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Morning,
I'm torn and have been putting it off for years, but the time has come to decide as the car is giving me signals of it's imminent demise. I've driven an estate for years with the back seats down and rarely have anyone in the back. Not keen on a car based van, they seem a bit small in the back. It would be nice to be able to sleep in it whenever but also be able to have my bouldering pad, bike and trad gear inside the van and not have to move it all about. I can sleep in my car but that gets all piled in the front (pad under the car). So something like a transit or transporter.
Keen to hear opinions against getting van because those opinions are rare when reading most posts. People love their vans (especially T5 owners) and seam to wax lyrical about how ace they are. But the costs of running one for the 20odd times a year you sleep in it seams a lot. You could probably just get a 5* hotel every night and still save money .
i guess if you were like me and really didn't regret it keen to hear that as well .
If it helps I don't have to commute to work more than once a month, so sitting in traffic daily is not a consideration.
Cheers,
Si
I'm torn and have been putting it off for years, but the time has come to decide as the car is giving me signals of it's imminent demise. I've driven an estate for years with the back seats down and rarely have anyone in the back. Not keen on a car based van, they seem a bit small in the back. It would be nice to be able to sleep in it whenever but also be able to have my bouldering pad, bike and trad gear inside the van and not have to move it all about. I can sleep in my car but that gets all piled in the front (pad under the car). So something like a transit or transporter.
Keen to hear opinions against getting van because those opinions are rare when reading most posts. People love their vans (especially T5 owners) and seam to wax lyrical about how ace they are. But the costs of running one for the 20odd times a year you sleep in it seams a lot. You could probably just get a 5* hotel every night and still save money .
i guess if you were like me and really didn't regret it keen to hear that as well .
If it helps I don't have to commute to work more than once a month, so sitting in traffic daily is not a consideration.
Cheers,
Si
3
6
In reply to snoop6060:
No, never regretted it. Had my 2.5L diesel automatic Mazda Bongo for 8 years. Okay I've sent a good deal on it and it's heavy on fuel, 30mph, but it's reckoned you'll 250k miles out them. I was thinking of replacing it last year but had it throughly inspected. The underneath was in surprisingly good shape. Had it undersealed and resprayed instead.
No, never regretted it. Had my 2.5L diesel automatic Mazda Bongo for 8 years. Okay I've sent a good deal on it and it's heavy on fuel, 30mph, but it's reckoned you'll 250k miles out them. I was thinking of replacing it last year but had it throughly inspected. The underneath was in surprisingly good shape. Had it undersealed and resprayed instead.
In reply to snoop6060:
No ones ever really regretted buying a van!! What is there to regret??
I went for an 8 seater Vito. The seats come out so you can change it up depending on how many people and how much gear you have. It feels very car like to drive. Best of most worlds really..
Blacked out windows in the back, so it's easy enough to sleep in. Tad uncomfortable / cramped if you leave in the middle row of seats.
Only thing I'll do differently next time is go for the 5 seater. I've had >5 folk in it once, and the 8th seat makes it a pest to get insurance.
Do it, you'll not regret it!
No ones ever really regretted buying a van!! What is there to regret??
I went for an 8 seater Vito. The seats come out so you can change it up depending on how many people and how much gear you have. It feels very car like to drive. Best of most worlds really..
Blacked out windows in the back, so it's easy enough to sleep in. Tad uncomfortable / cramped if you leave in the middle row of seats.
Only thing I'll do differently next time is go for the 5 seater. I've had >5 folk in it once, and the 8th seat makes it a pest to get insurance.
Do it, you'll not regret it!
In reply to Removed UserDeleted bagger:
Is the bongo the one that comes with an armchair as a driving seat and all the modular furniture you can buy for em? They are pretty cool, my mate would never consider ever buying anything but japanese when it comes to cars and vans.
Is the bongo the one that comes with an armchair as a driving seat and all the modular furniture you can buy for em? They are pretty cool, my mate would never consider ever buying anything but japanese when it comes to cars and vans.
1
In reply to snoop6060:
I've sometimes wondered about how they'd navigate country lanes and similar compared to cars.
I've sometimes wondered about how they'd navigate country lanes and similar compared to cars.
In reply to ceri:
I agree! I had a series of vans before moving into cars.
I think the only time you are at a disadvantage from a driving point of view is when joining another road at an oblique angle when it's difficult if not impossible to see traffic from the laeft through the passenger window. However with a bit of forethought you can usually overcome this by thinking ahead and positioning the van more at right angles to the road you are joining - sometimes not always possible because you have to watch that you don't obstruct traffic leaving the road you are joining from your right.
I agree! I had a series of vans before moving into cars.
I think the only time you are at a disadvantage from a driving point of view is when joining another road at an oblique angle when it's difficult if not impossible to see traffic from the laeft through the passenger window. However with a bit of forethought you can usually overcome this by thinking ahead and positioning the van more at right angles to the road you are joining - sometimes not always possible because you have to watch that you don't obstruct traffic leaving the road you are joining from your right.
