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HI,
I'm about to do my first multi-pitch sport climb but I can't seems to find relative information regarding the types of rope I can use. Some say you can climb with a single sport ropes, some recommend half ropes. I do own 2 sport ropes 60 and 50 meter which I'm planning to use. Climb is 8 pitches and it requires two ropes to abseil.
Now can i lead on a single sport rope? Ropes are both 1.0mm thick. Should i worry about cutting on edges?
Or should i rather get two half ropes? Also how would it work if i mend to climb in 3 people? Beginning of 1. rope i would tie to me, end of 1. rope and beginning of 2. rope to my partner who will be climbing second, end of 2. rope to my other partner who will be climbing last. That will still leave us climbing all only on a single rope. Is it safe if it is a sport rope. Or correct me if all i say is actually incorrect.
I'm about to do my first multi-pitch sport climb but I can't seems to find relative information regarding the types of rope I can use. Some say you can climb with a single sport ropes, some recommend half ropes. I do own 2 sport ropes 60 and 50 meter which I'm planning to use. Climb is 8 pitches and it requires two ropes to abseil.
Now can i lead on a single sport rope? Ropes are both 1.0mm thick. Should i worry about cutting on edges?
Or should i rather get two half ropes? Also how would it work if i mend to climb in 3 people? Beginning of 1. rope i would tie to me, end of 1. rope and beginning of 2. rope to my partner who will be climbing second, end of 2. rope to my other partner who will be climbing last. That will still leave us climbing all only on a single rope. Is it safe if it is a sport rope. Or correct me if all i say is actually incorrect.
In reply to Cimi:
You can climb on a single rope no problem (I take it you mean 10mm not 1.0mm )
Go as a two while you're learning the ropes so to speak. Things can get a little complicated and claustrophobic as a three especially when hanging on a couple of bolts on multi pitch sport
You can climb on a single rope no problem (I take it you mean 10mm not 1.0mm )
Go as a two while you're learning the ropes so to speak. Things can get a little complicated and claustrophobic as a three especially when hanging on a couple of bolts on multi pitch sport
2
In reply to Cimi:
Yes you can do what you propose although it will be somewhat heavier and dragier than using halves. Belay each of you followers on each of the lines. Be careful to alternate clipping the ropes, or just clip one as clipping both leads to higher impact forces during a fall. Although on a bolted climb this doesn't matter to the bolts or the ropes for that matter, it does make for a much harsher catch. The only other thing to be aware of is traverses, when alternating rope clipping or single clipping as it can leave your seconds exposed to a pendulum if they fall. In this case you have no choice but to double clip, preferably using anew extender for each rope making it easier to unclip.
Yes you can do what you propose although it will be somewhat heavier and dragier than using halves. Belay each of you followers on each of the lines. Be careful to alternate clipping the ropes, or just clip one as clipping both leads to higher impact forces during a fall. Although on a bolted climb this doesn't matter to the bolts or the ropes for that matter, it does make for a much harsher catch. The only other thing to be aware of is traverses, when alternating rope clipping or single clipping as it can leave your seconds exposed to a pendulum if they fall. In this case you have no choice but to double clip, preferably using anew extender for each rope making it easier to unclip.
In reply to Cimi:
If it is your first multi pitch sports route I'd suggest climbing with what you have. If you decide you want to do more multi pitch sports then you could consider investing in different ropes.
Are you able to do a shorter two or three pitch route first to practice on? If all else fails you could climb a single pitch sports route as a three to practice. Although heavier than ideal and a little more awkward your ropes would be fine for this. If on easy ground ( for the seconds ) you could climb on a single rope and bring two seconds up together on the end of the single rope climbing tied on about five metres apart. More normally you could lead using both ropes, probably clipping alternately, and bring the seconds up on the end of each rope. They could climb one after the other or, if you have an appropriate belay device and the skills, the seconds could climb simultaneously a few metres apart. This would save a lot of time. However, watch out for any traverses where both seconds need to be well protected ( as mentioned above ).
