds for something really quite ordinary. But I'm sure Arc'teryx would never do that.
Chris Huntington - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to George Fisher:
That is great service.
Post edited at 14:17
Chris Huntington - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:
I appreciate all the feedback.

I was genuinely posting as I felt annoyed and wanted to know if I was being unreasonable.

Taking into account the majority of responses I think it appears that Arcteryx have been fair in saying its my fault and they will repair it for £75.

I didn't mention that I was told by the retailer when I bought the Alpha AR that Arcteryx had great service and often did repairs for free- they have now backtracked on this when I mentioned it to them.

I will say this though, I'm not sure I will be rushing out to buy another one. I will next time go for a sale cheaper brand pro shell, as I see now I am literally paying for the name.
Post edited at 14:26
George Fisher - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

It's bonkers service. I use a jacket for 7 years. Wear it out, they advertise a repair service and go way beyond that.

I don't get the economics of it. Is me posting on here and people like you buying your next jacket from them enough to cover that cost? Do they make so much profit they can give away stuff? Are they just genuinely concerned about customers?

We would and do go out of our way to look after customers but we couldn't replace products that were worn out through general use long long after any reasonable period and stay in business.
Guy Hurst - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

Or go for a jacket made by Patagonia, who have done free repairs on stuff of mine which had simply worn out. Paramo have also done free repairs on gear I'd ripped through simple carelessness.
Lusk - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

WOW, £480 for a waterproof! Do you wear a Savile Row suit underneath?
You're just going low grade rock climbing (like me), anything you wear is going to get trashed, just get a <£50 job from Decathlon or the like.
TobyA on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

Have you worked out how you got the holes in it?

Thinking about it I very rarely wear a hardshell while rock climbing - I guess my 'logic' is I won't be rock climbing if it is raining - but I think at very least you were really unlucky to get holes in it. So I sort of see the point of the company saying 'user error'. I know the descriptions of gear will always talk about "armour for the high mountains" and all that sort of stuff, but I guess it is unrealistic to think that you'll never damage that clothing using it for those activities.

But like I said, unlucky - I've not got the most stylish of climbing styles - I will definitely get a shoulder or knee in a crack if I think its going to help, and seem to 'udge' quite a lot, but I really can't think of times when I've badly damaged clothing climbing. Trouser knees on cotton troos most, but my softshell type trousers seem to have all lasted very well.

I did a VS at Froggat on Saturday that finishes with a short offwidth. This turned out to be harder than I thought and with gear at foot level and very cold hands, I got a bit scared. I'm reviewing the new Alpkit Heiko insulated smock currently and really expected that it was going to get ripped as struggled up this - elbows, shoulders and knees all being used - and was pretty surprised belly flopping onto the top that it was fine! Generally I've found nylon to be tougher than I expect, which is why I say you sound unlucky.

If the holes are not that massive you could patch them yourself and not pay the 75 quid?
GrahamD - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

Did you have any keys in the pocket ?
Chris Huntington - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to TobyA:

Yes- I'm going to order the patches myself. I've repaired winter pants before myself and they work pretty wel.
Chris Huntington - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to GrahamD:

Nah- just a iphone in the chest pocket in a waterproof bag. The phone is fine btw.

People are asking what I was doing. I was leading my mate (who is learning to climb), we were on a diff climb in the lakes the weekend before all this snow tipped down. It was cold and mizzly so I threw my gore tex jacket on over a thin mid layer to stop myself getting wet through.

It was easy climbing in big boots in the wet. I must have scraped my chest over a rock at some point which caused the hole and abrasions/further small holes. Fair one- like I say the general consensus is it's my own fault.

Too add a bit more reasoning behind why I was annoyed and asking peoples opinion my last jacket was a north face point five and I had it for 6 years. It had no holes but it was wetting out very easily (despite reproofing) and I decided to retire it to a spares box and plump for the fancy new one. It had taken a lot of abuse, including a 3 week expedition in Kyrgyzstan. I clearly had higher than reasonable expectations of the new jacket.

The alpha jacket had done 4 days in the alps, 2 days in Scotland and one other day in the lakes prior to the 'incident'.

galpinos on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to George Fisher:

It's their ethos. Pay a premium for the product and it lasts. There plan is to make long lasting quality products, to get away from the disposable fashion ethos, to avoid landfill filling up with perfectly usable clothing and reduce, repair, reuse and recycle.

I have had similar service and prefer to save up and spend my money* on their kit than many other brands.