In reply to Timmd:
Well I drive a passat estate atm and it surely cannot get any worse, it's really spongy to drive and windy roads are it's nemesis. More of a motorway car. So i'm used to driving pretty slow in bends on country roads.
Well I drive a passat estate atm and it surely cannot get any worse, it's really spongy to drive and windy roads are it's nemesis. More of a motorway car. So i'm used to driving pretty slow in bends on country roads.
1
In reply to Timmd:
Differently. They aren't sports cars obviously, but then again you get MUCH better visibility.
And to the OP - get a T5 or Vito, and if you dont like it, sell it on. You wont regret it because at least you will have tried it, and if you really dont like it and sell it, you will at least know why. If you never buy one, you'll always think "what if......."
Differently. They aren't sports cars obviously, but then again you get MUCH better visibility.
And to the OP - get a T5 or Vito, and if you dont like it, sell it on. You wont regret it because at least you will have tried it, and if you really dont like it and sell it, you will at least know why. If you never buy one, you'll always think "what if......."
Post edited at 12:31
2
In reply to Trangia:
Reduced vision would annoy me though might get used to it. I would intend to put a rear window in it on the passenger side which would help with the situation you describe I guess.
Reduced vision would annoy me though might get used to it. I would intend to put a rear window in it on the passenger side which would help with the situation you describe I guess.
In reply to Ian W:
If I get a VW I have decided to go with a newer T6, yes its pricey but not actually that much more than a newish transit. All vans that are fairly new are pricey. Mainly as it comes with a the new compliant diesel engine (type 6 or summat) and most of the car like features as standard. So will be much easier to sell as a camper if I decide to convert it.
But there is no getting away from the price, newer vans aren't cheap. I've saved up the monies tho and if it holds its value and I need to sell it, then the initial cost is not the main issue.
If I get a VW I have decided to go with a newer T6, yes its pricey but not actually that much more than a newish transit. All vans that are fairly new are pricey. Mainly as it comes with a the new compliant diesel engine (type 6 or summat) and most of the car like features as standard. So will be much easier to sell as a camper if I decide to convert it.
But there is no getting away from the price, newer vans aren't cheap. I've saved up the monies tho and if it holds its value and I need to sell it, then the initial cost is not the main issue.
In reply to snoop6060:
Mine's very similar in spec to this.
https://www.gumtree.com/p/campervans-motorhomes/mazda-bongo-camper-with-awn...
Mine's very similar in spec to this.
https://www.gumtree.com/p/campervans-motorhomes/mazda-bongo-camper-with-awn...
In reply to Removed UserDeleted bagger:
Out of interest, what ballpark figure might I be looking at for underseal/respray do you think for a larger van?
Mine's a LWB Movano 2005 but the engine is virtually new so keeping it on the road would be a good thing.
Out of interest, what ballpark figure might I be looking at for underseal/respray do you think for a larger van?
Mine's a LWB Movano 2005 but the engine is virtually new so keeping it on the road would be a good thing.
In reply to Trangia:
This is where electric wing mirrors are your friend.
Working out of a van every day I have this problem quite often, sometimes you can get away with positioning and other times a quick mirror adjustment is the way, especially on the little roads in the Dale's where there isn't room for positioning.
On to comparing to driving a car, not as quick or nimble but as someone else said visibility is vastly better and the improved vision can lead to overtaking opportunities that you can't do unless you can see over the wall or hedge.
The supreme order of transport is
Motorcycle
Van
Pick up
Car
> I think the only time you are at a disadvantage from a driving point of view is when joining another road at an oblique angle when it's difficult if not impossible to see traffic from the laeft through the passenger window. However with a bit of forethought you can usually overcome this by thinking ahead and positioning the van more at right angles to the road you are joining - sometimes not always possible because you have to watch that you don't obstruct traffic leaving the road you are joining from your right.
This is where electric wing mirrors are your friend.
Working out of a van every day I have this problem quite often, sometimes you can get away with positioning and other times a quick mirror adjustment is the way, especially on the little roads in the Dale's where there isn't room for positioning.
On to comparing to driving a car, not as quick or nimble but as someone else said visibility is vastly better and the improved vision can lead to overtaking opportunities that you can't do unless you can see over the wall or hedge.
The supreme order of transport is
Motorcycle
Van
Pick up
Car
5
In reply to snoop6060:
Ey up Si, surprised you haven't got a van yet.
I got a T5 a year ago and mostly like it a lot. The only real downside I've found is parking them. The crowded carpark at work can be difficult to find a space big enough. Often end up parking a distance away and walking. Confined parallel parking if you haven't got parking sensors can also be hard.
No regrets about getting one though, the pros outweigh the cons.
Jim.
Ey up Si, surprised you haven't got a van yet.