For your eight pitch route you can then abseil on the two ropes - assuming belays / pitches are no longer than 45-50 metres apart.
If you fall in love with multi pitch sport climbing you could invest in a half or triple rated rope to partner one of your existing sport ropes. Or you could get two half ropes ( great for trad. climbing too! ). Other options are available!
Enjoy
If it is your first multi pitch sports route I'd suggest climbing with what you have. If you decide you want to do more multi pitch sports then you could consider investing in different ropes.
Are you able to do a shorter two or three pitch route first to practice on? If all else fails you could climb a single pitch sports route as a three to practice. Although heavier than ideal and a little more awkward your ropes would be fine for this. If on easy ground ( for the seconds ) you could climb on a single rope and bring two seconds up together on the end of the single rope climbing tied on about five metres apart. More normally you could lead using both ropes, probably clipping alternately, and bring the seconds up on the end of each rope. They could climb one after the other or, if you have an appropriate belay device and the skills, the seconds could climb simultaneously a few metres apart. This would save a lot of time. However, watch out for any traverses where both seconds need to be well protected ( as mentioned above ).
For your eight pitch route you can then abseil on the two ropes - assuming belays / pitches are no longer than 45-50 metres apart.
If you fall in love with multi pitch sport climbing you could invest in a half or triple rated rope to partner one of your existing sport ropes. Or you could get two half ropes ( great for trad. climbing too! ). Other options are available!
Enjoy
In reply to Cimi:
I be tempted to climb on one and carry the second in a rucsac. Check that the abseil stations are no more than 50m apart and make sure that there is a knot in the end of the 50m rope (and the 60m too). It would be prudent also always to have the 50m rope as the pull rope, so that if you do manage to abseil off the end of the 50 (which you shouldn't if you've put a knot in the end) then there is a chance that the joining knot won't pull though the belay.
I be tempted to climb on one and carry the second in a rucsac. Check that the abseil stations are no more than 50m apart and make sure that there is a knot in the end of the 50m rope (and the 60m too). It would be prudent also always to have the 50m rope as the pull rope, so that if you do manage to abseil off the end of the 50 (which you shouldn't if you've put a knot in the end) then there is a chance that the joining knot won't pull though the belay.
2
In reply to Cimi:
Use what you have but do remember to knot the ends of each before you drop them for each ab and un-knot them before you pull them down. At each belay on the way down thread the 60 through the rings, knot the end then pull it down so you can't drop the ropes.
Personally I'd be happy enough to climb as a 3, I actually prefer it but if you're inexperienced and assuming you're climbing in the northern hemisphere in the depths of winter you may struggle to get 3 people up and down 8 pitches figuring stuff out as you go.
Sharp edges should always be a concern whatever rope you're using especially when abbing as the same spot can rub/saw along an edge. That said, it is just something to bear in mind, not something that should stop you.
Given your two ropes are presumably 10mm not 1mm and therefore almost certainly full ropes you have two basic options: Lead with both clipping each to alternate bolts, bring the seconds up one on each either together (guide mode belay basically essential) or one at a time. Alternatively, lead on the 60, bring the two seconds up together on one rope with one carrying the 50, they can be given a little freedom from each other by tying a 1-2m overhand loop or alpine butterfly a few meters from the end of the rope, one ties/clips into this, the other the end of the rope. Again, guide mode basically essential, you will struggle to catch two falling seconds on one rope otherwise. If the climbing is hard, steep or traversing then bring the seconds up one at a time, the first one up trails the spare rope, clipping it back into the draws as they're passed, last one up strips the clips. Make sure you agree a plan and signals before the leader sets off so nobody is in doubt they're safe to climb.
Stick with what you're comfortable with at the belays for tying in. Personally I'd clove hitch my rope into a locking krab on the belay ring directly, whether seconding or leading then if need be tie a fig8 in the free strand near the bolt for the guide-plate. If it's separate bolts or staples then there are various options but I'm sure you can figure out the one that works for you and what you find on the wall.
