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I'm asking what do you think is the easiest professional change for someone in their 40's given :
1. has education up to master degree.
2. would like good prospect of finding stable work.
3. would like a job that uses the brain but not to the point of short circuitry.
4. would not like to be burnt out after a couple of years.
5. prepared to take up to a year long course.
aware that some of those points are quite general/subjective.
1. has education up to master degree.
2. would like good prospect of finding stable work.
3. would like a job that uses the brain but not to the point of short circuitry.
4. would not like to be burnt out after a couple of years.
5. prepared to take up to a year long course.
aware that some of those points are quite general/subjective.
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In reply to jondo:
any change is likely to be relevant to your current skills and qualifications, so in the absence of any information. Bank robber? In a year you could do a locksmiths course, something related to security camera & system, perhaps something related to explosives and a week or two on a rally driving course. That should give you fair broad range of skills to get started.
any change is likely to be relevant to your current skills and qualifications, so in the absence of any information. Bank robber? In a year you could do a locksmiths course, something related to security camera & system, perhaps something related to explosives and a week or two on a rally driving course. That should give you fair broad range of skills to get started.
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In reply to jondo:
I am thinking of the same and in a similar position to you.
I don't have any answers yet but something I am looking at is data science as a formal career.
It seems to be more and more important to companies, and not just tech start ups but most large corporates. You can do formal courses ranging from a few months to one year that will give you a 'qualification'. The only sticking point, assuming you are competent at it, is that you will be up against techy kids in trying to get a job.
I am thinking of the same and in a similar position to you.
I don't have any answers yet but something I am looking at is data science as a formal career.
It seems to be more and more important to companies, and not just tech start ups but most large corporates. You can do formal courses ranging from a few months to one year that will give you a 'qualification'. The only sticking point, assuming you are competent at it, is that you will be up against techy kids in trying to get a job.
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In reply to jondo:
As others have said, some ides of what you've been doing for the last 20 years would be useful. No-one is a clean slate
As others have said, some ides of what you've been doing for the last 20 years would be useful. No-one is a clean slate
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In reply to jondo:
Teaching would be an obvious one year conversion, but I don't know about easiest and point 4 on your list might be an issue. Salary expectations may be a problem as well, dependant on your current position.
Teaching would be an obvious one year conversion, but I don't know about easiest and point 4 on your list might be an issue. Salary expectations may be a problem as well, dependant on your current position.
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In reply to jondo: Out of my many careers I can recommend avoiding teaching like the plague, but consider joining the ambulance servive as a paramedic (2yrs) or an EMT (3 months). Plenty of brain use, but more in a practical problem solving way. The answer to your question also depends on what sort of salary you want.
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In reply to jondo:
Will also depend on where you want to, or are prepared to live as to what opportunities there are.
Will also depend on where you want to, or are prepared to live as to what opportunities there are.
In reply to summo:
Sorry but I think that's not a good choice. I've just been reading a study saying the average take per job in the UK is only 12000 quid and that on average they're in jail after 18 months
> ....Bank robber?....
Sorry but I think that's not a good choice. I've just been reading a study saying the average take per job in the UK is only 12000 quid and that on average they're in jail after 18 months
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In reply to abseil:
Accommodation included then.
> Sorry but I think that's not a good choice. I've just been reading a study saying the average take per job in the UK is only 12000 quid and that on average they're in jail after 18 months
Accommodation included then.
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In reply to abseil:
that's average though; just aim for the high end of the market. Can you play chess, Thomas Crown Affair type thing?
> Sorry but I think that's not a good choice. I've just been reading a study saying the average take per job in the UK is only 12000 quid and that on average they're in jail after 18 months
that's average though; just aim for the high end of the market. Can you play chess, Thomas Crown Affair type thing?
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In reply to abseil:
You don't want to be a bank robber, you want to be a robber banker: you get millions in bonuses and pretty much never go to jail.
> Sorry but I think that's not a good choice. I've just been reading a study saying the average take per job in the UK is only 12000 quid and that on average they're in jail after 18 months
You don't want to be a bank robber, you want to be a robber banker: you get millions in bonuses and pretty much never go to jail.
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In reply to jondo:
Utility companies have many random roles that are specific to them and require intelligence. What is your degree and masters in?
Utility companies have many random roles that are specific to them and require intelligence. What is your degree and masters in?
In reply to jondo:
It seems I'm not alone in general career dissatisfaction at the moment.
I've got a PhD in biosciences and I'm just pissed off with working on short contracts.
It seems I'm not alone in general career dissatisfaction at the moment.