I got a T5 a year ago and mostly like it a lot. The only real downside I've found is parking them. The crowded carpark at work can be difficult to find a space big enough. Often end up parking a distance away and walking. Confined parallel parking if you haven't got parking sensors can also be hard.
No regrets about getting one though, the pros outweigh the cons.
Jim.
In reply to Siward:
Got my Bongo done for £1200, cash. Know a guy who used to work for Wellhouse Leisure. So top quality work at discount price. Guess a T5 would cost a few hundred quid more.
> Out of interest, what ballpark figure might I be looking at for underseal/respray do you think for a larger van?
Got my Bongo done for £1200, cash. Know a guy who used to work for Wellhouse Leisure. So top quality work at discount price. Guess a T5 would cost a few hundred quid more.
In reply to snoop6060:
Both T4 and T5 were good to me.
Visibility never an issue once your learn to trust your mirrors.
Can feel like a bit of a white elephant sitting infront of your house and all your neighbours will want you to help take their washing machine/sofa/patio to the tip, but not really any different from running a big car price-wise.
Both T4 and T5 were good to me.
Visibility never an issue once your learn to trust your mirrors.
Can feel like a bit of a white elephant sitting infront of your house and all your neighbours will want you to help take their washing machine/sofa/patio to the tip, but not really any different from running a big car price-wise.
In reply to snoop6060:
Before you rush into buying a van there's a lot more to think about!
For one vans don't incur No Claims bonus, fine if you own a car as well, as you can mirror the NCB over. However if its your only vehicle and you don't have full no claims you'll find you'll be paying a larger penalty as the years go on. Whats more if you then go back to a private vehicle/car you start with 0 no claims! Also worth checking the road tax bracket. Not to mention the speed limit for vans is 10mph less on the roads than for a car/car derived van, with more and more average speed camera's about its worth considering
Before you rush into buying a van there's a lot more to think about!
For one vans don't incur No Claims bonus, fine if you own a car as well, as you can mirror the NCB over. However if its your only vehicle and you don't have full no claims you'll find you'll be paying a larger penalty as the years go on. Whats more if you then go back to a private vehicle/car you start with 0 no claims! Also worth checking the road tax bracket. Not to mention the speed limit for vans is 10mph less on the roads than for a car/car derived van, with more and more average speed camera's about its worth considering
2
In reply to snoop6060:
Just do it, you won't regret it.
I bought a T5 earlier this year when with 3 kids and 2 dogs we finally out grew a regular car for travelling, camping etc. I just wish i'd bought one earlier.
Cezza
Just do it, you won't regret it.
I bought a T5 earlier this year when with 3 kids and 2 dogs we finally out grew a regular car for travelling, camping etc. I just wish i'd bought one earlier.
Cezza
In reply to pass and peak:
Um.. not sure I understand you. My van cover definitely does give me NCB, though I think you're right that it may not be transferable to/from a car policy.
That's almost correct for a panel van - the national limit for single carriageway/dual carriageway/motorway is 50/60/70. But a camper or 'dual purpose vehicle' (such as a 5-seater T5 with rear windows and a row of transverse seats in the back) is 60/70/70, the same as a car or car-derived van.
In practice I've never noticed, or heard of the 50/60 limits on single/dual carriageways being enforced, but obviously if you were to be clocked for speeding at say 85mph on a dual carriageway you'd be 25mph over the limit rather than 15mph over.
> For one vans don't incur No Claims bonus, fine if you own a car as well, as you can mirror the NCB over. However if its your only vehicle and you don't have full no claims you'll find you'll be paying a larger penalty as the years go on.
Um.. not sure I understand you. My van cover definitely does give me NCB, though I think you're right that it may not be transferable to/from a car policy.
> Not to mention the speed limit for vans is 10mph less on the roads than for a car/car derived van, with more and more average speed camera's about its worth considering
That's almost correct for a panel van - the national limit for single carriageway/dual carriageway/motorway is 50/60/70. But a camper or 'dual purpose vehicle' (such as a 5-seater T5 with rear windows and a row of transverse seats in the back) is 60/70/70, the same as a car or car-derived van.
In practice I've never noticed, or heard of the 50/60 limits on single/dual carriageways being enforced, but obviously if you were to be clocked for speeding at say 85mph on a dual carriageway you'd be 25mph over the limit rather than 15mph over.
Post edited at 17:21
In reply to alan moore:
As it happens, going to the tip can be a bit of an issue depending on where you are. It varies place to place depending on the local council's policy. You need to convince them that you're not wanting to dump commercial waste basically.
Around here if you turn up unannounced at the tip in your van they won't let you in. If it's your own personal van you can book in advance, or you can get an annual permit for up to 12 visits. If it's a company vehicle or bigger than a SWB T5/Transit/Vivaro etc. no chance. I think their rule is that it has to be your own waste too - you're actually not allowed to take your neighbour's sofa/patio. Which is handy. (The washing machine you can get a reputable scrapper to come and pick up for free anyway.)
