UKC

The situation is that you are belaying on a serious multi-pitch route or alpine climb (a rescue team / helicopter isn't going to be coming), your lead climber is past half-rope, he/she takes a lead fall or is hit be a rock and is now unconscious or dead.

How do you get them down or get youself down (assuming you would need to retrieve your ropes from your dead partner)?

I'm assuming you would:

1. Rig your anchor for an upwards force
2. Prussic up the rope to your climber and retrieve the gear and build an anchor
3. Attach climber to anchor using a rescue spider
4. Prussic back down
5. Lower climber on to anchor
6. Prussic back up the rope
7. Attach yourself to the rescue spider
8. Rig abseil
9. Release rescue spider
10. Abseil

What are everyone's thoughts? Does anyone have a better solution?

In reply to ROSP:

no idea what a rescue spider is.

there is quite a difference between trying to get an unconcious climber of a cliff to abandoning a dead one and retrieving all the gear.

Libby Peters book is the best resource I've come across to figure out the technicalities. take a bag of rocks to a crag and entertain your self

In reply to alasdair19:


Shoots webs, swings down and rescues you. Job done.

In reply to DaveHK:


Is that the same as a rescue panda: Eats, Shoots and Leaves?

In reply to ROSP:

Shouldn't your belay already be set for upward pull, since the lead climber will be above you?

In reply to ROSP:

It seems like you're gambling on the piece of gear the leader is dangling off to hold the weight of him and you prusiking up the rope. Seems pretty sketchy to me.

In reply to andyb211:


Sounds more like a death Panda to me. Who does he eat? And who does he shoot?

In reply to Lion Bakes: I think he means escape the system first and tie off.

In reply to FreshSlate:

If the leader's hanging from their last piece they've probably already loaded it with a lead fall, much more than the weight of both people. If the rope is tied off at the previous belay and the top piece fails the distance of the fall would be limited by the gear placements on the pitch, it's up to the climber to decide if they are going to be subjected to excessive risk trying to save their partner's life depending on the context (Self Rescue in this context is there to facilitate first aid where the first thought is how to minimise/ alleviate the danger associated with delivering help).
The suggestion of playing about at a crag with a bag of rocks is a good one, probably best having a friend with you who also wants to to help rescue you if you really screw up!

In reply to spenser:
I got rescued by my partner in exactly this sitauation. In the end I understand he tied me off, soloed to where I was hanging and shouted at me until I came to. Keeping distance he managed to coax me back to a ledge and from there assisted abseiled me off the cliff. Not recommended but we're both still here.

In reply to andyb211:

or the avalanche poodle

In reply to spenser:


The fall would be limited - but you have yourself and your unconscious climber falling an even greater height on top of you onto an untested piece. Sounds terrifying to me.

You're right in the first place however - that one piece of gear should hopefully hold the weight of the climber and yourself jugging as it's been tested by a leader fall.

In reply to ROSP:

I think a lot depends on the terrain. Something that you could climb up (to your injured partner) or not (say they were hanging in space). Prussicing up the rope(s) may be the only option. But being on a multi-pitch you will have two ropes that may follow different lines depending on how the leader placed the gear. So you would want to chose the rope with minimum amount of swing.

In reply to ROSP:

Seems a little overcomplicated as described. Once you reach the casualty you can hopefully abseil direct from there rather than having to prussic up, down and then back up the rope.
1. 'Phone for help if possible
2. If there is a ledge or obvious potential belay / anchor point below the casualty possibly lower them to that height.
3. Tie off lead ropes and escape system, possible anchor back up
4. Climb to casualty using Prussic as a safety back up ( spare rope could be used, in conjunction with a device such as a ropeman set up for an upward pull, to use as a 'lead' rope for some of the distance to the casualty )
5. Make casualty safer and as comfortable as possible, setting up a new belay / anchor at their location.
6. Apply any relevant first aid
7. If casualty dead then abseil off and report
6. If casualty alive then two options: Either leave them as safe and warm as possible, with a note explaining, and abseil to get help. (Assuming help / 'phone signal is not far away and it is relatively safe for you to get there). Or abseil with casualty to a better position / base of route.

Many other factors come into play such as nature of injury, level of consciousness, route conditions such as serac or rockfall zones, nature of route such as traverses and availability of anchors, weather forecast, time of day, proximity to other climbers / assistance or hut, 'phone signal, what equipment you have with you etc.

In reply to FreshSlate:

Self rescue isn't going to be a barrel of laughs in any circumstances. The worst situation I can think of is leader being knocked unconscious by rockfall on a ledge with last piece of gear below them with hard ground between the two of you.
I get the feeling that an evening at the wall practicing this stuff may be in order (if they'll let us anyway).

In reply to DaveHK:


Everybody gets ONE.

In reply to ROSP:

Am I the only one who idly thinks of these scenarios when I'm belaying on a multi pitch, and my leader is taking a bit of a time way up in the distance?

In reply to spenser:


If you knew the last piece was effectively an anchor or had a few good pieces nearby I'd be feeling reasonable about it. But the scenario with one loaded piece scares the hell out of me. Could one ab and get help?