Take a torch and don't be afraid to bail early if you're slow.
jk
> Or should i rather get two half ropes? Also how would it work if i mend to climb in 3 people? Beginning of 1. rope i would tie to me, end of 1. rope and beginning of 2. rope to my partner who will be climbing second, end of 2. rope to my other partner who will be climbing last. That will still leave us climbing all only on a single rope. Is it safe if it is a sport rope. Or correct me if all i say is actually incorrect.
Use what you have but do remember to knot the ends of each before you drop them for each ab and un-knot them before you pull them down. At each belay on the way down thread the 60 through the rings, knot the end then pull it down so you can't drop the ropes.
Personally I'd be happy enough to climb as a 3, I actually prefer it but if you're inexperienced and assuming you're climbing in the northern hemisphere in the depths of winter you may struggle to get 3 people up and down 8 pitches figuring stuff out as you go.
Sharp edges should always be a concern whatever rope you're using especially when abbing as the same spot can rub/saw along an edge. That said, it is just something to bear in mind, not something that should stop you.
Given your two ropes are presumably 10mm not 1mm and therefore almost certainly full ropes you have two basic options: Lead with both clipping each to alternate bolts, bring the seconds up one on each either together (guide mode belay basically essential) or one at a time. Alternatively, lead on the 60, bring the two seconds up together on one rope with one carrying the 50, they can be given a little freedom from each other by tying a 1-2m overhand loop or alpine butterfly a few meters from the end of the rope, one ties/clips into this, the other the end of the rope. Again, guide mode basically essential, you will struggle to catch two falling seconds on one rope otherwise. If the climbing is hard, steep or traversing then bring the seconds up one at a time, the first one up trails the spare rope, clipping it back into the draws as they're passed, last one up strips the clips. Make sure you agree a plan and signals before the leader sets off so nobody is in doubt they're safe to climb.
Stick with what you're comfortable with at the belays for tying in. Personally I'd clove hitch my rope into a locking krab on the belay ring directly, whether seconding or leading then if need be tie a fig8 in the free strand near the bolt for the guide-plate. If it's separate bolts or staples then there are various options but I'm sure you can figure out the one that works for you and what you find on the wall.
Take a torch and don't be afraid to bail early if you're slow.
jk
Post edited at 10:46
In reply to Cimi:
To add to what m most people have said. Use what you're used to. Don't be afraid to bail early if it's not going to plan. Always double check a person is clipped in before taking off belay etc.
A good plan would be to each have a 120cm fat nylon sling each to use as a cows tail, or even better some rope chopped to the right length (this is worth stealing from any rope you retire, as there are usually sections that are much better condition than the bits which are causing you to retire it. If that makes sense).
Just don't cow's tail yourself to a single bolt and have that as your sole attachment.
To add to what m most people have said. Use what you're used to. Don't be afraid to bail early if it's not going to plan. Always double check a person is clipped in before taking off belay etc.
A good plan would be to each have a 120cm fat nylon sling each to use as a cows tail, or even better some rope chopped to the right length (this is worth stealing from any rope you retire, as there are usually sections that are much better condition than the bits which are causing you to retire it. If that makes sense).
Just don't cow's tail yourself to a single bolt and have that as your sole attachment.
1
In reply to jkarran:
Hi,
I'm climbing in SA, the weather in this time of the year is lovely=).
Well there are 3 abseil down which two are 48 meters and one 50 meters which is really cutting it to my 50M rope.
This is also third party information which i found online so i cannot count on it as absolute accurate. If i take in to consideration the loops and so forth i don't think it's a good idea i venture on my journey with my current ropes.
Unless i would tie the ropes together,pull my 60M through the chains as mention in previous post and lover the 50M rope bit down to get extra length, but again that's really scratching it.
I'm considering buying a 2 half ropes " http://www.backcountry.com/mammut-phoenix-climbing-rope-8mm "
Which are reasonably priced, please guys your thoughts.
