UKC

28 years ago, when I actually could climb a bit, I decided to do 100 solos in a day and chose Burbage as the venue. Getting towards the end of the day I ticked off a nice little boulder problem at HVS called "the Penultimate". Now I have found out that it is an E1. The problem is that I had determined to get back into climbing with the goal of leading an extreme, a grade that I never led when I did climb. I feel a little demotivated now. Is it really E1, didn't feel that way. any suggestions for new target?

In reply to bleddynmawr:
Don't fret. Just pick some proper E1s to go for, rather than one that most people climb as a boulder problem

edit for fun Peak based suggestions: Tippler; Dark Continent; Dead Banana Crack; Dexterity; Embankment 4; Debauchery; Left Unconquerable; The Link; Sirplum; Long Tall Sally.

In reply to bleddynmawr:
There are loads of E1 solos that feel just like The Penultimate. For that one, you have to do a delicate 5b move and if you fluff it you'll probably need some help getting back to the car - that's pretty standard for grit E1 5b.

If you like that kind of thing, do The Irrepressible Urge (E1 5b). Way better, and feels more like E1 (it could have been called "The Irreversible Press").

Edit: by the way, this isn't really intended as a suggestion for a "good first grit E1" - it's a high buzz-factor solo. It's just that it's the proper E1 version of The Penultimate. There are a zillion lists of good, soft, well-protected, classic, blah blah E1s already.

In reply to bleddynmawr:

That's one I did a few times, back when I had rubber ankles rather than a mat. HVS seemed about right back then, just as it did fir Banana Finger, or the Rusty Wall or Pedlar routes on Stanage.

Don't be demotivated by the fact that you no longer have a first E1 as a target, cos if it wasn't E1 at the time, and you didn't believe it was an E1 when you were doing it, then don't count it as such. Climbing is all about psychology, so you didn't have the E1 fear factor !

Pick a longer route as your target - Long Tall Sally or Left Unconquerable

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Agreed, I bouldered out the Penultimate long before I'd climbed any proper E1's.
Irrepressible urge is definitely way scarier.

Long Tall Sally is prob safer, more sustained. Millwheel wall is a little spicy above the ledge.

OP, don't get disheartened because the grades have changed, just look for something else that you like the look of.

In reply to bleddynmawr:


The problem with picking a trad grade as a target is that it inevitably leads to a paradox. To get to E1, or any grade, you need to progress through the lower grades. But that means, at some point, you will lead something that is borderline E1 (E0 in UKC parlance), and then of course you'll be wondering whether you really did lead an E1, or not.

Alternatively, you could pick something that is definitively, undisputedly, E1 ( Like Left Unconquerable ) - but for that to be your first E1 you'd need to avoid a whole load of other climbs that are borderline.

If you just state your aim is to climb Left Unconquerable, or similar, then you don't have this problem.

In reply to bleddynmawr:
Select a portfolio of several 'proper' 3 star E1s with a range of styles and aim to complete that. For the Peak

Tower Crack (chimney)
Trident (pod)
L'Horla (sustained)
Sirplum (overhang + limestone)
Goliath's Groove (groove/corner)
Great Buttress Arete (arete)
Easter Rib (rib)
Fringe Benefit (slab)
Gomorrah (finger crack)

In reply to bleddynmawr:


If the motivation is one grade harder than you've done before, then it's got to be E2 hasn't it? Obviously you can do loads of classic lower grade routes on the way.

In reply to Removed User:


Still HVS last time I checked -- apart from the people who've told me it's good solid VS, of course. Were you perhaps meaning to type something else?

In reply to Oliver Houston:


I had an amusing experience on Millwheel Wall. For some reason I'd had it in my head for years that it was a solo, there wasn't any gear, so I soloed it onsight (leading E2 at a push at the time) finding along the way that there was actually plenty of gear. Fun though!

In reply to slab_happy:

No - you are correct. Let's swap it out for L'Horla. Long Tall Sally is too soft.

In reply to Removed User:

Half that list are HVS aren't they ?

In reply to Jon Stewart:

What's the gear on it? It's a long time since I've been on it, but the only thing I can think off would be micro-cams.

When I first did that route, I hand-placed a tied-off lost arrow in a small horizontal crack at the crux, because it was the only thing I could think of that would fit. The peg fell out as I did the move across ...

In reply to Rob Parsons: Not led it but I remember when seconding it many years ago (before micro friends) that MWW was definitely a climb for thin fingers - not mine

In reply to bleddynmawr: Every time a new guidebook comes out, you may find that you were a better climber than you thought - upgrades always seem to be happening more than downgrades.

I too soloed The Penultimate when it was HVS, seemed ok at the time at that grade. Personally, I go by the grade around the time I did the route (e.g. if it was upgraded the following year then I'd take that upgrade, but if it was upgraded 10 years later then I wouldn't). However, this is of course only for my personal (dis-)satisfaction and doesn't really mean anything in the wider scheme of things.

Don't be demotivated, plenty more to aim at.

In reply to Rob Parsons:


Yep, microcams in little slots.

In reply to ChrisBrooke:

Sirplum? Fingers crossed no holds break off

In reply to Bulls Crack:

I don't think those were soloing suggestions!

In reply to Michael Gordon:

Oh I see!

In reply to Rob Parsons:


IIRC there were there were 2 C4s above the ledge (small, but not really micro), then a tiny micro post crux, probably a bit shallow, but not terrible.

In reply to bleddynmawr:

Well the grades of 28 years ago are definitely not the same as those of today. Grade inflation has seen to that.

You could use an old guide book from back then for the proper grades. Or... if you want to really climb an extreme you need to do an E2 or harder as E1 is only Mild XS. How about that for a new target?

In reply to stp:

Many thanks for your helpful responses. I do like the idea of getting historically better as grades are inflated, but I will pick a specific climb that was E1 in the old guids and go for that.

In reply to bleddynmawr:
Wuthering at Stanage is given E2 nowadays for some reason but you can still think of it as a reasonable E1.

My first two E leads are now E2 & E3 but I'm not complaining.

In reply to Michael Hood:

If I remember correctly, Wuthering is quite height-dependent. The short of stature might have fun getting onto the face. Once on it, I agree it's reasonable - but only if you're reasonably tall. Every move was a not easily reversible udge for me, whereas my second could stand in each break and easily reach the next without any commitment.

My single piece of pro on the face was a wrong-sized wire - we didn't carry so much gear in those days! So fluffing the top moves might have resulted in a Desmond (Dekker). Maybe you can get small cams in now??

Surely the default early E1 on grit is Left Unconquerable - where the situation is much more easily assessed and commitment usually results in gloriously juggy triumph.

Mick