You're not wrong though. I've been driving a van for years, and I've lost count of the number of people I've helped to move furniture etc. I don't mind doing it, it's nice to be able to give a friend a hand with something. I've got quite good at being otherwise engaged on the rare occasions someone is trying to take the piss.
> all your neighbours will want you to help take their washing machine/sofa/patio to the tip
As it happens, going to the tip can be a bit of an issue depending on where you are. It varies place to place depending on the local council's policy. You need to convince them that you're not wanting to dump commercial waste basically.
Around here if you turn up unannounced at the tip in your van they won't let you in. If it's your own personal van you can book in advance, or you can get an annual permit for up to 12 visits. If it's a company vehicle or bigger than a SWB T5/Transit/Vivaro etc. no chance. I think their rule is that it has to be your own waste too - you're actually not allowed to take your neighbour's sofa/patio. Which is handy. (The washing machine you can get a reputable scrapper to come and pick up for free anyway.)
You're not wrong though. I've been driving a van for years, and I've lost count of the number of people I've helped to move furniture etc. I don't mind doing it, it's nice to be able to give a friend a hand with something. I've got quite good at being otherwise engaged on the rare occasions someone is trying to take the piss.
In reply to snoop6060:
Get a T25 with either a TDI engine conversion or suburu engine conversion.
I have a fantastic one in gold. Best few thousand I ever spent.
Get a T25 with either a TDI engine conversion or suburu engine conversion.
I have a fantastic one in gold. Best few thousand I ever spent.
In reply to Static:
Jim, long time fella. I haven't made the jump as the Passat just refuses to die. It's still putting up a fight but it's become more of a whimper and I think it's time to put it down. Are you climbing still/again? Give me a shout in the summer if you are . I intend to do supercool next year which I expect will mean some extended stays your way (assuming you are still there). Probably followed by abject failure as usual.
Jim, long time fella. I haven't made the jump as the Passat just refuses to die. It's still putting up a fight but it's become more of a whimper and I think it's time to put it down. Are you climbing still/again? Give me a shout in the summer if you are . I intend to do supercool next year which I expect will mean some extended stays your way (assuming you are still there). Probably followed by abject failure as usual.
In reply to deepsoup:
Easy I just take missus' car to the tip. And anywhere where someone might scratch my shiny van
Easy I just take missus' car to the tip. And anywhere where someone might scratch my shiny van
1
In reply to Dax H:
that is just so true.
> The supreme order of transport is
> Motorcycle
> Van
> Pick up
> Car
> Motorcycle
> Van
> Pick up
> Car
that is just so true.
1
In reply to snoop6060:
similar experience needing to drive a friends Audi Allroad back from a trip - absolutely awful on small Norwegian roads - soft, and nasty steering. The steering was so bad I test drove another to see if something was wrong with it (no, nasty as well)
Driving a Mercedes sprinter was much easier and faster
similar experience needing to drive a friends Audi Allroad back from a trip - absolutely awful on small Norwegian roads - soft, and nasty steering. The steering was so bad I test drove another to see if something was wrong with it (no, nasty as well)
Driving a Mercedes sprinter was much easier and faster
In reply to snoop6060:
true on price, and as you rightly say, they do hold their value. Modern vans last for ever; part of the reason for the initial expense (apart from relatively low production volumes) is that they are much tougher than cars. We used Merc Vito's and Sprinters as delivery vans, they got worked really hard and lasted for between 400k and 500k miles before needing really major work.
T6 sounds good - performance is right up there nowadays, so much easier to keep up with traffic without thrashing them.
Enjoy!!
true on price, and as you rightly say, they do hold their value. Modern vans last for ever; part of the reason for the initial expense (apart from relatively low production volumes) is that they are much tougher than cars. We used Merc Vito's and Sprinters as delivery vans, they got worked really hard and lasted for between 400k and 500k miles before needing really major work.
T6 sounds good - performance is right up there nowadays, so much easier to keep up with traffic without thrashing them.
Enjoy!!
In reply to snoop6060:
Great thread, I'm hoping to retire in the new year, and want to budget for a camper van as part of my financial planning .
A reliable two berth van with good MPG is what I am after, mostly for hillwalking trips, but also a bit of cycle touring, so needs to have/take a bike rack (or have a tow bar, as I have a tow bar bike rack. )
What is a reasonable price to budget for a ( second hand) van like that ?
Great thread, I'm hoping to retire in the new year, and want to budget for a camper van as part of my financial planning .
A reliable two berth van with good MPG is what I am after, mostly for hillwalking trips, but also a bit of cycle touring, so needs to have/take a bike rack (or have a tow bar, as I have a tow bar bike rack. )
What is a reasonable price to budget for a ( second hand) van like that ?
In reply to Jim C:
Good MPG means a newer van as far as I can see unless 30mpg is considered good? And a newer van means a big price. Well north of 10k just for the van.