However me not knowing much about half ropes only as they are only functional when use together. What happens then if i lead to a pitch and tie my seconds to each of the ropes as you described. What if one falls on the way up,OK it's not a big fall as on lead but is one half rope strong enough to protect and hold my partner? And again if someone follows me on a single rope what about the rope cutting through and around the edges, it appeals to me little bit more risky.
I did climb several trad routes with experiment climbers but i never clarify all these things. Please enlighten me.
Hi,
I'm climbing in SA, the weather in this time of the year is lovely=).
Well there are 3 abseil down which two are 48 meters and one 50 meters which is really cutting it to my 50M rope.
This is also third party information which i found online so i cannot count on it as absolute accurate. If i take in to consideration the loops and so forth i don't think it's a good idea i venture on my journey with my current ropes.
Unless i would tie the ropes together,pull my 60M through the chains as mention in previous post and lover the 50M rope bit down to get extra length, but again that's really scratching it.
I'm considering buying a 2 half ropes " http://www.backcountry.com/mammut-phoenix-climbing-rope-8mm "
Which are reasonably priced, please guys your thoughts.
However me not knowing much about half ropes only as they are only functional when use together. What happens then if i lead to a pitch and tie my seconds to each of the ropes as you described. What if one falls on the way up,OK it's not a big fall as on lead but is one half rope strong enough to protect and hold my partner? And again if someone follows me on a single rope what about the rope cutting through and around the edges, it appeals to me little bit more risky.
I did climb several trad routes with experiment climbers but i never clarify all these things. Please enlighten me.
In reply to beardy mike:
The traverses is something i need to take really into consideration, could i possibly clip one quick-draw i a bold and another quick-draw clipped in to a sling of the first draw? Meaning the first follower would obviously be on the rope with the extended quick-draw.
Otherwise please advice better options.
The traverses is something i need to take really into consideration, could i possibly clip one quick-draw i a bold and another quick-draw clipped in to a sling of the first draw? Meaning the first follower would obviously be on the rope with the extended quick-draw.
Otherwise please advice better options.
In reply to jkarran:
Unless I've misunderstood you, surely you wouldn't thread the 60 through each ab point? It would be alternate ropes threaded through on each abseil.
Unless I've misunderstood you, surely you wouldn't thread the 60 through each ab point? It would be alternate ropes threaded through on each abseil.
In reply to Cimi:
Half ropes are designed to work fine on their own (unlike twin ropes). They aren't going to break! Unless it's an extremely sharp edge, but that would not be good no matter what rope you were using.
Half ropes are designed to work fine on their own (unlike twin ropes). They aren't going to break! Unless it's an extremely sharp edge, but that would not be good no matter what rope you were using.
In reply to Mark Haward:
I'm going to few multi-pitches before this climb as I'm very excited leaving it to the last.
Found a video online of the exact same route I'm venturing on " youtube.com/watch?v=Cx27k8eNOnY& "
I will definitely be going forward with multi-pitching as it is something that always excited me.
Please explain triple rated rope. As I'm considering buying " http://www.backcountry.com/mammut-phoenix-climbing-rope-8mm ".
Would you maybe also suggest investing strait into a 70meter ropes? As thinking it will be more practical in the time to come.
I'm going to few multi-pitches before this climb as I'm very excited leaving it to the last.
Found a video online of the exact same route I'm venturing on " youtube.com/watch?v=Cx27k8eNOnY& "
I will definitely be going forward with multi-pitching as it is something that always excited me.
Please explain triple rated rope. As I'm considering buying " http://www.backcountry.com/mammut-phoenix-climbing-rope-8mm ".
Would you maybe also suggest investing strait into a 70meter ropes? As thinking it will be more practical in the time to come.
In reply to Cimi:
70m ropes are most useful as singles for single pitch sport routes which are too long to lower off with a 60m one. The main advantage I can think of with a 70m half is doubling it up for single pitch trad with a bit of a walk in (to save carrying another rope). It would be rare on multi-pitch trad to require more than 60m ropes.
