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I'm currently in the early stages of arranging a charity (Menigitis Research Foundation) event, me and 12 of my mates are walking up and down snowdon, cycling 30 miles, running 10 miles to Cadair Idris and walking up and down that all writhin the daylight of 1 day. Next summer.
I wondered if anyone on here could help me with deciding the routes up and down each mountain? Concidering the start and end location and where we're going after etc. (as well as roads between mountains but that's another subject)
We're short on daylight as we initially think it will take around 14 hours ish in total so want it to be a quick route to the summit of each mountain. We want to come down the South side of snowdon and up the North of Cadair so reduce mileage in between.
Any other thoughts, advice, do's and don't very welcome!! We'all have a medic and support vehicles presant! And obviously we're all fit! Just new to mountains!
Thanks very much in advance!
Post edited at 15:12
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In reply to SeanDT:
>" a charity event" "Just new to mountains!"
Two phrases that just shouldn't be used together!
Shakes head
>" a charity event" "Just new to mountains!"
Two phrases that just shouldn't be used together!
Shakes head
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In reply to exiled_northerner:
We'll be walking the routes prior to the event. And organising well!
Last year we done a 50 mile triathlon for charity and raised really good money for a great cause. I'm sure, '15 miles down a river' 'half marathon' and a '21 mile cycle' (on the same day) and 'charity event' are phrases that shouldn't be used together as well. But they were, and it went very well! And we were new to rivers and cycling then too!
We'll be walking the routes prior to the event. And organising well!
Last year we done a 50 mile triathlon for charity and raised really good money for a great cause. I'm sure, '15 miles down a river' 'half marathon' and a '21 mile cycle' (on the same day) and 'charity event' are phrases that shouldn't be used together as well. But they were, and it went very well! And we were new to rivers and cycling then too!
Post edited at 15:39
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In reply to SeanDT:
>" a charity event" "Just new to mountains!"
Two phrases that just shouldn't be used together!
Sorry if I'm tarring you with same brush, but I'm just think of all those unnecessary MRT call outs that involve charity events. No disrespect, but the mountains offer some different challenges to running a half-marathon or riding a bike on the road -- navigation, route finding, terrain, underfoot conditions, weather etc
Just saying!
>" a charity event" "Just new to mountains!"
Two phrases that just shouldn't be used together!
Sorry if I'm tarring you with same brush, but I'm just think of all those unnecessary MRT call outs that involve charity events. No disrespect, but the mountains offer some different challenges to running a half-marathon or riding a bike on the road -- navigation, route finding, terrain, underfoot conditions, weather etc
Just saying!
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In reply to exiled_northerner:
Yeah I understand and thanks. Were not just a bunch of tourists and we're not completely naive to these dangers. That's why we'll have a fully qualified medic and support team with us and we're researching all aspects now.
Yeah I understand and thanks. Were not just a bunch of tourists and we're not completely naive to these dangers. That's why we'll have a fully qualified medic and support team with us and we're researching all aspects now.
Post edited at 16:45
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In reply to GrahamD:
Hi, yes but rough distances currently as we haven't yet planned the route. We're hoping to walk up the mountains, cycle and run the ground between them on roads.
Hi, yes but rough distances currently as we haven't yet planned the route. We're hoping to walk up the mountains, cycle and run the ground between them on roads.
In reply to SeanDT:
About 12 (or more) years ago a small group of us called the "gentlemen fell runners" did something similar, for fun not charity. We started on bikes at Llanberris (following full breakfast at Pete's eats), cycle to penypass, run/walk up Snowdon and down other side (bikes go round in support vehicle). Cycle to Barmouth for chips and ice cream, on to Cadair idris and run up one side and down the other. Cycle to Llangurig for overnight in Blue Bell inn.
Day 2 we cycled and ran Pumlumon, cycled to my house near Llanidloes for whisky tasting and then cycle down to Pen Y fan and ran that. I missed some of the cycling as only bought a bike 2 weeks before!
Then we went to the pub.
About 12 (or more) years ago a small group of us called the "gentlemen fell runners" did something similar, for fun not charity. We started on bikes at Llanberris (following full breakfast at Pete's eats), cycle to penypass, run/walk up Snowdon and down other side (bikes go round in support vehicle). Cycle to Barmouth for chips and ice cream, on to Cadair idris and run up one side and down the other. Cycle to Llangurig for overnight in Blue Bell inn.
Day 2 we cycled and ran Pumlumon, cycled to my house near Llanidloes for whisky tasting and then cycle down to Pen Y fan and ran that. I missed some of the cycling as only bought a bike 2 weeks before!
Then we went to the pub.
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In reply to SeanDT:
Thinking about this, to go from the South I'd chose the Rhyd Ddu path up and down as its a nice steady gradient. To cycle from there (avoiding much climbing and the A470(T), you would go Beddgelert, Garreg, Harlech, Barmouth and dismount at Dollgellau (ok more like 35 miles) then contrive a 10mile run to the Pony path, then up and down that. Foxes would be shorter but its steep and a bit unpleasent under foot - up Foxes down Pony works OK though.
Thinking about this, to go from the South I'd chose the Rhyd Ddu path up and down as its a nice steady gradient. To cycle from there (avoiding much climbing and the A470(T), you would go Beddgelert, Garreg, Harlech, Barmouth and dismount at Dollgellau (ok more like 35 miles) then contrive a 10mile run to the Pony path, then up and down that. Foxes would be shorter but its steep and a bit unpleasent under foot - up Foxes down Pony works OK though.