Good MPG means a newer van as far as I can see unless 30mpg is considered good? And a newer van means a big price. Well north of 10k just for the van.
In reply to snoop6060: had exactly the same thoughts as you're currently having (especially the 5* hotel line) for about three years. Bit the bullet in August - no regrets at all. Love it and use it more than I ever thought I would.
In reply to snoop6060:
Yep, it is a balance of age and efficiency as you say. ( and engine size)
Although some manufacturers engines , age apart, ( and driven with consumption in mind) will be more fuel efficient than others.
I need help to identify the best ones, or to rule out the bad/worst ones, so I can concentrate my search only on those makes/models that UKCers have found to be best.
> Good MPG means a newer van as far as I can see unless 30mpg is considered good? And a newer van means a big price. Well north of 10k just for the van.
Yep, it is a balance of age and efficiency as you say. ( and engine size)
Although some manufacturers engines , age apart, ( and driven with consumption in mind) will be more fuel efficient than others.
I need help to identify the best ones, or to rule out the bad/worst ones, so I can concentrate my search only on those makes/models that UKCers have found to be best.
In reply to snoop6060:
I regret buying my van, it's a swb vivaro, now don't get me wrong, it's been a great little van, body in good nick, fully galvanised so it'll never rot unless the galvanising is penetrates,but it's just too small for me, I racked it out so tools are floor to ceiling on both sides and at the bulkhead, as well as the saw track and chopsaw stand being on the floor. Before all that went in I would have struggled to get an 8x4 sheet in there, there's no way I can get 1/2 a sheet in there now let alone a full sheet. The initial idea was that I could sleep in there while working away, partly to save money but mostly to protect my tools.
Would I buy the van again if I didn't have so many tools? Yes
I'm now looking for something much bigger, sprinter size but not actually a sprinter (don't like them for some reason).
I regret buying my van, it's a swb vivaro, now don't get me wrong, it's been a great little van, body in good nick, fully galvanised so it'll never rot unless the galvanising is penetrates,but it's just too small for me, I racked it out so tools are floor to ceiling on both sides and at the bulkhead, as well as the saw track and chopsaw stand being on the floor. Before all that went in I would have struggled to get an 8x4 sheet in there, there's no way I can get 1/2 a sheet in there now let alone a full sheet. The initial idea was that I could sleep in there while working away, partly to save money but mostly to protect my tools.
Would I buy the van again if I didn't have so many tools? Yes
I'm now looking for something much bigger, sprinter size but not actually a sprinter (don't like them for some reason).
Post edited at 08:41
In reply to deepsoup:
Yeh I was been simplistic in my post (lazy typist!) After converting my van into a camper, re-registering it was one of the first things I did in order to get that extra 10mph. Travel a lot up to Scotland A9, 90 mile stretch of average speed camera's, it was purgatory to sit at 50. Interesting that your still getting NCB on your van policy. It certainly used to be the case years ago, had vans most of my driving life. then had a short spell with cars and found after changing over the NCB vanished, inquired with lots of companies and all said the same. might be when you change insurers! Anyway only started collection NCB again after re-reg as camper, I now have a full 2 years yet I haven't had an accident for 20 years and driven every year! go figure!
Yeh I was been simplistic in my post (lazy typist!) After converting my van into a camper, re-registering it was one of the first things I did in order to get that extra 10mph. Travel a lot up to Scotland A9, 90 mile stretch of average speed camera's, it was purgatory to sit at 50. Interesting that your still getting NCB on your van policy. It certainly used to be the case years ago, had vans most of my driving life. then had a short spell with cars and found after changing over the NCB vanished, inquired with lots of companies and all said the same. might be when you change insurers! Anyway only started collection NCB again after re-reg as camper, I now have a full 2 years yet I haven't had an accident for 20 years and driven every year! go figure!
In reply to snoop6060:
I bought an ex plod speed camera van, a Vauxhall Vivaro SWB. Already insulated, boarded and carpeted, split charger, big leisure battery, 240v hook up, 12v lighting and USB sockets, 240v sockets, 240v heater, Eberspacher diesel heater. 40mpg. <70k miles, full service history. Spent most of its life in lay-bys.
Just about to fit furniture, cooker and fridge and rock and roll bed.
The van cost 4.5k plus vat, and we absolutely love it. Just got back from camping in N Wales, sleeping on bouldering mats till we get the furniture in, just brilliant!
I bought an ex plod speed camera van, a Vauxhall Vivaro SWB. Already insulated, boarded and carpeted, split charger, big leisure battery, 240v hook up, 12v lighting and USB sockets, 240v sockets, 240v heater, Eberspacher diesel heater. 40mpg. <70k miles, full service history. Spent most of its life in lay-bys.
Just about to fit furniture, cooker and fridge and rock and roll bed.
The van cost 4.5k plus vat, and we absolutely love it. Just got back from camping in N Wales, sleeping on bouldering mats till we get the furniture in, just brilliant!