70m ropes are most useful as singles for single pitch sport routes which are too long to lower off with a 60m one. The main advantage I can think of with a 70m half is doubling it up for single pitch trad with a bit of a walk in (to save carrying another rope). It would be rare on multi-pitch trad to require more than 60m ropes.
In reply to Cimi:
These are great ropes. I've had mine for about 8years, doing trad, winter, sea cliff, multipitch mountain routes. The only reason I'm replacing them is age. They look and feel fine still. Was a bit concerned with durability due to small diameter. But they've taken an absolute beating. Probably about 1000 routes.
Can't recommend highly enough. I'm going to buy the same again.
These are great ropes. I've had mine for about 8years, doing trad, winter, sea cliff, multipitch mountain routes. The only reason I'm replacing them is age. They look and feel fine still. Was a bit concerned with durability due to small diameter. But they've taken an absolute beating. Probably about 1000 routes.
Can't recommend highly enough. I'm going to buy the same again.
1
In reply to Michael Gordon:
Well i would tie end of the ropes together with double fisherman knot just to be really safe, leaving also extra 30 cm on the ends. i would tie 60M through each chain, set a belay, once all secure in a next position i would pull down on the 50M to retrieve both ropes.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Well i would tie end of the ropes together with double fisherman knot just to be really safe, leaving also extra 30 cm on the ends. i would tie 60M through each chain, set a belay, once all secure in a next position i would pull down on the 50M to retrieve both ropes.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
In reply to Cimi:
Halves are strong enough to catch lead falls single strand but intended to do so while backed up by a second strand. I occasionally use one strand alone on easy ground. One second per strand is fine with half ropes unless you're climbing on something razor sharp, just make sure you can hold them comfortably with your belay plate especially while the ropes are new and slick. I'd still just stick with the full ropes for a big sport route.
jk
> I'm climbing in SA, the weather in this time of the year is lovely=).
Nice.> Well there are 3 abseil down which two are 48 meters and one 50 meters which is really cutting it to my 50M rope.
The descent sounds like it's bolted for 50m ropes, they stretch a few meters under bodyweight.> This is also third party information which i found online so i cannot count on it as absolute accurate. If i take in to consideration the loops and so forth i don't think it's a good idea i venture on my journey with my current ropes.
More research or a little care needed maybe. If you're only just short you have options as you've identified.> However me not knowing much about half ropes only as they are only functional when use together. What happens then if i lead to a pitch and tie my seconds to each of the ropes as you described. What if one falls on the way up,OK it's not a big fall as on lead but is one half rope strong enough to protect and hold my partner? And again if someone follows me on a single rope what about the rope cutting through and around the edges, it appeals to me little bit more risky.
Halves are strong enough to catch lead falls single strand but intended to do so while backed up by a second strand. I occasionally use one strand alone on easy ground. One second per strand is fine with half ropes unless you're climbing on something razor sharp, just make sure you can hold them comfortably with your belay plate especially while the ropes are new and slick. I'd still just stick with the full ropes for a big sport route.
jk
In reply to Michael Gordon:
No, you understood, I only had my brain in 1st gear
jk
> Unless I've misunderstood you, surely you wouldn't thread the 60 through each ab point? It would be alternate ropes threaded through on each abseil.
No, you understood, I only had my brain in 1st gear
jk
In reply to Cimi:
An overhand knot is better for abseiling (easier to tie and less likely to snag). See photo in new article on UKC (don't think the tails have to be quite this long). In fact the whole article is worth a read.
The system sounds fine and I guess would be the best way if the abs were more than 50m. But usually on a multi pitch ab you would thread the rope you are pulling down on so it's already set for the next ab. The chain would 'catch' the rope, meaning you don't have 110m of rope to hang on to and sort out while hanging off the crag.