In reply to FreshSlate:

The initial post posited that no rescue team was around or going to be coming so I hadn't mentioned that possibility.
The flow chart would go something along the lines of:
"Mate, are you alright?"
Ok, no response, is anyone else on the crag in a position to help? Anyone who might be able to help given a bit of time (perhaps climb to the top of the crag and ab down). Have I got a means of obtaining help from MRT/ coastguard etc?
If help is immediately at hand ask them to abseil down to partner and assess injuries/ stabilise them before getting them to a rescuable position (would depend on crag layout, if it was Idwal slabs then bottom of the crag, if it was St. Govan's top of the crag the casualty would most likely need someone next to them to guide them down or up)
If help is nearby but not immediately then I would attempt to reach the climber and do first aid myself with the hope that help can assist with extracting myself and the climber from the crag.
If no help is available start as I suggested above.

That's roughly the thought process I'd expect to run through in that situation, fortunately the only accidents where I could have done anything were only single pitch so help was a phone call away and the self rescue rope work didn't have to get pulled out.

In reply to spenser:

I think thats quite sensible. The ticking clock of hang syndrome I suppose prevents you from seeking help before attempting to reach the climber.

In reply to ROSP:

An option that could work, but I don't think I've ever heard of it for the situation described where the leader is more than halfway out, would be to tie off the leader to your harness, strip the belay and start climbing, with their weight counterbalance to yours. So long as the gear is good, you'll be protected as you go up and they'll be lowered at the same time until you would hopefully meet. Then do what is required. Both ropes, or even one hasn't been tied off to anything, so you have more options at the leader to rig an abseil, etc.

I also carry a whistle in the hope that six blasts at the start of all this would get someone coming to help faster than an MRT.

In reply to spenser:
Worst case scenario (which is solvable); leader falls on a sea cliff traverse that you can not ab off to safety.

Most improvised rescues are solved through a combination of relatively simple actions. Escape system, hoist, crag snatch, counter balance abseil and prussik up a rope. It's combining the right ones of these in the most efficient logical order that takes the practice.

In reply to jonnie3430:

An appealingly simple sounding solution but fraught with problems!

In reply to jonnie3430:


OK until you have to climb left but the rope is pulling you right by a runner, or vis versa, with a full body weight


A knife would also be useful

In reply to ROSP:

Lots of good replies. If you're wanting to learn these skills, or practice them in safety, lots of Mountaineering Instructors run courses on Self Rescue Skills. http://www.mountain-training.org/associations/ami It always surprises me how few people REALLY know these skills. Every year I see people completely stuck on the cliffs. Usually simple fixes had they known how. Sometimes it's not simple mind, then you really need to know what you're doing...

I run them on the sea cliffs of Pembrokeshire.

http://www.climbingcompany.co.uk/self-rescue-skills/

In reply to FreshSlate:

It's already been tested to the much higher force imposed while arresting the fall... seems a fair bet it'll continue to hold though there's no need to trust it completely.

Different situations will have different optimal solutions and some may have none with the equipment and resources available but my basic plan would be:

*Ensure the belay can take up and down pull, if it can't then that can be handled later. Tie my end of the rope to it.
*Ascend the live rope.
*If the belay wasn't multi directional tie off the first multidirectional running belay passed to protect lower belay from an upward pull. Clip subsequent running belays to back-rope as you pass them.
*Salvage partner's gear, lower them and self clipped together to a belay position.
*Establish a safe but minimal belay. Pull ropes.
*Leave partner if dead or immobile but well enough to safely wait for help.
*If retreating with fully immobile partner add friction to the belay plate and ab with partner on a sling between your legs. Simultaneous ab (backed up so you can't drop each other) is an option if partner is capable but in need of some assistance.
*Salvage gear from the pitch and old belay as you go.
*Repeat belay-ab-belay-ab until on the ground, exhausted or completely out of gear and options.

jk

In reply to Michael Gordon:

I like this solution - assuming on steep (so not bouncing them down rocks) to not massively overhanging ground (so you can reach them).

It's simple and quick. You'll need to be able to anchor at or close to the meeting point. Risks of rope stuck or protection failing same as the other options. What other problems do you foresee?

How about option on the redundant half rope - you could lower them further often to the ground by switching to just that rope. Lower them to below the top piece of gear on the redundant rope. Take redundant rope tight, let the upper rope go loose, but still on belay to test new gear placement (tug on it hard). Then lower til the upper rope runs out, do some prayers and let the upper rope go free, finish lowering on the second rope. Unnecessary risk maybe especially if out of sight but not much worse than if they fell on that placement, and quick.

In reply to trouserburp:



I'm not convinced climbing would necessarily even be possible. With your partner's full weight on the rope you would likely be pulled off the rock, if not immediately then almost certainly at some point on the pitch, leaving you both hanging. OK you could start prussiking upwards from this point but the whole process lacks control and risks further injury. Another likely outcome is you may be physically unable to pass a piece of gear due to the excessively tight rope. I just think the whole thing could well be a complete nightmare.

Your other solution would be a good one if the top piece of gear on the other rope is a fair way below the piece they're hanging off. You would really want to know the gear was good. But it would still have to get them to a point of safety you could reach (say you were belayed on a good girdle ledge), which is really the crux of the matter.

In reply to jkarran:

Sounds like a good plan to me. I would be interested in what the person disliking it saw wrong with it.

In reply to Michael Gordon:

I've climbed up with a partner hanging on other end before (rope too short, but had tied a knot in the end!) - it's fine, like climbing on the moon

In reply to trouserburp:

That's interesting. What happened? (I presume you don't just mean you were lowering them off a sport route)