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In reply to Moley:
I like your style!
What routes up Snowdon and Cadair?
Can you remember how long it took you from the point you got to the foot of Snowdon before going up it, to the point you got to the foot of cadair after you went up? This will give me a rough total time for our event!!! Thanks very much!!
I like your style!
What routes up Snowdon and Cadair?
Can you remember how long it took you from the point you got to the foot of Snowdon before going up it, to the point you got to the foot of cadair after you went up? This will give me a rough total time for our event!!! Thanks very much!!
Post edited at 17:18
In reply to GrahamD:
Thanks Graham that's really useful information! Much appreciated!!
If we chose Rhyd Ddu to come down on the south side, could we go up another route? No thanks essential but would make things more interesting.
Thanks Graham that's really useful information! Much appreciated!!
If we chose Rhyd Ddu to come down on the south side, could we go up another route? No thanks essential but would make things more interesting.
Post edited at 17:21
In reply to SeanDT:
Pen-Y-Pass to Barmouth is 31 miles and will give you the quickest ascent / descent route for Snowdon. From Barmouth you can cross on the railway / pedestrian bridge and run along the disused railway to Dolgellau (which is 9 miles) and up the hill to the start of Pony track. Up Cadair and down other side to finish at the pub by the Tal-y-llyn lake.
Pen-Y-Pass to Barmouth is 31 miles and will give you the quickest ascent / descent route for Snowdon. From Barmouth you can cross on the railway / pedestrian bridge and run along the disused railway to Dolgellau (which is 9 miles) and up the hill to the start of Pony track. Up Cadair and down other side to finish at the pub by the Tal-y-llyn lake.
Post edited at 17:39
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In reply to SeanDT:
If you are supported, you could take the shorter and more spectacular ascent from the North, up the Pyg Track and down to Rhyd Ddu (but doing this take care to actually find the top of Rhyd DDu) to meet up with your support team.
If you are supported, you could take the shorter and more spectacular ascent from the North, up the Pyg Track and down to Rhyd Ddu (but doing this take care to actually find the top of Rhyd DDu) to meet up with your support team.
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In reply to SeanDT:
Glad you got some helpful answers in the end. It's a shame that some people were jumping to conclusions about your organisation skills and common sense. There are thousands of well prepared, successful charity events for every badly planned one that ends up causing problems.
If you go around late June you will have at least 16 hrs of daylight if you set off at 6am.
Well done for thinking of your own challenge, asking advice and raising money for a very worthwhile cause.
Glad you got some helpful answers in the end. It's a shame that some people were jumping to conclusions about your organisation skills and common sense. There are thousands of well prepared, successful charity events for every badly planned one that ends up causing problems.
If you go around late June you will have at least 16 hrs of daylight if you set off at 6am.
Well done for thinking of your own challenge, asking advice and raising money for a very worthwhile cause.
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In reply to SeanDT:
I went up Snowdon from pen y pass last week in less than 4 hrs for the return. This was a quickish pace and I didn't stop except for a few quick picture breaks. Given your long day out I think an estimate of 5 hrs each for the hills, 3 hrs to cycle 30 odd miles and two hours to run 9 or 10 miles gives you 15 hours with enough time for food breaks built in.
If you do set off at 6am, you will have another hour to play with in case if delays. This sounds like a long tiring day out for most people (it would be for me) but should be achievable by a fit and determined team.
Do make sure you all have head torches and emergency supplies for cader idris, this has got to be the point where problems could occur. I would recommend doing cader as a training trip and checking the route up, and especially down, just in case you do end up doing part if it in the dark.
I went up Snowdon from pen y pass last week in less than 4 hrs for the return. This was a quickish pace and I didn't stop except for a few quick picture breaks. Given your long day out I think an estimate of 5 hrs each for the hills, 3 hrs to cycle 30 odd miles and two hours to run 9 or 10 miles gives you 15 hours with enough time for food breaks built in.
If you do set off at 6am, you will have another hour to play with in case if delays. This sounds like a long tiring day out for most people (it would be for me) but should be achievable by a fit and determined team.
Do make sure you all have head torches and emergency supplies for cader idris, this has got to be the point where problems could occur. I would recommend doing cader as a training trip and checking the route up, and especially down, just in case you do end up doing part if it in the dark.
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In reply to mountain.martin:
Great stuff Martin! This is all the sort of info I hoped to read! Well worth posting here! Really useful!
Great stuff Martin! This is all the sort of info I hoped to read! Well worth posting here! Really useful!
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In reply to SeanDT:
Honestly can't remember times, it was written up in fell runner magazine afterwards, the full title was "The gentlemen fell runners running, cycling and epicurean adventure." Some years ago.
I was pretty slow on the bike, only having been riding 2 weeks ( no clip on shoes or anything), but the others stuck me in the middle and we trundled along.
It was just a bit of fun and excuse for mates to have an adventure and beers.
> I like your style!
> What routes up Snowdon and Cadair?
> Can you remember how long it took you from the point you got to the foot of Snowdon before going up it, to the point you got to the foot of cadair after you went up? This will give me a rough total time for our event!!! Thanks very much!!