*They also have pretty good sales so if you don't mind last season's colours, you can get that same quality product and service with the responsible ethos for a competitive price.
Babika - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:
I'm sympathetic.

A similar thing happened to me with an Alpha costing over £400. After 1 week in the Alps, worn on and off for climbing and a couple of summer outings in North Wales I noticed the material abrading on the chest. No hole, but it would clearly come fairly soon.

I wrote back to the retailer pointing out the sales pitch of this particular jacket, the claims made and the photos of the sort of places it was pictured in. In other words the Alpha's intended use was a little beyond the high street or the seaside.

The retailer immediately did a full replacement.

That was 4 years ago and I haven't had any problems with the replacement Alpha jacket despite giving it similar wear. You may well have a duff model and I would persist with a polite request for assistance.

ads.ukclimbing.com
jonnie3430 - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

I've given up with new kit for winter now as it looks second hand after a week. My paramo aspira was replaced by a paramo Quito as it was lighter and fit better. After quite a lot of holes in the Quito I'm back to using the aspira, which doesn't seem to notice much (including crypt route and the clanger...) It's good stuff.
Chris Huntington - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Babika:

Hmmm...might be worth keeping in at them
Siward on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Jenny C:

> Sorry but it sounds like fair wear and tear to me. Yes incredibly frustrating on such an expensive jacket, but unfortunately modern lightweight fabrics are nowhere near as durable to abrasion as the materials we had 20 years ago.

So true- 'progress' I suppose, or is that built in obsolescence? It's hardly as if human kind has lost the knowledge required to manufacture heavy duty nylon is it? I'm really not sure, outside of long distance backpacking, what the benefit is in saving 300g on a jacket, particularly if it's being worn.

marsbar - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Jenny C:

I had Palm put a new neck seal on my dry suit and test it for half that. That was fair wear and tear, and a reasonable price for a uk repair and postage. £75 is ridiculous.
marsbar - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to richlan:

It says climbing. I'd expect a certain durability for that. I seem to remember the saying being pick any 2, light, durable, cheap. It wasn't cheap so I'd expect light and durable. Personally I'd go to trading standards and tell them where to stick their £75.

No wonder customer service is so bad these days.
Hay - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:
Its a shame youre so far north. Patagonia have their Worn Wear wagon on the road in London this week. They'd fix you're Arc jacket for you on the day.

As for the jacket, I reckon Scottish Mountain Gear would repair cheaper than £75 and do a decent job.
FWIW I'd say user damage but I feel your pain. I put crampons through £200 pants on first day ... 2" above crampon patch.

Bruce
rogerwebb - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

That surprises me, I have twice returned an Arctyrex jacket because of early wear holes and in both cases it was replaced without question by the retailer (Ellis Brigham).
The final replacement is still going after 9 years.
munro90 - on 25 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

It is difficult to say whether it is reasonable given the mechanism of the damage and without seeing its extent.

That said, some 'premium' companies have a lot to learn from others. Patagonia have a great ethic of reuse and repair - their repair wagon in London this week and anecdotes of good service in this very thread pay witness to that.
In the cycling world both Rapha and Vulpine are very much at the expensive end of a sport which is probably even more expensive than climbing, but they both offer free no-questions-asked repairs. As a result they get a whole bunch of customers for life.

I would say Arcteryx might want to reconsider their customer strategy, but they're probably too busy extorting hundreds out of folks who will never take their waterproof off the high street. So I guess the answer is to seek out a cheaper third-party repair and take your business elsewhere in future.

Out of interest, who was the retailer? The requirement for goods to be fit for purpose (which is what is in question here) is a matter between buyer and retailer under the Sale of Goods Act, the manufacturer shouldn't come in to it.
Simon Caldwell - on 25 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

Apart from paying £480 for a coat, your main mistake was not to put the name of the manufacturer in the thread title, which would have increased the chance of their seeing it and giving you a new jacket to avoid damaging their reputation further.
marsbar - on 25 Nov 2016
In reply to munro90:

That's a good point, because someone else said Ellis Brigham did sort things out.
L TheAtrociousSnowman on 25 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

IMO they should have used you to sell more jackets. They could have asked for a photo to show the jacket being utilised correctly and then repaired it for free and expected you to then encourage others to buy their jackets at full retail price in future. Arcteryx use climbers and skiers and special forces all the time, or the images of such, to sell their gear through paid adverts, so it would be consistent in reality.