I've got a PhD in biosciences and I'm just pissed off with working on short contracts.
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In reply to jondo:
I've shifted career three times so far, and the third role has lead to a senior leadership position - which might as well be a completely different career.
Each change has been to an adjacent industry and has meant a degree of risk, but not as much as embarking on an entrepreneurial venture such as starting a business.
My advice would be to look off to the sides of what you're doing now and see what might float your boat. Attitude is much more important than specific experience in my view - given sector wide knowledge/ experience would get your foot in the door. Networking will help too.
I've shifted career three times so far, and the third role has lead to a senior leadership position - which might as well be a completely different career.
Each change has been to an adjacent industry and has meant a degree of risk, but not as much as embarking on an entrepreneurial venture such as starting a business.
My advice would be to look off to the sides of what you're doing now and see what might float your boat. Attitude is much more important than specific experience in my view - given sector wide knowledge/ experience would get your foot in the door. Networking will help too.
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In reply to jondo:
Become a Policeman/woman?
1) That's over and above the upcoming degree requirement
2) Mounted police - you will get lots of stable work
3) It's rumoured that some brain is required to join the police
4) No, trotting around on a horse is theraputic
5) Sounds a reasonable time to lean to ride
> I'm asking what do you think is the easiest professional change for someone in their 40's given :
> 1. has education up to master degree.
> 2. would like good prospect of finding stable work.
> 3. would like a job that uses the brain but not to the point of short circuitry.
> 4. would not like to be burnt out after a couple of years.
> 5. prepared to take up to a year long course.
> aware that some of those points are quite general/subjective.
Become a Policeman/woman?
1) That's over and above the upcoming degree requirement
2) Mounted police - you will get lots of stable work
3) It's rumoured that some brain is required to join the police
4) No, trotting around on a horse is theraputic
5) Sounds a reasonable time to lean to ride
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In reply to neilh:
This is part of the issue, I am prepared to move a bit but, how long do you keep chasing jobs for? At some point you want to settle down somewhere.
> Are you prepared to move around the country?
This is part of the issue, I am prepared to move a bit but, how long do you keep chasing jobs for? At some point you want to settle down somewhere.
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In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
i applied for a few of those, apparently there are more applicants than ads. (how surprising)
> You don't want to be a bank robber, you want to be a robber banker: you get millions in bonuses and pretty much never go to jail.
i applied for a few of those, apparently there are more applicants than ads. (how surprising)
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In reply to jondo:
Train to develop in one of the main data visualisation platforms (Qlikview, Tableau, Business Objects or similar)?
Big data, warehousing and visualisation seems to be a growing area.
Train to develop in one of the main data visualisation platforms (Qlikview, Tableau, Business Objects or similar)?
Big data, warehousing and visualisation seems to be a growing area.
In reply to jondo:
Could cross train into IT, there is masses of work depending on where you are based.
Not sure about courses though but there are 3 month bootcamps that will get you up to speed, enough to get a first job and then after a couple of years you can be on quite good money.
Jason
Could cross train into IT, there is masses of work depending on where you are based.
Not sure about courses though but there are 3 month bootcamps that will get you up to speed, enough to get a first job and then after a couple of years you can be on quite good money.
Jason
In reply to jasonC abroad:
I have IT related degrees / experience, at some stage couldn't find work, had enough.
So you are mistaken, the abundance is illusory, it is just for some well established people, with no gaps in cv, a certain age, etc...
I have IT related degrees / experience, at some stage couldn't find work, had enough.
So you are mistaken, the abundance is illusory, it is just for some well established people, with no gaps in cv, a certain age, etc...
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In reply to John_Hat:
how do you just become a project manager if your'e looking for a change ?
i would assume you would have to start at the bottom.
> Project Manager? - though could be a problem with (4).
how do you just become a project manager if your'e looking for a change ?
i would assume you would have to start at the bottom.
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In reply to JJL:
^^^^
this. learn some SQL.
> Train to develop in one of the main data visualisation platforms (Qlikview, Tableau, Business Objects or similar)?
> Big data, warehousing and visualisation seems to be a growing area.
^^^^
this. learn some SQL.
In reply to Frank the Husky:
Out of interest what is the starting salary for an EMT and paramedic?
Cheers,
Davie
Out of interest what is the starting salary for an EMT and paramedic?
Cheers,
Davie
In reply to jondo:
Counsellor.
My mother turned to that successfully in her 50s, after working most of her life in adult education.
Appreciate it requires a certain personality type and drive to do that type of job, but certainly worth considering.
Counsellor.
My mother turned to that successfully in her 50s, after working most of her life in adult education.