Honestly can't remember times, it was written up in fell runner magazine afterwards, the full title was "The gentlemen fell runners running, cycling and epicurean adventure." Some years ago.
I was pretty slow on the bike, only having been riding 2 weeks ( no clip on shoes or anything), but the others stuck me in the middle and we trundled along.
It was just a bit of fun and excuse for mates to have an adventure and beers.
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In reply to Moley:
Just read the article in the WFRA. What a bloody great event! Some distance too! Really good read and I've sent the link to the other guys so they can read 👍
Just read the article in the WFRA. What a bloody great event! Some distance too! Really good read and I've sent the link to the other guys so they can read 👍
In reply to mountain.martin:
...and not for Snowdon? What's the difference?
If you need to dole out or receive advice like this then something is lacking in your hillcraft
> Do make sure you all have head torches and emergency supplies for cader idris,
...and not for Snowdon? What's the difference?
If you need to dole out or receive advice like this then something is lacking in your hillcraft
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In reply to exiled_northerner:
Are we trying to pick holes, or is it perhaps better /nicer/ more helpful to offer some advice?
The big difference is that when setting off to walk up Snowdon early in the morning they will have 16 hours of daylight, and I assume will be well rested and have just eaten breakfast. Therefore if it was me I wouldn't carry a head torch, and while I would carry some food and warm clothes, I wouldn't take nearly the same amount as I would if setting off up cader at 5pm when I've already been on the go for 10 + hours.
Are we trying to pick holes, or is it perhaps better /nicer/ more helpful to offer some advice?
The big difference is that when setting off to walk up Snowdon early in the morning they will have 16 hours of daylight, and I assume will be well rested and have just eaten breakfast. Therefore if it was me I wouldn't carry a head torch, and while I would carry some food and warm clothes, I wouldn't take nearly the same amount as I would if setting off up cader at 5pm when I've already been on the go for 10 + hours.
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In reply to exiled_northerner:
I just posted a reply to this but mountain.martin put it much better than me so I'll just agree with him instead
> ...and not for Snowdon? What's the difference?
I just posted a reply to this but mountain.martin put it much better than me so I'll just agree with him instead
Post edited at 21:16
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In reply to mountain.martin:
okay ... understand headtorch bit, but apart from food and warm clothes what else is inside your bag?
I'm just curious as to why someone who admits to no mountain experience is seeking advice on this kind of forum.
Beware, you may think that I'm a lurking troll/spoiler but there are many anonymous keyboard warriors proffering advice from a position of little experience. (Synopsis of my CV before I get ploughed into -- Winter/Summer ML, MRT member, 30 years plus experience, successful BGR, BC MTB L2 Trail Leader, BCU 4* sea kayaker) ...loved the Gentlemen Fell Runners article.
Not against people going out and having fun, challenging themselves, pushing their boundaries etc. I guess it was just the "new to" /"charity " combo that piqued my interest.
Shakes your hand and wishes you luck
okay ... understand headtorch bit, but apart from food and warm clothes what else is inside your bag?
I'm just curious as to why someone who admits to no mountain experience is seeking advice on this kind of forum.
Beware, you may think that I'm a lurking troll/spoiler but there are many anonymous keyboard warriors proffering advice from a position of little experience. (Synopsis of my CV before I get ploughed into -- Winter/Summer ML, MRT member, 30 years plus experience, successful BGR, BC MTB L2 Trail Leader, BCU 4* sea kayaker) ...loved the Gentlemen Fell Runners article.
Not against people going out and having fun, challenging themselves, pushing their boundaries etc. I guess it was just the "new to" /"charity " combo that piqued my interest.
Shakes your hand and wishes you luck
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In reply to exiled_northerner:
It seems you are still trying to pick holes/an argument rather than offer any advice yourself.
I wanted to offer some advice, I didn't have time to plan their whole day for them, the key advice I thought most important was the advice I offered on ascending cader at the end of the day.
If you want to offer advice on all items they should take on all the legs of their trip I'm sure that would be appreciated.
Not sure if that was for me or the op. If me I'm sure I would shake your hand if I met you.
Best wishes.
> okay ... understand headtorch bit, but apart from food and warm clothes what else is inside your bag?
It seems you are still trying to pick holes/an argument rather than offer any advice yourself.
I wanted to offer some advice, I didn't have time to plan their whole day for them, the key advice I thought most important was the advice I offered on ascending cader at the end of the day.
If you want to offer advice on all items they should take on all the legs of their trip I'm sure that would be appreciated.
> Shakes your hand and wishes you luck
Not sure if that was for me or the op. If me I'm sure I would shake your hand if I met you.
Best wishes.
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In reply to exiled_northerner:
Your comment:
"I'm just curious as to why someone who admits to no mountain experience is seeking advice on this kind of forum."
Sorry am I missing something here? Check the thread and my replies!! That should answer your question. Some people really being helpful and offering some great advice, routes etc. Well worth asking advice on this forum!
Northerner, I'm not a muppet mate! I walked up Snowdon when I was 9! I think I'll manage it now!
Less of your negativity please!
A lot of these comments I obviously already know but they're helpful all the same, concreting my thoughts etc. I'm not looking for someone to plan our day, I can manage that. But these suggestions really do help! Thanks all
Your comment:
"I'm just curious as to why someone who admits to no mountain experience is seeking advice on this kind of forum."
