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Guidebook time?

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I've just come across the original guidebook description from the 1910 Ogwen District guidebook for a classic North Wales climb:

Difficult and deservedly popular. Rock mostly sound. Time for party of two, one hour and a quarter. Leader needs sixty feet of rope, but eighty feet if a certain slab is taken directly.

Any guesses which route J. M Archer Thomson thought should only take 75 minutes?
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 22 Dec 2016
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

Grooved Arete?


Chris

PS If that is correct my old diary notes that I did it in 26 minutes the 1st time I was up there
 LizS 22 Dec 2016
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

I'm tempted to say Pinnacle Rib, but 75mins? Maybe, climbing alpine style and at a good pace.
In reply to Chris and LizS:

No, it's even longer than both of them...
 Mick Ward 22 Dec 2016
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

Something on Lliwedd...

Mick
 gethin_allen 22 Dec 2016
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

Without all the time to bugger about with gear (not having much) climbing was probably a lot quicker back in the day.
In reply to Mick Ward:
> Something on Lliwedd...

Opposite direction.

 d_b 22 Dec 2016
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
Something on Carnedd y Filiast? Left edge maybe?

Long, contains slab, easy to climb fast.
Post edited at 21:03
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

Amphitheatre Buttress? Though I'm not quite sure you'd call that 'Ogwen Area'.
 LizS 22 Dec 2016
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
It's in the 100 Classic Climbs guidebook as Ogwen.

If it is A.B. then wow, that's going some.
Post edited at 22:08
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
> Amphitheatre Buttress? Though I'm not quite sure you'd call that 'Ogwen Area'.

Yes.

The original 'Climbing in the Ogwen District' guide covered the Carneddau as well.

Anyway, I thought 75minutes was super impressive for 1910 and even now that seems like a positively rapid Alpine style ascent!
Post edited at 22:12
 John Kelly 22 Dec 2016
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

While technical climbing grade has risen dramatically over the years I'm not sure general hill fitness has, there are of accounts from first half last century, and earlier, of individuals regularly walking long distances across the fells in all conditions, life was generally a lot more physical. This general toughness and lack of complex time consuming pro (as previously mentioned) probably allowed some blistering times on non technical ground.
 DerwentDiluted 23 Dec 2016
In reply to John Kelly:

My Grandfather was one of the original Bogtrotters and lived near Disley, he would think nothing of walking from his house to the Kinder Downfall and back, usually as a mornings wakener before cracking on with the day. He also regularly did the Edale-Marsden and climbed routes now graded VS in the '30s. Theres some pics of him on the Roaches in the 30s in my gallery.
 Dave Williams 23 Dec 2016
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

In all probability, given the physical rigours of everyday life at that time, climbers in general were fitter and stronger than most people who climb today. This fact, as well as moving together, with no runners in the accepted sense, plus perfunctory belaying by running a rope around a pillar etc when possible (otherwise unsecured body belaying) - and 75 mins begins to look achievable.

I'm reminded that one of the pioneers of rock climbing in Radnorshire's Elan Valley in the early 1950s was a Crown Forester named E.H. Lane. Much of his climbing was done on Sundays, a reflection of the fact that he, like other working class climbers, was working a six day week, as was normal at the time. In the absence of any railway connection or bus service, E.H., (by all accounts an obsessive and driven character), regularly cycled the topographically challenging 20-22 miles on poor roads from his home in Old Radnor to the cliffs of the Elan Valley. After climbing all day, pioneering new, multi-pitch routes in the Valley, he'd then cycle back home, gaining and loosing over 200m in 5 miles at one point while crossing the Radnor Hills, so as to be ready for work the following day.

Difficult times; remarkable people.

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