Appreciate it requires a certain personality type and drive to do that type of job, but certainly worth considering.
Post edited at 14:02
In reply to DR: EMTs are Band 4, Paras are Band 5
Band 4 ranges from £19 - £23k
Band 5 ranges from £21 - £25,500
Paras can go up the scales to becoime Senior or Advanced Paras who are on Bands 6 and 7.
EMTs can become paras but need to do 2 years study (a good chunk of that is on the job)
There are different scales if you're in London.
Overtime is paid at 1.5x your normal rate.
Bank holidays are 2x your normal rate.
Holidays are (for me at least) 165 hrs a year. I mainly do 10 and 12 hr shifts, but some do 8 and 10s....so it depends on your "line" and station as to how many actual days you get.
Band 4 ranges from £19 - £23k
Band 5 ranges from £21 - £25,500
Paras can go up the scales to becoime Senior or Advanced Paras who are on Bands 6 and 7.
EMTs can become paras but need to do 2 years study (a good chunk of that is on the job)
There are different scales if you're in London.
Overtime is paid at 1.5x your normal rate.
Bank holidays are 2x your normal rate.
Holidays are (for me at least) 165 hrs a year. I mainly do 10 and 12 hr shifts, but some do 8 and 10s....so it depends on your "line" and station as to how many actual days you get.
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In reply to jondo:
There isn't really a bottom, as such.
Project management is 90% stakeholder management, which by the time people get to their 40s many people are pretty good at anyway. The rest is easily acquireable knowledge.
The Prince2 course is both inexpensive and easy to pass.
In addition, depending on what you've been doing already, you may well have aspects of project management already on your CV, in which case it is just spinning it appropriately.
No, you're not going to get handed a multimillionpound project as your first outing - though you might (I did), but you can start with smaller projects and work up.
> how do you just become a project manager if your'e looking for a change ?
> i would assume you would have to start at the bottom.
There isn't really a bottom, as such.
Project management is 90% stakeholder management, which by the time people get to their 40s many people are pretty good at anyway. The rest is easily acquireable knowledge.
The Prince2 course is both inexpensive and easy to pass.
In addition, depending on what you've been doing already, you may well have aspects of project management already on your CV, in which case it is just spinning it appropriately.
No, you're not going to get handed a multimillionpound project as your first outing - though you might (I did), but you can start with smaller projects and work up.
In reply to jondo: what you enjoy, find interesting, is going to make a big difference to your points 3 and 4. I would personally go for data science as its similar to what I do now and I'm familiar with a lot of the concepts, maths.
Things like project management would kill me. I try to avoid jobs I don't like
Things like project management would kill me. I try to avoid jobs I don't like
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In reply to Frank the Husky:
Thanks Frank - something I'm interested in but my own particular financial situation means it would be extremely difficult to drop down to the low £20K range.
Cheers Davie
Thanks Frank - something I'm interested in but my own particular financial situation means it would be extremely difficult to drop down to the low £20K range.
Cheers Davie
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In reply to aln:
No I'm not over qualified to be PM - although I'm far too truthfull Aln- but with the possibility of early retirement in the new year I'm unavailable
> I am indeed. You?
No I'm not over qualified to be PM - although I'm far too truthfull Aln- but with the possibility of early retirement in the new year I'm unavailable
In reply to John_Hat:
Haha.
Project management is 90% about delivering projects ontime, to budget and the correct requirements. Stakeholder management on the other hand is what you need to keep your job when you are failing to deliver.
To the O/P - re Point 4 "Not getting burnt out". Project Management is not a stressless option - quite the opposite. There are a lot of pressures and most projects fail and PM's are first in line in the blame game. Taleb in Black Swan gives a good insight into why projects are statistically more likely to overrun than first appear.
If you have a technical bent then do as Mark Westerman says (he should know) and seek out further training in a demand technical area of IT.
> Project management is 90% stakeholder management, which by the time people get to their 40s many people are pretty good at anyway. The rest is easily acquireable knowledge.
Haha.
Project management is 90% about delivering projects ontime, to budget and the correct requirements. Stakeholder management on the other hand is what you need to keep your job when you are failing to deliver.
To the O/P - re Point 4 "Not getting burnt out". Project Management is not a stressless option - quite the opposite. There are a lot of pressures and most projects fail and PM's are first in line in the blame game. Taleb in Black Swan gives a good insight into why projects are statistically more likely to overrun than first appear.
If you have a technical bent then do as Mark Westerman says (he should know) and seek out further training in a demand technical area of IT.