> Well i would tie end of the ropes together with double fisherman knot just to be really safe, leaving also extra 30 cm on the ends. i would tie 60M through each chain, set a belay, once all secure in a next position i would pull down on the 50M to retrieve both ropes.
>
>
An overhand knot is better for abseiling (easier to tie and less likely to snag). See photo in new article on UKC (don't think the tails have to be quite this long). In fact the whole article is worth a read.
The system sounds fine and I guess would be the best way if the abs were more than 50m. But usually on a multi pitch ab you would thread the rope you are pulling down on so it's already set for the next ab. The chain would 'catch' the rope, meaning you don't have 110m of rope to hang on to and sort out while hanging off the crag.
In reply to Cimi:
Thanks all for your advice, one more question as mentioned above i did couple trad routes but never lead. I'm fairly familiar with the system on trad and the process they clip each rope. Which makes absolute sense as one gear you place on the right and another on bit more further on the left two ropes is absolute necessity.
How do you clip on the sport route? When for example bolts would be in one line. Do i just keep clipping one rope and here and there i clip the other?
Thanks all for your advice, one more question as mentioned above i did couple trad routes but never lead. I'm fairly familiar with the system on trad and the process they clip each rope. Which makes absolute sense as one gear you place on the right and another on bit more further on the left two ropes is absolute necessity.
How do you clip on the sport route? When for example bolts would be in one line. Do i just keep clipping one rope and here and there i clip the other?
In reply to Cimi:
I remember reading a multipitch description in a Rockfax guide and it said no abseil longer than 35m. Cool climb it on the single 70m we thought. Turns out the first abseil was about 36.5m...I had to hang upside down on the very end of the ropes, knots up against my plate, to get a sling clipped to the anchor.....then undo the knots, ab off the ends of the rope and down climb to the belay.....the second had to keep one knot in the end of the rope so as not to 'lose' the ropes and dragged the other end down with them.....fun and games eh! Oh and then it got dark really fast....no headtorch and 5 abseils to go....
I remember reading a multipitch description in a Rockfax guide and it said no abseil longer than 35m. Cool climb it on the single 70m we thought. Turns out the first abseil was about 36.5m...I had to hang upside down on the very end of the ropes, knots up against my plate, to get a sling clipped to the anchor.....then undo the knots, ab off the ends of the rope and down climb to the belay.....the second had to keep one knot in the end of the rope so as not to 'lose' the ropes and dragged the other end down with them.....fun and games eh! Oh and then it got dark really fast....no headtorch and 5 abseils to go....
Post edited at 19:12
4
In reply to Cimi:
Yes that is certainly an option so that it is clear. If the ground is moderate then don't worry too much, but if its tough you have to think about your seconds a lot more than normal. Possibly better is to clip the sling to the top biner so that the rope doesn't run over any webing in the bottom biner. Either that or have a long extender clipped into the top biner. The person coming up first is the one on the extra long one, so that as he comes, he unclips the spare sling or extender from the original one without taking it out...
Yes that is certainly an option so that it is clear. If the ground is moderate then don't worry too much, but if its tough you have to think about your seconds a lot more than normal. Possibly better is to clip the sling to the top biner so that the rope doesn't run over any webing in the bottom biner. Either that or have a long extender clipped into the top biner. The person coming up first is the one on the extra long one, so that as he comes, he unclips the spare sling or extender from the original one without taking it out...
In reply to Cimi:
Does the guide say how long each pitch is? If you can get away with a 70m single rope and some slings/crabs for the belay it will be much simpler...
Does the guide say how long each pitch is? If you can get away with a 70m single rope and some slings/crabs for the belay it will be much simpler...
In reply to springfall2008:
No it doesn't base what i made out of it pitch 3-4 is the longest 50M because it s use as abseiling points. One of my concern about my 50M rope as i would not like to end up like our friend in his post above.
No it doesn't base what i made out of it pitch 3-4 is the longest 50M because it s use as abseiling points. One of my concern about my 50M rope as i would not like to end up like our friend in his post above.
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