Sorry am I missing something here? Check the thread and my replies!! That should answer your question. Some people really being helpful and offering some great advice, routes etc. Well worth asking advice on this forum!
Northerner, I'm not a muppet mate! I walked up Snowdon when I was 9! I think I'll manage it now!
Less of your negativity please!
A lot of these comments I obviously already know but they're helpful all the same, concreting my thoughts etc. I'm not looking for someone to plan our day, I can manage that. But these suggestions really do help! Thanks all
Post edited at 22:18
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In reply to exiled_northerner:
Because he thought he'd get some useful advice here. There's plenty of time for him to build up the experience required by June. It does not takes years to get ready for one of the walking routes up Snowdon or Cadair Idris. I'm sure the OP will cope without a canoeing qualification or a GCSE in being unhelpful. What would be useful is a list of things he could be doing between now and then to prepare. Far more useful than listing a set of quals to justify being a grumpy and negative.
> I'm just curious as to why someone who admits to no mountain experience is seeking advice on this kind of forum.
Because he thought he'd get some useful advice here. There's plenty of time for him to build up the experience required by June. It does not takes years to get ready for one of the walking routes up Snowdon or Cadair Idris. I'm sure the OP will cope without a canoeing qualification or a GCSE in being unhelpful. What would be useful is a list of things he could be doing between now and then to prepare. Far more useful than listing a set of quals to justify being a grumpy and negative.
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In reply to SeanDT:
Talking of which learning to navigate by map and compass and practicing that skill are key elements in your build up. You could do worse than getting started by booking a weekend navigation course for all of you and also use it as a team building exercise.
Talking of which learning to navigate by map and compass and practicing that skill are key elements in your build up. You could do worse than getting started by booking a weekend navigation course for all of you and also use it as a team building exercise.
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In reply to mysterion:
Blimey Captain Scarlet will be along in a minute...
> You will die. All of you.
> Turn back now, before it is too late.
Blimey Captain Scarlet will be along in a minute...
In reply to Lion Bakes:
I'll look into that.
As i'll effectively be responsible for me and 12 others, would it be advisable to just hire a guide up snowdon and Cadair? Take any worry and pressure off. Or am I be overly cautious?
I'll look into that.
As i'll effectively be responsible for me and 12 others, would it be advisable to just hire a guide up snowdon and Cadair? Take any worry and pressure off. Or am I be overly cautious?
In reply to SeanDT:
If a few of you do a dry run taking a good look around you noting slope directions, path junctions and the like then that is all the guiding you will need. On the day, if the tops are cloudy proceed with caution. Also, keep the group together.
If a few of you do a dry run taking a good look around you noting slope directions, path junctions and the like then that is all the guiding you will need. On the day, if the tops are cloudy proceed with caution. Also, keep the group together.
Post edited at 00:15
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In reply to SeanDT:
I wrote a whole reply based on " flippin heck no need for that" and then thought I'll be getting into an argument with all sorts of highly qualified mountain people about responsible/irresponsible advice.
Ummm, listen to the experts???
> I'll look into that.
> As i'll effectively be responsible for me and 12 others, would it be advisable to just hire a guide up snowdon and Cadair? Take any worry and pressure off. Or am I be overly cautious?
I wrote a whole reply based on " flippin heck no need for that" and then thought I'll be getting into an argument with all sorts of highly qualified mountain people about responsible/irresponsible advice.
Ummm, listen to the experts???
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In reply to SeanDT:
If the weather is OK and the hills are cloud free then a guide (mountain leader) would be unnecessary for most people.
Even if there are clouds on the hills, if you have done the walk in advance and one of your party is competent at map reading and mountain navigation then most people would manage fine on their own.
If you do not have anyone who can navigate in cloud and you are committed to doing the event whatever the weather, then hiring a mountain leader would be very sensible.
If the weather is OK and the hills are cloud free then a guide (mountain leader) would be unnecessary for most people.
Even if there are clouds on the hills, if you have done the walk in advance and one of your party is competent at map reading and mountain navigation then most people would manage fine on their own.
If you do not have anyone who can navigate in cloud and you are committed to doing the event whatever the weather, then hiring a mountain leader would be very sensible.
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In reply to SeanDT:
A big thank you for finding that article, not really thought about it for years and now I've just read it again. Brought back all sorts of happy ( and painfull!) memories of a great weekend with a bunch of like minded mates.
Whatever you do, try to make it fun. That's about it
> Just read the article in the WFRA. What a bloody great event! Some distance too! Really good read and I've sent the link to the other guys so they can read 👍
A big thank you for finding that article, not really thought about it for years and now I've just read it again. Brought back all sorts of happy ( and painfull!) memories of a great weekend with a bunch of like minded mates.
Whatever you do, try to make it fun. That's about it
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In reply to Moley:
Haha know what you mean! Got to tread carefully! (No pun intended)
Think I'll do each mountain with a mate who's experienced with trekking up mountains around March/April next year and judge it on that. I'm trying to get him to join us on the day but he's being a fairy.
Haha know what you mean! Got to tread carefully! (No pun intended)
Think I'll do each mountain with a mate who's experienced with trekking up mountains around March/April next year and judge it on that. I'm trying to get him to join us on the day but he's being a fairy.
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In reply to exiled_northerner:
er, because if he had lots of mountain experience then he wouldn't need to ask for advice?
