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On the subject of Doug Scott

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 The Ice Doctor 12 Dec 2016
I recently read that he views himself, or once did as an anarchist. I have to say I respect this view, but it seems to contradict his behaviour. Feed the rat......
 EddieA 13 Dec 2016
In reply to winchur666:

I've reported you for abuse. The link you posted here was to a Neonazi propaganda video. Now F*ck off.



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 Phil1919 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The Ice Doctor:

I went to an anarchist workshop day. It was very good. Leaderless groups. Unfortunately often linked to destructive behaviour. I think the word is often misused. Not sure if it in this case.
abseil 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The Ice Doctor:

> I recently read that he views himself, or once did as an anarchist. I have to say I respect this view, but it seems to contradict his behaviour. Feed the rat......

Thanks for posting, but I care as much about Doug Scott's political views as I care about the Chris Bonington's choice of marmalade or Joe Brown's favourite sliced bread. For me, it's not relevant to the topic. Thank you and Merry Xmas
2
 Simon4 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Whatever Doug Scotts political views may have been, or are now, his level of energy and efficiency as president of the Alpine Club is very impressive. His sheer drive and crispness at a lecture/symposium event was awesome for someone in their eighties.
In reply to Simon4:

> Whatever Doug Scotts political views may have been, or are now, his level of energy and efficiency as president of the Alpine Club is very impressive. His sheer drive and crispness at a lecture/symposium event was awesome for someone in their eighties.

Or even someone in their seventies.
 felt 13 Dec 2016
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

I'd have been impressed had he been in his sixties.
 ericoides 13 Dec 2016
In reply to felt:

Or his fifties, Reg.
 Allovesclimbin 13 Dec 2016
In reply to EddieA:

Was this post removed?
mysterion 13 Dec 2016
In reply to EddieA:

These days neonazi propaganda video just means 'something I don't like, and neither should you'
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 d_b 13 Dec 2016
In reply to mysterion:

I had no idea Mr Blobby was a neo nazi.
 wbo 13 Dec 2016
In reply to mysterion: sadly not in this case. I reported it too, or rather one of the many others on other thread
 Ramblin dave 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The Ice Doctor:

I can't help thinking of the bit in Mountain Days and Bothy Nights where the're staying in Gelder Shiel and a royal party turns up for a picnic:

One of the Ladies of the Chamberpot approached the group of uncouth mountaineers and peered at their badges through shortsighted eyes.

“Oh, YMCA,” she said. “How nice to see young Christian men on the hills.”

“No, wifie, it’s YCND, ban the bomb. We’re nae Christians: we’re anarchists.”

On hearing this, the short-sighted eyes opened wide, and she retreated with no further comment to the safety of the monarchist lines.
 EddieA 14 Dec 2016
In reply to Allovesclimbin:

Yes it was
 EddieA 14 Dec 2016
In reply to mysterion:

> These days neonazi propaganda video just means 'something I don't like, and neither should you'

It was very literally Nazi propaganda: admiring footage of Hitler and stormtroopers goose-stepping, set to a snarling and vicious diatribe about Jewish conspiracies and the role of the Rothchilds in the economic collapse of Germany, and how that justified Hitler's subsequent action. I stopped watching at that point so I can't give you the full plot summary. But I'm pretty sure Doug Scott wasn't in it.

So yes - I didn't like it and I thought most people here wouldn't either and made the call to complain as did others.

Eddie


 EddieA 14 Dec 2016
In reply to The Ice Doctor:

> I recently read that he views himself, or once did as an anarchist. I have to say I respect this view, but it seems to contradict his behaviour. Feed the rat......

And just to get back to Doug Scott - he was a counter-culture figure who did things his own way. I don't see him as having sold out. Much of his climbing philosophy (alpine style, self-sufficient, self-organized, no 'expedition leader') seems to have become accepted now (albeit with added commercial sponsorship), so perhaps he's got no more reason to avoid climbing organizations. How that translates into his non-climbing politics, no idea. I know from my sister, who used to work in Nepal, that he's also done a lot of good there through his community action network https://www.canepal.org.uk. So he's used his influence to put a lot back in.

I met him once, around 20 years ago I think, when we both soloing the easy gullies and buttresses on Brown Cove Crags on a quiet midweek morning. We'd both thought we had the crag to ourselves and I got a shock as he loomed out of the dense fog from a converging line. We exchanged a few words about the lines we'd each picked, and he headed off up into the mist towards Helvellyn while I stayed and did a couple more. He seemed ego-free; just a fellow climber enjoying a quiet day out.

 Simon4 14 Dec 2016
In reply to EddieA:

> It was very literally Nazi propaganda: admiring footage of Hitler and stormtroopers goose-stepping, set to a snarling and vicious diatribe about Jewish conspiracies and the role of the Rothchilds in the economic collapse of Germany

It is true that wolf is far too often cried about alternative views that people, normally themselves fairly inflexible in their opinions do not approve of. But in this case, your description is entirely accurate.

> But I'm pretty sure Doug Scott wasn't in it.

No, the links were scattered all over threads about any subject and had no relevance to any of them. It was close to a DDoS attack, essentially posting the same thing anywhere the culprit could, for as long as he thought he could get away with it.

> So yes - I didn't like it and I thought most people here wouldn't either and made the call to complain as did others.

As in fact did I.

 Simon4 14 Dec 2016
In reply to EddieA:

> And just to get back to Doug Scott - he was a counter-culture figure who did things his own way. I don't see him as having sold out.

Sold out is a loaded, pejorative phrasing. It is possible (like you I really don't know), that his views may have been "softened", or become less in your face over the years. Certainly at the event that I met him that he was chairing, he was wearing a suit and tie, if that constitutes "selling out".