1
In reply to snoop6060:
My lwb Traffic gives me 40-45 mpg driven sensibly (no point driving otherwise in a van).
My lwb Traffic gives me 40-45 mpg driven sensibly (no point driving otherwise in a van).
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:
Sounds great!
> I bought an ex plod speed camera van, a Vauxhall Vivaro SWB. Already insulated, boarded and carpeted, split charger, big leisure battery, 240v hook up, 12v lighting and USB sockets, 240v sockets, 240v heater, Eberspacher diesel heater. 40mpg. <70k miles, full service history. Spent most of its life in lay-bys.
Sounds great!
1
In reply to jezb1: We've got a recent t5 and converted it to our spec.
As far as can tell I seem to have joined the 'Empty Wallet Club'. The things I talk myself into needing are endless. With a 50% discount code I gleefully parted with £350 for an awning. An awning! What have I become?
The scene tax on most things can be seen a long way off to be fair, but there's always something I 'need'.
As far as can tell I seem to have joined the 'Empty Wallet Club'. The things I talk myself into needing are endless. With a 50% discount code I gleefully parted with £350 for an awning. An awning! What have I become?
The scene tax on most things can be seen a long way off to be fair, but there's always something I 'need'.
2
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:
I've been looking at these for sale, make a lot of sense as they will not have been driven hard (I can't imaging a speed camera operator being in that much of a hurry to get to work, or speeding ) No heavy loading, always serviced on time, they should be about as well maintained and easy driven as you will find.
I take it not too much to strip out before the conversion? I was wondering if they had insulation but you've answered that, is there a side opening window or just where they poked the camera out through the back?
Good luck with it, I may go down that route as I'm looking for a SWB and higher roof to convert for mainly fishing trips.
> I bought an ex plod speed camera van, a Vauxhall Vivaro SWB. Already insulated, boarded and carpeted, split charger, big leisure battery, 240v hook up, 12v lighting and USB sockets, 240v sockets, 240v heater, Eberspacher diesel heater. 40mpg. <70k miles, full service history. Spent most of its life in lay-bys.
I've been looking at these for sale, make a lot of sense as they will not have been driven hard (I can't imaging a speed camera operator being in that much of a hurry to get to work, or speeding ) No heavy loading, always serviced on time, they should be about as well maintained and easy driven as you will find.
I take it not too much to strip out before the conversion? I was wondering if they had insulation but you've answered that, is there a side opening window or just where they poked the camera out through the back?
Good luck with it, I may go down that route as I'm looking for a SWB and higher roof to convert for mainly fishing trips.
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:
That does sound like a bargain to be fair. Does it have a peep hole in the back?
That does sound like a bargain to be fair. Does it have a peep hole in the back?
In reply to Moley:
Don't forget recent diesel vans are reportedly better off with longer journeys under their belt than lots of short journeys. 70000 miles of 10 -15 mile journeys would be enough for me to trawl some forums and ask a mechanic.
Don't forget recent diesel vans are reportedly better off with longer journeys under their belt than lots of short journeys. 70000 miles of 10 -15 mile journeys would be enough for me to trawl some forums and ask a mechanic.
In reply to snoop6060:
Unduly pessimistic I'd say, unless you have a big engine and a lead boot. You could expect 40mpg, a bit more if you drive gently, from a T5 or a Vivaro/Trafic. My current and previous vans (a 2 litre 2010 Trafic and a 1.9 litre 2003 Trafic respectively) have both averaged about 42mpg for me and I'm not the most efficient driver.
The 2003 van was getting ready to clock 250000 miles when I sold it to a local builder, who's been cheerfully abusing it for a couple of years now and it's still going strong (he is conscientious about servicing though, to be fair).
Ironically, one of the reasons I sold it was that I thought the gearbox might be on the way out - the gearbox in my new van needed to be replaced last year. Ouch.
> Good MPG means a newer van as far as I can see unless 30mpg is considered good?
Unduly pessimistic I'd say, unless you have a big engine and a lead boot. You could expect 40mpg, a bit more if you drive gently, from a T5 or a Vivaro/Trafic. My current and previous vans (a 2 litre 2010 Trafic and a 1.9 litre 2003 Trafic respectively) have both averaged about 42mpg for me and I'm not the most efficient driver.
The 2003 van was getting ready to clock 250000 miles when I sold it to a local builder, who's been cheerfully abusing it for a couple of years now and it's still going strong (he is conscientious about servicing though, to be fair).
Ironically, one of the reasons I sold it was that I thought the gearbox might be on the way out - the gearbox in my new van needed to be replaced last year. Ouch.
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:
Sounds brilliant. Did you get it from a dealer or take the plunge and buy it at auction?
> I bought an ex plod speed camera van
Sounds brilliant. Did you get it from a dealer or take the plunge and buy it at auction?