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In reply to ukb shark:
This. My complement of IT specialists has grown from 50 to nearly 250 in recent years. Nothing else comes close for sustained demand. Just pick your speciality with some foresight. Java, Java and more Java is the current flavour. But it does change over time.
> If you have a technical bent then do as Mark Westerman says (he should know) and seek out further training in a demand technical area of IT.
This. My complement of IT specialists has grown from 50 to nearly 250 in recent years. Nothing else comes close for sustained demand. Just pick your speciality with some foresight. Java, Java and more Java is the current flavour. But it does change over time.
In reply to jondo:
I think easy change is not a solution for the well educated trying to gain easy coin. Its too easy, many will think of it, and then it no longer gives easy coinage.
Either fraudulent or original thought must be the way forward. I'd suggest original thought, or charity? Lots of money in charity......
someone above suggested teaching, having tried this, it's the wrong side of charity for a serious retirement plan. Or climbing with any great frequency.
Good luck, if you have that original thought, I'd be happy to listen too!
I think easy change is not a solution for the well educated trying to gain easy coin. Its too easy, many will think of it, and then it no longer gives easy coinage.
Either fraudulent or original thought must be the way forward. I'd suggest original thought, or charity? Lots of money in charity......
someone above suggested teaching, having tried this, it's the wrong side of charity for a serious retirement plan. Or climbing with any great frequency.
Good luck, if you have that original thought, I'd be happy to listen too!
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In reply to jondo:
I agree with avoiding teaching; high rate of burnout and as I was warned at the beginning of my career, teachers are soft targets for politicians. It's too late for me as I hope to retire at 60 (couple of years away) but have you considered social work? There are courses where you can train and be paid - I have a lot of contact with SWs in my job and one was a trainee doing a one year course after leaving a job as a university lecturer. Lots of vacancies around too, at the moment.
I agree with avoiding teaching; high rate of burnout and as I was warned at the beginning of my career, teachers are soft targets for politicians. It's too late for me as I hope to retire at 60 (couple of years away) but have you considered social work? There are courses where you can train and be paid - I have a lot of contact with SWs in my job and one was a trainee doing a one year course after leaving a job as a university lecturer. Lots of vacancies around too, at the moment.
In reply to poppydog:
thanks, good advice, though i doubt if i fit social work.
can't imagine why someone would leave a uni lecturer job...
> I agree with avoiding teaching; high rate of burnout and as I was warned at the beginning of my career, teachers are soft targets for politicians. It's too late for me as I hope to retire at 60 (couple of years away) but have you considered social work? There are courses where you can train and be paid - I have a lot of contact with SWs in my job and one was a trainee doing a one year course after leaving a job as a university lecturer. Lots of vacancies around too, at the moment.
thanks, good advice, though i doubt if i fit social work.
can't imagine why someone would leave a uni lecturer job...
In reply to poppydog:
I recently retrained as a teacher (at the start of my 40s) but my better half is a child protection social worker who came into the English system when we moved to the UK a few years ago for me to my PGCE. I think what you say about teaching is (can be true), I've found it ridiculously hard work - although other NQTs at my school have had other experiences - but my wife has found being a social worker in the UK is also a grind with a similar expectations of working very long hours with a lot of evening and weekend work necessary.
I recently retrained as a teacher (at the start of my 40s) but my better half is a child protection social worker who came into the English system when we moved to the UK a few years ago for me to my PGCE. I think what you say about teaching is (can be true), I've found it ridiculously hard work - although other NQTs at my school have had other experiences - but my wife has found being a social worker in the UK is also a grind with a similar expectations of working very long hours with a lot of evening and weekend work necessary.
In reply to jondo:
I know that this sounds facile, but having made several full career changes(the last being when I was 58), being educated to masters level and having 3 different bachelor degrees, the best change to make is the one that you want to! Look for something that interests you, you may have to take a salary cut, but if you are interested in the job you will be happy with your life. Go for happiness not salary.
I left professions when they got boring, untenable, or they just disappeared! I enjoyed what I did, and did what I enjoyed.
I know that this sounds facile, but having made several full career changes(the last being when I was 58), being educated to masters level and having 3 different bachelor degrees, the best change to make is the one that you want to! Look for something that interests you, you may have to take a salary cut, but if you are interested in the job you will be happy with your life. Go for happiness not salary.
I left professions when they got boring, untenable, or they just disappeared! I enjoyed what I did, and did what I enjoyed.
Post edited at 11:13
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In reply to jondo:
I've got lots of friends in academia from my last job, many many people seem to be on one or two year post-doc research funding with lecturing requirements on the side. It's incredibly insecure as you never know whether you'll get funding to continue, so I know some people who have done PGCEs just because school teaching is more stable. I was at a non-university research institute for a decade, which isn't quite the same but basically my experience was very similar to friends at universities.