> he's also done a lot of good there through his community action network https://www.canepal.org.uk. So he's used his influence to put a lot back in.

Very true, the auction that was part of the event was for that purpose.


 Andy Say 14 Dec 2016
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Doug was a total hippy on the outside but with a fairly iron will inside.


p.s. He's a nice lad though.
Post edited at 15:20
1
 Damo 14 Dec 2016
In reply to Andy Say:

> Doug was a total hippy on the outside but with a fairly iron will inside.

"Democracy's no good if you have to vote on it, youth." - Doug Scott

When I first met Doug he drove a Volvo estate wagon and was more concerned about the neighbour's cows eating his tomato plants than overthrowing the dictatorship. Of course, this was in the John Major years...
 jcw 14 Dec 2016
In reply to Andy Say: b B

I simply do not know what the original poster posted. But looking at his profile he would seem not to understand that people evolve. Doug had different ideas about artifical versus free, and one could pull out all sorts of contradictory vies over 60 years of being a major figure in British climbing. But one thing I do know he is a totally genuine person. The Alpine world divided between Scott and Bonington men. I met the latter once. I could see him weighing me up whether I might be useful to him and decided I was a lightweight. Doug like Mo recognized a kindred spirit, whatever the difference in our achievements, accents and personalities. and whenever our paths crossed he would always come and talk to me, in the National for hours on end in the 70s but even as recently as this year when he attended the funeral of Jean Afanasieff.
Bonington has doubtless mellowed and certainly has a remarkable record and contributed a huge amount to climbing and expeditions, but I suspect underneath he has not changed. Superficially. I belong more to his background than Doug's but Doug has the essential qualities I admire, a genuine empathy with those who love the mountains and their values. As for neo nazism I have never heard such crap.
 Damo 14 Dec 2016
In reply to jcw:

Well said, I agree.


> The Alpine world divided between Scott and Bonington men.

Yes. I always found this funny though, as from what I know they are still friends and have occasionally climbed together in the last decade or so. They are quite different men, but the climbing differences were mostly in the minds of the observers and reflected more on them than the subjects.

In reply to EddieA:
Have you read feeding the rat?

Doug is a man I highly respect, and yes I have met him.

Neo Nazi stuff....I'm lost ....thread inspired after citing a quote in the book, Feeding the rat.

Great book.
Post edited at 23:17
 Simon4 15 Dec 2016
In reply to jcw:
> Doug has the essential qualities I admire, a genuine empathy with those who love the mountains and their values.

On that theme, I would put in a word for Eric Jones - soft-spoken, so understated that many fail to realise how great and ground-breaking his achievements are, but a real gent and sympathetic character to any fellow mountaineer - and to those who are not but are simply interested.

> As for neo nazism I have never heard such crap

JJust an ideologue with a theme to ride and no interest whatever in climbing, who has found a platform that they can use for a while, until they are noticed and shut down. One of the hazards of relatively free web forum, there have been others, for example "Chambers", though his/her SWP Marxist dialogue is not quite as virulent.





Post edited at 07:35
 leon 1 15 Dec 2016
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Dont panic
There was a neo nazi linked post after your initial post by winchur666: which was deleted and to which EddieA had replied to. Nothing whatsoever to do with Feeding the Rat.
Post edited at 09:54
 EddieA 16 Dec 2016
In reply to leon 1:

> There was a neo nazi linked post after your initial post by winchur666: which was deleted and to which EddieA had replied to. Nothing whatsoever to do with Feeding the Rat.

Thanks for clearing that up Leon1. I thought my reaction to the deleted post would have been deleted too. But apparently it lingers there to confuse some people. I also thought I was replying only to the abusive poster (winchur666) and not to the whole forum.

So, for the last time:

1) I was responding to a post that is now deleted. That now-deleted post had a actual, real neonazi video link in it. I should not have responded - shock and anger at the content of that video prompted a reflex reply.

2) The deleted post, my responses to it, and several other people's attempts to explain what it was all about make it clear that, indeed, neonazi videos and Doug Scott have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Nobody ever said they did.

3) I admire Doug Scott as a forceful climber and as a thoughtful and principled human being. Anarchist or hippy, or ex-anarchist or ex- hippy: whatever. People change and evolve and that seems like an interesting theme to reflect on. Thank you IceDoctor for starting the discussion and others for adding to it.

4) I agree that "Feeding the Rat" is a great book. And it has nothing to do with neonazis.

I learned a lesson: don't respond to an abusive post. Just ask for it to be removed. Thank you UKC climbing mods for responding to my request so quickly. Is it possible, in future, to also remove reactive responses to deleted posts, to save later confusion?

Eddie





Removed User 16 Dec 2016
In reply to EddieA:


> 1) I was responding to a post that is now deleted. That now-deleted post had a actual, real neonazi video link in it. I should not have responded - shock and anger at the content of that video prompted a reflex reply.

Yes you should have, I thought it was pretty obvious that you were replying to a now deleted post, via the name of the poster you were responding to. And well done. Your final sentence was particularly well expressed given the content.

> I learned a lesson: don't respond to an abusive post. Just ask for it to be removed. Thank you UKC climbing mods for responding to my request so quickly. Is it possible, in future, to also remove reactive responses to deleted posts, to save later confusion?

I think normally they do remove both posts. Dunno why not this time but we all make mistakes.

And to get back to the OP, yes Doug Scott is a top bloke, (as is CB, I'm not sure I see any point in comparing them against each other personally) whatever his politics. What he has tried to give back to Nepal speaks volumes about the man.

As for anarchists, many independent-minded people who are not convinced by any of the politics on offer describe themselves as anarchists, which may be of dubious accuracy but it is nearer the mark than associating anarchism with people throwing bricks through the windows of John Lewis. Those people are scrotes, not anarchists.

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