The fact that he's bothered to ask well in advance (and isn't proposing something totally ridiculous) suggests to me that they'll be fine.
> I'm just curious as to why someone who admits to no mountain experience is seeking advice on this kind of forum.
er, because if he had lots of mountain experience then he wouldn't need to ask for advice?
The fact that he's bothered to ask well in advance (and isn't proposing something totally ridiculous) suggests to me that they'll be fine.
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In reply to SeanDT:
A guide up Snowdon and Cadair is way over cautious ! You said you walked up Snowdon aged 9 and that isn't unusual. These are massively popular mountains in popular areas with perfectly made paths (unless you look at Foxes) being tackled in the middle of summer. The only navigational skill you will really need is to make sure you get on the right path from the summit in both cases. If you get the chance, do the routes before hand to get a bit more familiar but also just noting down the bearings and distances from each summit to the path you choose would be a useful back up even if you carry GPS. And if in doubt on the mountain, don't be afraid to ask others ! even at the times you will be doing them you are unlikely to be alone.
Apart from a 10 mile run (I'm crap at running) this sounds like a really nice challenge. Doesn't need to be overcomplicated.
A guide up Snowdon and Cadair is way over cautious ! You said you walked up Snowdon aged 9 and that isn't unusual. These are massively popular mountains in popular areas with perfectly made paths (unless you look at Foxes) being tackled in the middle of summer. The only navigational skill you will really need is to make sure you get on the right path from the summit in both cases. If you get the chance, do the routes before hand to get a bit more familiar but also just noting down the bearings and distances from each summit to the path you choose would be a useful back up even if you carry GPS. And if in doubt on the mountain, don't be afraid to ask others ! even at the times you will be doing them you are unlikely to be alone.
Apart from a 10 mile run (I'm crap at running) this sounds like a really nice challenge. Doesn't need to be overcomplicated.
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In reply to GrahamD:
Thanks very much Graham. Yeah we're all looking forward to it! I'm sure we'll all have a great day/weekend and raise some money for a great cause that's really personal to me and my friends so it's win win. Our easily exceed-able target is £3000.
Don't want to over complicate as i know these mountains are no Kilimanjaro's but want to be confident on the day and install confidence in the other guys that we're prepared, we know where we're going at what we're doing with no hesitations (belt n braces). I'll be walking the routes early next summer in preparation. I'm sure I can get hold of a good GPS device just in case. We'll all stick together take food, water, waterproofs, warm clothes, head torches. Compass and map.
Thanks very much Graham. Yeah we're all looking forward to it! I'm sure we'll all have a great day/weekend and raise some money for a great cause that's really personal to me and my friends so it's win win. Our easily exceed-able target is £3000.
Don't want to over complicate as i know these mountains are no Kilimanjaro's but want to be confident on the day and install confidence in the other guys that we're prepared, we know where we're going at what we're doing with no hesitations (belt n braces). I'll be walking the routes early next summer in preparation. I'm sure I can get hold of a good GPS device just in case. We'll all stick together take food, water, waterproofs, warm clothes, head torches. Compass and map.
Post edited at 13:43
In reply to SeanDT:
How about you ask if your experienced mate would like to lead you on just the Snowdon and Cadair legs and you'll pay for his weekend away. He can have a pub lunch and relax whilst you lot are cycling and running between the two. Have a backup plan in case he can't make it on the day.
How about you ask if your experienced mate would like to lead you on just the Snowdon and Cadair legs and you'll pay for his weekend away. He can have a pub lunch and relax whilst you lot are cycling and running between the two. Have a backup plan in case he can't make it on the day.
Post edited at 15:09
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In reply to Lion Bakes:
Do people with any amount of savvy really need to be led on Cadair/Snowdon ? surely these are hills people cut their hill walking teeth on and these guys are planning on reccy trips in any case.
Do people with any amount of savvy really need to be led on Cadair/Snowdon ? surely these are hills people cut their hill walking teeth on and these guys are planning on reccy trips in any case.
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In reply to Lion Bakes:
Good plan Lion! he owns a company that involves mountain safety training around the beacons. I think he's the man for the job! Think he's a bit put off by the middle section. Compromise might be the answer!
Good plan Lion! he owns a company that involves mountain safety training around the beacons. I think he's the man for the job! Think he's a bit put off by the middle section. Compromise might be the answer!
In reply to GrahamD:
This is the question Graham but it's more about making damn doubly sure of the teams safety as I'll feel responsible.
I mean, I live in the deepest darkest hills of west Wales and I can make the 2 mile walk home (bar 1 time) from the local in the pitch black on a January evening after 8 pints of whatever lumpy special they have sitting on the bar at the time!
How hard can Snowdon be when sober?
This is the question Graham but it's more about making damn doubly sure of the teams safety as I'll feel responsible.
I mean, I live in the deepest darkest hills of west Wales and I can make the 2 mile walk home (bar 1 time) from the local in the pitch black on a January evening after 8 pints of whatever lumpy special they have sitting on the bar at the time!
How hard can Snowdon be when sober?
Post edited at 17:02
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In reply to SeanDT:
Whilst exiled_northerner is over-doing it a little, what I do find a bit frustrating about posts like these is that they are so open-ended in their nature that it is clear that the enquirer has put very little effort into actually researching the challenge themselves, and is just seeking answers on a plate from the forum community.