> can't imagine why someone would leave a uni lecturer job...
I've got lots of friends in academia from my last job, many many people seem to be on one or two year post-doc research funding with lecturing requirements on the side. It's incredibly insecure as you never know whether you'll get funding to continue, so I know some people who have done PGCEs just because school teaching is more stable. I was at a non-university research institute for a decade, which isn't quite the same but basically my experience was very similar to friends at universities.
In reply to John_Hat:
Previous occupations should not be the limiting factor. I moved from metallurgy to car sales, to wood stove manufacture, to chimney lining contractor, to teacher, to swimming pool material supplies (in Texas) In all of these I progressed up the ladder quite quickly because I enjoyed the work. I tended to move on for three reasons, a) redundancy (steel industry) or I hit the level where progression involved waiting for someone to die or leave (car sales, wood stove.), or political interference (teaching).
Look for a job you can enjoy!
Previous occupations should not be the limiting factor. I moved from metallurgy to car sales, to wood stove manufacture, to chimney lining contractor, to teacher, to swimming pool material supplies (in Texas) In all of these I progressed up the ladder quite quickly because I enjoyed the work. I tended to move on for three reasons, a) redundancy (steel industry) or I hit the level where progression involved waiting for someone to die or leave (car sales, wood stove.), or political interference (teaching).
Look for a job you can enjoy!
In reply to TobyA:
yes i agree, but i meant people with tenure . then its really sounds strange to leave, but i imagine there can be all kind of reasons.
> I've got lots of friends in academia from my last job, many many people seem to be on one or two year post-doc research funding with lecturing requirements on the side. It's incredibly insecure as you never know whether you'll get funding to continue, so I know some people who have done PGCEs just because school teaching is more stable. I was at a non-university research institute for a decade, which isn't quite the same but basically my experience was very similar to friends at universities.
yes i agree, but i meant people with tenure . then its really sounds strange to leave, but i imagine there can be all kind of reasons.
In reply to johncook:
wow, sounds like you had a very varied experience.. I imagine you have a certain personality that enables such decision making (i mean that in a good way).. eventually we are left with memories and experiences so i agree with you there... but my past decisions have not 'trained' my brain to be that open to big changes.. but definitely good advice..
and from others here, thanks for the input ..
> Previous occupations should not be the limiting factor. I moved from metallurgy to car sales, to wood stove manufacture, to chimney lining contractor, to teacher, to swimming pool material supplies (in Texas) In all of these I progressed up the ladder quite quickly because I enjoyed the work. I tended to move on for three reasons, a) redundancy (steel industry) or I hit the level where progression involved waiting for someone to die or leave (car sales, wood stove.), or political interference (teaching).
> Look for a job you can enjoy!
wow, sounds like you had a very varied experience.. I imagine you have a certain personality that enables such decision making (i mean that in a good way).. eventually we are left with memories and experiences so i agree with you there... but my past decisions have not 'trained' my brain to be that open to big changes.. but definitely good advice..
and from others here, thanks for the input ..
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In reply to jondo:
I hated the idea of starting at the bottom of a big corporate but what could I do? I'd only ever been in bands and made music and suddenly I was getting married and preparing for a family. In fact I moved on relatively quickly, after 18 months or so when opportunities came up with a restructure. My point is that when your feet are under the table in a gloabl company, the world is literally your oyster. That sort of organisation takes learning and development vey seriously, in fact I've not had time to consider whether I like it or not as I've been busy looking after the enjoyment of my work, development, my team, co-workers etc. It really is not as awful as it sounds!
I hated the idea of starting at the bottom of a big corporate but what could I do? I'd only ever been in bands and made music and suddenly I was getting married and preparing for a family. In fact I moved on relatively quickly, after 18 months or so when opportunities came up with a restructure. My point is that when your feet are under the table in a gloabl company, the world is literally your oyster. That sort of organisation takes learning and development vey seriously, in fact I've not had time to consider whether I like it or not as I've been busy looking after the enjoyment of my work, development, my team, co-workers etc. It really is not as awful as it sounds!
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In reply to johncook:
This. Actual teaching is great, but paperwork, academies, pay and conditions being undermined, Ofsted have ruined for me and many others I know. I love teaching, but had the education system.
> . . . or political interference (teaching).
This. Actual teaching is great, but paperwork, academies, pay and conditions being undermined, Ofsted have ruined for me and many others I know. I love teaching, but had the education system.
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