Saying that, the best service I have ever received was from Norrona; the worst from Arcteryx. I think Goretex is picking up the tab for a lot of fabric failures, because this real world example doesn't match what I have heard with regard to Arcteryx replacing jackets when the hem glue fails and so on.

Having just discovered Sports Pursuit, I doubt I will ever pay more than half price for Arcteryx again, though it will mean wearing f*ck off orange or yellow whatever. And 40 denier is just pushing it anyway, so partly your fault...
beardy mike - on 25 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

Would you expect a car manufacturer to repair a scratch on your car for free?
Chris Huntington - on 27 Nov 2016
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

I didn't want to be like those people on trip advisor who head straight online when they don't get what they want.

But screw it- it was Cotswolds.
Goucho on 27 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

This is the trouble with all this moden lightweight gear.

Now in an old 70's Helly Hansen cag, you could spend a month sliding up and down Fat Man's Chimney at Black Rocks, while someone poured buckets of hot gravel on top of you, and it would be like the Black Knight off The Holy Grail - "Is that all you've got?
marsbar - on 27 Nov 2016
In reply to beardy mike:

I'd expect a car company not to advertise their paintwork as suitable for driving along scraping rock faces. Or to put it another way, I'd expect a car company to replace bits that just fell off when I'm driving along on a new car that's only been out a few times.
BnB - on 27 Nov 2016
In reply to TobyA:

> I did a VS at Froggat on Saturday that finishes with a short offwidth. This turned out to be harder than I thought and with gear at foot level and very cold hands, I got a bit scared. I'm reviewing the new Alpkit Heiko insulated smock currently and really expected that it was going to get ripped as struggled up this - elbows, shoulders and knees all being used - and was pretty surprised belly flopping onto the top that it was fine! Generally I've found nylon to be tougher than I expect, which is why I say you sound unlucky.

As I read this account I immediately thought (with a shiver) Bollard Crack. And a quick glance at your logbook confirms the nightmare. Brrrrrr.

Denni on 27 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:
I really like Arcteryx kit well, older Arcteryx kit. I've got an SV that is good old goretex rather
than pro shell and it is battered but still waterproof and durable as day 1.

On the other hand, I've had to return an Alpha AR twice. First time, the stitching over the hem cinch cord simply ripped when pulling the cord, and second time, I noticed abrasion holes on the bottom of the hem. Sent it off to Arceryx, first time repaired no problems second time, they insisted I had been using an overly heavy rucksack and it was my fault even though the damage was on the hem which was tucked under. I persisted with them to the point of it going back to Gore (after 10 months!) who then told me that some Arcteryx batches had had reports of un-normal (is that a word?) abrasion holes appearing. They couldn't decide if it was the material supplied from them to Arcteryx or the manufacturing process.

Gore replaced it with a new jacket as Arcteryx had the material supplied from them and absolutely refused point blank to take responsibility. I immediately sold it and bought an ME one. I have also had to send back a Beta AR jacket 2 years ago which they immediately refunded me the money for with a simple line saying the jacket was not fit for purpose.

Arcteryx told me the jacket should be durable but durability depends on what you are doing. They didnt expect me to be climbing etc with my Alpha AR as they suggested it was a lightweight waterproof for hiking. I like Arcteryx kit but I don't really like modern lightweight materials. An outdoor jacket doesn't need to weigh the same as a gnats bollocks and I never feel "bombproof" in pro shell so I'm glad I've looked after my old shell.

None of this helps you of course but going through the Arcteryx warranty process is a complete mare and if they decide it is user error then you won't get anywhere. My personal opinion is that I certainly wouldn't climb in an Alpha AR jacket as to be honest, I'd expect it to rip or become damaged at some point.

Ask Toby, he has probably tested more proshell in winter than most.

Den
Post edited at 19:38
Chris Huntington - on 27 Nov 2016
In reply to Denni:
That's is useful actually mate.

I think reading everything most people have said I've done a bit of U turn again.

The Alpa AR is advertised doing gnarly winter climbs, ice climbing, rock climbing and is described as 'burly' it shouldn't tear up on its 4th climb in my opinion. I'm going to write in to them myself and send it backwards some people have suggested. It's worth a try.

FYI I really appreciate everyone's advice- except the guy who said 'would I send a car back if I scratched it'- if I scratch my car mate, it doesn't compromise what the car is there to do. My jacket isn't water/wind proof anymore
Post edited at 21:35
Ridge - on 27 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:


> The Alpa AR is advertised doing gnarly winter climbs, ice climbing, rock climbing and is described as 'burly' it shouldn't tear up on its 4th climb in my opinion. I'm going to write in to them myself and send it backwards some people have suggested. It's worth a try.