I remember many years ago I researched, planned, and led a group of 8 over the Welsh 3000s (including leading training/reccy weekends) - this was before such times that online forums had become ubiquitous. It was doing the 'leg-work' myself which gave me the confidence that I could lead lead the group, whatever the situation (in the event, we had thick mist on the Carneddau, and crossed Crib Goch in the dark, but completed successfully, achieving what, for all of us, was one of the best days of our lives).
When you ask questions like 'what route should we take up the mountain' or 'should we hire a guide' you give the appearance, rightly or wrongly, to have done no research, and have little idea of what you're doing, thus inviting comments from the likes of exiled_northerner and myself!
For what it's worth:
No, don't hire a guide, in summer that's massive overkill.
Going up and down the PyG track from Pen y Pass should take you around 3 hours (from personal experience taking an average group up that route on a 3 Peaks Challenge).
From Pen y Pass to Barmouth it's 32 miles, mostly downhill or flat. If you are all fit, and on road bikes, then 2 hours should be plenty to do this.
Barmouth to the Craig y Castell car park is 8 miles. Should be able to run that in an hour. Maybe 1h15m for contingency/faffing.
Then up the Pony Path to Penygadair. Been years since I've done it, but it looks like it's around 8km return, and climbing 700m, so that's under 3 hours up and down according to Naismith.
Allow 30 minutes each for food at Pen y Pass and Craig y Castell.
That gives you a total time of 10h15m, so in summer you'll have plenty of daylight to play with.
Hope that's helpful. but you really should be able to work that out yourself imho.
Whilst exiled_northerner is over-doing it a little, what I do find a bit frustrating about posts like these is that they are so open-ended in their nature that it is clear that the enquirer has put very little effort into actually researching the challenge themselves, and is just seeking answers on a plate from the forum community.
I remember many years ago I researched, planned, and led a group of 8 over the Welsh 3000s (including leading training/reccy weekends) - this was before such times that online forums had become ubiquitous. It was doing the 'leg-work' myself which gave me the confidence that I could lead lead the group, whatever the situation (in the event, we had thick mist on the Carneddau, and crossed Crib Goch in the dark, but completed successfully, achieving what, for all of us, was one of the best days of our lives).
When you ask questions like 'what route should we take up the mountain' or 'should we hire a guide' you give the appearance, rightly or wrongly, to have done no research, and have little idea of what you're doing, thus inviting comments from the likes of exiled_northerner and myself!
For what it's worth:
No, don't hire a guide, in summer that's massive overkill.
Going up and down the PyG track from Pen y Pass should take you around 3 hours (from personal experience taking an average group up that route on a 3 Peaks Challenge).
From Pen y Pass to Barmouth it's 32 miles, mostly downhill or flat. If you are all fit, and on road bikes, then 2 hours should be plenty to do this.
Barmouth to the Craig y Castell car park is 8 miles. Should be able to run that in an hour. Maybe 1h15m for contingency/faffing.
Then up the Pony Path to Penygadair. Been years since I've done it, but it looks like it's around 8km return, and climbing 700m, so that's under 3 hours up and down according to Naismith.
Allow 30 minutes each for food at Pen y Pass and Craig y Castell.
That gives you a total time of 10h15m, so in summer you'll have plenty of daylight to play with.
Hope that's helpful. but you really should be able to work that out yourself imho.
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In reply to GrahamD:
Yes, but is it the best use of everyone's time? I just believe you should think before you type.
Consider - if I google 'Routes up Cadair Idris from the North', I get several reputable websites pointing me towards the Pony Path, with route description, maps, distance, ascent, and a time estimate. Now it's a much better route guide than you'd get from a forum response.
Had he googled that question, and then compared 2 websites, he would have found different views on how long the route would take. I would suggest that asking the community of experts and enthusiasts on this forum which was the better estimate for the Pony path is a far better use of everyone's time (including his) than 'which way should I go up Cadair'
Yes, but is it the best use of everyone's time? I just believe you should think before you type.
Consider - if I google 'Routes up Cadair Idris from the North', I get several reputable websites pointing me towards the Pony Path, with route description, maps, distance, ascent, and a time estimate. Now it's a much better route guide than you'd get from a forum response.
Had he googled that question, and then compared 2 websites, he would have found different views on how long the route would take. I would suggest that asking the community of experts and enthusiasts on this forum which was the better estimate for the Pony path is a far better use of everyone's time (including his) than 'which way should I go up Cadair'
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In reply to GrahamD:
Possibly, but I think as HTPumulmon points out it gives the impression of being very lazy and having "put very little effort into actually researching the challenge themselves, and is just seeking answers on a plate from the forum community."
It's symptomatic of a millennial culture with the of wanting answers immediately at the touch of a button, not wanting to do the leg work and expecting too many short cuts.
I'm not saying that the easy availability of information through the internet and other media is a bad thing, but what I think it's resulted is people coming into all sorts of outdoor sports without having served an "apprenticeship" and expecting to be able to undertake things like "The Three Peaks", climb a 3000'er as a first peak, or spend a night in Priest's Hole because it was on the BBC.
It might sound a little elitist, but I remember joining my first mountaineering club as a teenager back in the late 70's and having to serve that kind of apprenticeship, gaining the respect of other members and proving your worth to be let in on the secrets of the best routes, shortcuts, where the good bothies are etc., whereas nowadays it's all available too easily.