In reply to mwr72:
If you have a tailgate instead of barn doors on the back of a SWB Vivaro with a bulkhead, you're just a few mm short of getting even a single 8x4 sheet in flat on the floor. Never occurred to me until I broke the plastic trim on my tailgate finding that out.
Doesn't bother me, fortunately, and the tailgate is ace for providing a bit of shelter whilst getting organised outdoors in the rain. :O)
> Before all that went in I would have struggled to get an 8x4 sheet in there...
If you have a tailgate instead of barn doors on the back of a SWB Vivaro with a bulkhead, you're just a few mm short of getting even a single 8x4 sheet in flat on the floor. Never occurred to me until I broke the plastic trim on my tailgate finding that out.
Doesn't bother me, fortunately, and the tailgate is ace for providing a bit of shelter whilst getting organised outdoors in the rain. :O)
In reply to:
Well, not a single person regrets it then... Well one guy did but his only regret was not getting a bigger one . So, i guess the decision is made. If anyone sees an exceptionally short person with a really quite stupid haircut struggling to parallel park his van at the Cromlech boulders this summer, come say hello!
Well, not a single person regrets it then... Well one guy did but his only regret was not getting a bigger one . So, i guess the decision is made. If anyone sees an exceptionally short person with a really quite stupid haircut struggling to parallel park his van at the Cromlech boulders this summer, come say hello!
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In reply to snoop6060:
I regretted buying a Morris Marina van but then anybody that bought a Marina of any description was on a hiding to nothing. This was about 25 years ago and was the only real turkey that i have owned. Now on my second Berlingo with the 1.9diesel engine - its a bit of a slug but reliable. Its an 05 plate but with only 55k on the clock its good for work and for going to the hills and crags. Added bonus is its bright yellow, so easy to find in a crowded car park.
I regretted buying a Morris Marina van but then anybody that bought a Marina of any description was on a hiding to nothing. This was about 25 years ago and was the only real turkey that i have owned. Now on my second Berlingo with the 1.9diesel engine - its a bit of a slug but reliable. Its an 05 plate but with only 55k on the clock its good for work and for going to the hills and crags. Added bonus is its bright yellow, so easy to find in a crowded car park.
In reply to deepsoup:
Barndoors on mine, I made a roof rack and carry some visqueen so it's good, not as good as it could be though. I think I'd like a crafter next though.
Barndoors on mine, I made a roof rack and carry some visqueen so it's good, not as good as it could be though. I think I'd like a crafter next though.
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In reply to snoop6060:
Back in the day I had a Bedford CF
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedford_CF
I think I gave 2K for it, but got 10 years of use out of it.
Loved it, traveled the length and breadth of the UK in it, and had a whale of a time. Our favourite trip was a weekender up from Cornwall onto Dartmoor.
Back in the day I had a Bedford CF
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedford_CF
I think I gave 2K for it, but got 10 years of use out of it.
Loved it, traveled the length and breadth of the UK in it, and had a whale of a time. Our favourite trip was a weekender up from Cornwall onto Dartmoor.
In reply to deepsoup:
There's a little local dealer on Parsons Lane in Aston near Hathersage who seems to deal in ex-plod vans. Last time I was in there was an excellent lwb high roof transit which had been a surveillance van.
The standard of lining and accessories is excellent. I got a big print out of everything which had been done on mine since new. All main dealer original parts..
The guys in Aston advertise through auto trader.
There's a little local dealer on Parsons Lane in Aston near Hathersage who seems to deal in ex-plod vans. Last time I was in there was an excellent lwb high roof transit which had been a surveillance van.
The standard of lining and accessories is excellent. I got a big print out of everything which had been done on mine since new. All main dealer original parts..
The guys in Aston advertise through auto trader.
In reply to deepsoup:
Just to clarify any T5 that is not a camper van is the reduced speed limits. I looked into this very carefully and there is a lot of confusion about it but unless it's a camper van it will be the lower speed limit. I have a t5 khombi registered as a diesel car with the different chassis number but it's still 60. As you say though IF you have an earlier khombi with the different chassis number I doubt you'd get pulled and if the police stop you I doubt very much they'd know the specifics on the dvla site
I bought an old cheap van with a ton off issues and I love it, will be buying a newer one wthout the issues.
Cheers
Toby
Just to clarify any T5 that is not a camper van is the reduced speed limits. I looked into this very carefully and there is a lot of confusion about it but unless it's a camper van it will be the lower speed limit. I have a t5 khombi registered as a diesel car with the different chassis number but it's still 60. As you say though IF you have an earlier khombi with the different chassis number I doubt you'd get pulled and if the police stop you I doubt very much they'd know the specifics on the dvla site
I bought an old cheap van with a ton off issues and I love it, will be buying a newer one wthout the issues.
Cheers
Toby
1
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:
Interesting, ta. it'll be a year or two (hopefully) before I'm ready for a new van again, but I'll try to bear that in mind.