I think Crux described some of their kit as 'bombproof', and the BMC 1:40000 Map of the Lakes was claimed in a UKC review to be 'virtually indestructible'. Total nonsense when you think about it. Not really sure how you'd prove something wasn't 'burly'.

At the end of the day it's a very thin bit of nylon with a molecule thick membrane on it. Sadly you pay a lot of dosh for a label. I bought Mrs Ridge an Acteryx fleece for christmas once. Bobbled and abraided badly the first time she wore it. She now wears Aldi and Alpkit as they're better value.

By all means complain though. Problem is, it is wear and tear.

Timmd on 27 Nov 2016
In reply to Jenny C:
> Sorry but it sounds like fair wear and tear to me. Yes incredibly frustrating on such an expensive jacket, but unfortunately modern lightweight fabrics are nowhere near as durable to abrasion as the materials we had 20 years ago.

> I must admit £75 for a repair does sound steep, but I suspect that Arc'teryx will be doing rather more than just gluing a patch over the damage and it will be done to a very high standard.

Do you know of any material out there which is vaguely close to how abrasion resistant jackets were 15 to 20 years ago?

Thanks
Post edited at 22:30
bouldery bits - on 27 Nov 2016
In reply to Ridge:

> I think Crux described some of their kit as 'bombproof', and the BMC 1:40000 Map of the Lakes was claimed in a UKC review to be 'virtually indestructible'. Total nonsense when you think about it. Not really sure how you'd prove something wasn't 'burly'

That lakes Map is pretty good but you do get some rubbing off of print on the creases.

I'm hoping to buy my first item of crux kit in the not too distant future, partially because of the 'bombproof' reputation.

All kit has a limit, but if a jacket is described as burly you'd expect it to cope with a bit of rock climbing. I hope arcteryx sort this out for the OP. Sounds like he got a bit unlucky.

marsbar - on 27 Nov 2016
In reply to Timmd:

I think I'm going to buy an old style jacket off eBay if mine gives up.
Aonach on 27 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:
Its up to you.
You could make an undignified fuss about it and maybe bully an underpaid customer service person into giving you a new one. You could even say 'its not fit for purpose'.
Thing is you poked a hole in it.
Might just be better to take it on the chin, put a couple of bits of tenacious tape on it and move on.
L TheAtrociousSnowman on 27 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

Crux:

The two jackets which feature the heaviest material are indeed durable and hold the DWR well as they have a smooth fabric. The lighter eVent (used in the women's Torq, and probably the men's version) is not so durable and has a textured, ripstop fabric. Both of the heavy jackets have a smaller 'face', for want of a better term, which means that you may not be able to put the collar up and the hood down (cycling?) at the same time. I presume they are still made in Canada, which isn't reflected in the price.
Denni on 27 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:
It's not only Arcteryx kit. My Rab Alpine lite pullover, think thats what it is called, looked like a bobbled mess after 3 days climbing. All I did was wear slings with crabs and a climbing sack and honestly,the chest was nearly totally wrecked after 3 days.

RAB said they'd send a replacement if they decided it was from manufacturing problems so I sent it in with a receipt only 10 days old and they sent me a note back saying normal wear and tear!

I'd get it repaired probably via Arcteryx as they will do a good job and then invest in something older, cheaper and heavier despite that not being fashionable but it works! Something like an old ME Karakorum or an old TNF Mountain jacket, great bits of kit.
Post edited at 23:37
Jim C - on 28 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

I can't be bothered looking after 'things' so I don't buy really expensive gear or cars etc.
I just buy something that will do the job for a short to medium timescale , and occasionally, I will buy something cheap, that has a charmed life, and lasts far longer than I could have hoped, and yes, occasionally I will trash something I have just bought ( and shrug)



BnB - on 28 Nov 2016
In reply to Chris Huntington:

I tore some holes in my "bombproof" ME Tupilak in similar circumstances. The fabric got caught between the rock and my phone and compromised the pocket holding the phone. Similar spec to the AR with a split of 80 and 40 grade fabrics. The 40 simply doesn't cut the mustard for the rough stuff.

I taped the damage and the jacket kept its integrity weather-wise but I lost some enjoyment of the garment in the trauma. Have some sympathy
deepsoup - on 28 Nov 2016
In reply to Aonach:
The OP didn't get much change from 500 quid for a jacket; it's hardly his fault if the customer service person is underpaid.

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