> Isn't asking on a forum "doing research" ?
Possibly, but I think as HTPumulmon points out it gives the impression of being very lazy and having "put very little effort into actually researching the challenge themselves, and is just seeking answers on a plate from the forum community."
It's symptomatic of a millennial culture with the of wanting answers immediately at the touch of a button, not wanting to do the leg work and expecting too many short cuts.
I'm not saying that the easy availability of information through the internet and other media is a bad thing, but what I think it's resulted is people coming into all sorts of outdoor sports without having served an "apprenticeship" and expecting to be able to undertake things like "The Three Peaks", climb a 3000'er as a first peak, or spend a night in Priest's Hole because it was on the BBC.
It might sound a little elitist, but I remember joining my first mountaineering club as a teenager back in the late 70's and having to serve that kind of apprenticeship, gaining the respect of other members and proving your worth to be let in on the secrets of the best routes, shortcuts, where the good bothies are etc., whereas nowadays it's all available too easily.
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In reply to exiled_northerner:
Thanks again Northerner and thanks HT your info was helpful. bottom line is that I knew little about these peaks and I don't sit here typing bull**** so you think I do. I've googled alsorts for days and found loads of useful info, I've spoken to friends in the MRT and I've spoken to a couple of friends who are mountain leaders. I've visited the area and driven the route between the peaks, I'll be climbing both peaks when I warms up a bit (I've not done an aprentiship so I'll freeze in these conditions). As a group we'll all be training to ensure physical fitness. We have a date booked next year to meet with the mountain leaders in a pub with my 12 mates so we can start preparations for all aventuallities up the mountains, even though we now have 2 leaders joining us up the peaks (they were more than keen to help out and take any pressure off us if the weather turns)
So, yes! This is part of research!!!!
The info people have given me on this thread has been useful and it was well worth while as part of my research but I didn't just type this here then pack my bags and go.
4 years ago I rowed from Ireland to Wales in 25 hours, knew little about the sea when I started research, posted on a few yaughting forums, very helpful although that's not all I done to prep. The event went well and we lived and loved it while raising a shed load of cash for a great cause.
Last year it was a 50 mile triathlon, again we researched, we lived and we loved it.
Who knows what event 2018 holds, all I hope is that when I post on a forum they're as helpful as most of you have been.
Thanks again Northerner and thanks HT your info was helpful. bottom line is that I knew little about these peaks and I don't sit here typing bull**** so you think I do. I've googled alsorts for days and found loads of useful info, I've spoken to friends in the MRT and I've spoken to a couple of friends who are mountain leaders. I've visited the area and driven the route between the peaks, I'll be climbing both peaks when I warms up a bit (I've not done an aprentiship so I'll freeze in these conditions). As a group we'll all be training to ensure physical fitness. We have a date booked next year to meet with the mountain leaders in a pub with my 12 mates so we can start preparations for all aventuallities up the mountains, even though we now have 2 leaders joining us up the peaks (they were more than keen to help out and take any pressure off us if the weather turns)
So, yes! This is part of research!!!!
The info people have given me on this thread has been useful and it was well worth while as part of my research but I didn't just type this here then pack my bags and go.
4 years ago I rowed from Ireland to Wales in 25 hours, knew little about the sea when I started research, posted on a few yaughting forums, very helpful although that's not all I done to prep. The event went well and we lived and loved it while raising a shed load of cash for a great cause.
Last year it was a 50 mile triathlon, again we researched, we lived and we loved it.
Who knows what event 2018 holds, all I hope is that when I post on a forum they're as helpful as most of you have been.
Post edited at 21:36
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In reply to HTPumlumon:
Great information at the end of your comment! Thanks very much! I appreciate what your saying at the start of your comment but I do think that you've misunderstood a little. I didn't come on this website for someone to plan my day for me. I came for some suggestions, discussions, advise and whatever other light hearted information people throw at me as I thought it may help. And it has. Little confused as to why you seem to want me to do more work for my knowledge. You sound a bit like my grandad talking about 'the telephone' and how he used to have to walk for miles to have a conversation with someone.
It's a shame your frustrated by my post. And you seem angered by my lack of knowledge at this stage. This post was early in my research but I didn't realise it would anger or frustrate anyone. I thought maybe people would just be glad to help.
Great information at the end of your comment! Thanks very much! I appreciate what your saying at the start of your comment but I do think that you've misunderstood a little. I didn't come on this website for someone to plan my day for me. I came for some suggestions, discussions, advise and whatever other light hearted information people throw at me as I thought it may help. And it has. Little confused as to why you seem to want me to do more work for my knowledge. You sound a bit like my grandad talking about 'the telephone' and how he used to have to walk for miles to have a conversation with someone.
It's a shame your frustrated by my post. And you seem angered by my lack of knowledge at this stage. This post was early in my research but I didn't realise it would anger or frustrate anyone. I thought maybe people would just be glad to help.
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In reply to GrahamD:
Indeed it is, I'm in my fifties, so not one of these spring chickens, but I can understand that research is different and in most ways easier than it was 20 or 30 years ago. We should recognise this as a good thing not expect everyone to have to work as hard as we would have done in 1985.
Surely the OP has demonstrated in his subsequent posts that he is capable of organising a walk up Snowdon in the summer months?
> Isn't asking on a forum "doing research" ?
Indeed it is, I'm in my fifties, so not one of these spring chickens, but I can understand that research is different and in most ways easier than it was 20 or 30 years ago. We should recognise this as a good thing not expect everyone to have to work as hard as we would have done in 1985.
Surely the OP has demonstrated in his subsequent posts that he is capable of organising a walk up Snowdon in the summer months?
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In reply to HTPumlumon:
No way are Sean an his group doing the Pyg in 3 hours. They'd be wise to budget at least 4.
Additionally, if you want it to be interesting, I would always go up the Pyg and down the miners'.
> Going up and down the PyG track from Pen y Pass should take you around 3 hours (from personal experience taking an average group up that route on a 3 Peaks Challenge).
No way are Sean an his group doing the Pyg in 3 hours. They'd be wise to budget at least 4.
Additionally, if you want it to be interesting, I would always go up the Pyg and down the miners'.
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In reply to DiscoBoy:
Why on earth not, 3 hours is perfectly reasonable time for a fit group aiming to move quickly. If you're in your 90's then fair enough, a bit longer,
Why on earth not, 3 hours is perfectly reasonable time for a fit group aiming to move quickly. If you're in your 90's then fair enough, a bit longer,
Post edited at 21:18
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In reply to Lion Bakes:
I would say 3 hours is moving pretty fast. Doable for fit hill walkers, but seeing as this is part of a very long day out they shouldn't be going as fast as they can, they need to pace themselves.
Allowing for some stops for food/drink/photos and and for them to travel at the pace of their least fit member I would say allowing 4 hours is more realistic for an average group of hillwalkers. I have no knowledge of the groups capabilities/fitness, they can work out if this is reasonable after one of their training walks.
I would say 3 hours is moving pretty fast. Doable for fit hill walkers, but seeing as this is part of a very long day out they shouldn't be going as fast as they can, they need to pace themselves.
Allowing for some stops for food/drink/photos and and for them to travel at the pace of their least fit member I would say allowing 4 hours is more realistic for an average group of hillwalkers. I have no knowledge of the groups capabilities/fitness, they can work out if this is reasonable after one of their training walks.
Post edited at 21:40
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In reply to mountain.martin:
And slow for a fit runner. An average group of hill walkers mostly dawdle on those routes. 3 hours is more than doable rather than no way.
And slow for a fit runner. An average group of hill walkers mostly dawdle on those routes. 3 hours is more than doable rather than no way.
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In reply to Lion Bakes:
They may as well not bother eh?
> And slow for a fit runner. An average group of hill walkers mostly dawdle on those routes. 3 hours is more than doable rather than no way.
They may as well not bother eh?
In reply to HTPumlumon:
Agree with most of your sentiments about "open-ended" questions Pumlimon.
Although these boys look capable...
A bit optimistic on timings for me so I think
PYG to Pen Y Pass return 4 hrs.
Pen Y pass to Barmouth 2 1/2 hrs - big uphill from Meanturog!
Barmouth to Ty-nant car park (for the start of Pony path - easy 1 1/2 hrs - awful slog up!
Pony path to Cader and return - must allow 4 hrs after that day!
So 12hrs plus breaks I reckon.
I tell you what - I will have a go myself in May / June and post my times. Also I will cycle from Barmouth to Ty-nant not run!!
Cheers
Agree with most of your sentiments about "open-ended" questions Pumlimon.
Although these boys look capable...
A bit optimistic on timings for me so I think
PYG to Pen Y Pass return 4 hrs.
Pen Y pass to Barmouth 2 1/2 hrs - big uphill from Meanturog!
Barmouth to Ty-nant car park (for the start of Pony path - easy 1 1/2 hrs - awful slog up!
Pony path to Cader and return - must allow 4 hrs after that day!
So 12hrs plus breaks I reckon.
I tell you what - I will have a go myself in May / June and post my times. Also I will cycle from Barmouth to Ty-nant not run!!
Cheers
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In reply to GazzerM54:
Ultimately, it's an impossible call without knowing what the people in the group are like (and indeed how big the group is). I still think, with adrenaline and 'start of challenge enthusiasm' (!), 3 hrs is there or thereabouts for Snowdon.
I've never gone from Barmouth to Ty-nant, so you may well be right (though on the first section, was thinking they'd go via Harlech, thus avoiding that big hill from Maentwrog).
Ultimately, it's an impossible call without knowing what the people in the group are like (and indeed how big the group is). I still think, with adrenaline and 'start of challenge enthusiasm' (!), 3 hrs is there or thereabouts for Snowdon.
I've never gone from Barmouth to Ty-nant, so you may well be right (though on the first section, was thinking they'd go via Harlech, thus avoiding that big hill from Maentwrog).
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In reply to Lion Bakes:
Naismith's Rule gives 3.5 hours from Pen y Pass to the summit and back via the Pyg Track. When I was an unfit beginner, I never got close to Naismith times. Of course Sean and his chums sound a lot fitter than I was back then, but 3 hours might still be pushing it.
Naismith's Rule gives 3.5 hours from Pen y Pass to the summit and back via the Pyg Track. When I was an unfit beginner, I never got close to Naismith times. Of course Sean and his chums sound a lot fitter than I was back then, but 3 hours might still be pushing it.
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