Interesting, ta. it'll be a year or two (hopefully) before I'm ready for a new van again, but I'll try to bear that in mind.
In reply to Toby_W:
Really? I've only looked into it quite briefly, but it seems quite clear here:
https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits
"A vehicle qualifying as a ‘car-derived van’ or ‘dual-purpose vehicle’ has the same speed limits as a car."
You can see the legal definition of a 'dual purpose vehcle here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/3/made
it looks to me like a five-seater T5 with side and rear windows in the back should fit the bill perfectly, do you know why it doesn't? Doesn't weigh more than 2040kg unladen does it?
> Just to clarify any T5 that is not a camper van is the reduced speed limits. I looked into this very carefully and there is a lot of confusion about it but unless it's a camper van it will be the lower speed limit.
Really? I've only looked into it quite briefly, but it seems quite clear here:
https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits
"A vehicle qualifying as a ‘car-derived van’ or ‘dual-purpose vehicle’ has the same speed limits as a car."
You can see the legal definition of a 'dual purpose vehcle here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/3/made
it looks to me like a five-seater T5 with side and rear windows in the back should fit the bill perfectly, do you know why it doesn't? Doesn't weigh more than 2040kg unladen does it?
In reply to deepsoup:
I think it's to do with the size of the t5 ( I think it just misses out on those measurements), car derived van (which a t5 is not) refers to caddys etc, I looked all this up and as you say you'd be unlucky to get done but there is a page that specifies all this somewhere. The newer T5s all have the same chassis numbers, mine is an older one that registers as a diesel car but it's still technically only 60 despite having four massive disk brakes and shorter stoping distance than a 4*4, go figure. The dimensions prevent it meeting the required criteria.
It may have changed from a few years ago and I may be wrong and it's a very, very, very small technicality either way that I would argue the opposite to what I've said above in the very unlikely event I'm ever pulled for speeding.
Cheers
Toby
I think it's to do with the size of the t5 ( I think it just misses out on those measurements), car derived van (which a t5 is not) refers to caddys etc, I looked all this up and as you say you'd be unlucky to get done but there is a page that specifies all this somewhere. The newer T5s all have the same chassis numbers, mine is an older one that registers as a diesel car but it's still technically only 60 despite having four massive disk brakes and shorter stoping distance than a 4*4, go figure. The dimensions prevent it meeting the required criteria.
It may have changed from a few years ago and I may be wrong and it's a very, very, very small technicality either way that I would argue the opposite to what I've said above in the very unlikely event I'm ever pulled for speeding.
Cheers
Toby
In reply to snoop6060:
Quite a lot of people have bought cars instead of vans and never regretted it.
Quite a lot of people have bought cars instead of vans and never regretted it.
In reply to Jim 1003:
Id imagine so aye. Reminds me of the bill Hicks line: none smokers die every day
Id imagine so aye. Reminds me of the bill Hicks line: none smokers die every day
In reply to Toby_W:
You're absolutely right that a T5 is not a "car derived van", I'm not suggesting it is. A "dual purpose vehicle" is not the same thing.
A van has the same speed limits as a car if it's either a "car derived van" or a "dual purpose vehicle".
The definition of a "dual purpose vehicle" sets no limit on the size of the vehicle, only it's 'unladen weight' which has to be below 2040kg.
(And as far as I can make out every model of T5 is. Certainly all the SWB ones.)
After that, if it's 4-wheel drive it qualifies as "dual purpose" straight away. If it's 2-wheel drive it has to have a rigid roof, two or more transverse passenger seats in the space behind the driver's seat, rear windows of at least 1850 square centimetres each side and 770 square centimetres at the back.
There's also a limit on the proportion of the overall floor space that the cargo area behind the rearmost passenger seat can take up, but a SWB T5 isn't physically long enough to exceed that limit and still fit the seats in anyway. (I don't think a LWB T5 is either.)
I can't find anything to suggest that the "taxation class" given on the V5 document is relevant to all this. I guess if it says your van is a car, it's a car. But I think the speed limit thing pre-dates the change in 2001 anyway - up until then, cars and vans were all just lumped together under Private/Light Goods (PLG). The old 'PLG' class was split into the six different taxation classes there are now for cars & vans (Petrol Car, Diesel Car, Alternative Fuel Car, Light Goods Vehicle, Euro 4 Light Goods Vehicle and Euro 5 Goods Vehicle), to facilitate them all paying different rates of road tax.
As far as enforcement goes, I reckon we'll know average speed cameras have started distinguishing between one type of vehicle and another when the HGVs are all sticking to their 40mph limit on single carriageways.
Happy new year to you too.
You're absolutely right that a T5 is not a "car derived van", I'm not suggesting it is. A "dual purpose vehicle" is not the same thing.
A van has the same speed limits as a car if it's either a "car derived van" or a "dual purpose vehicle".
> The dimensions prevent it meeting the required criteria.
They really don't, honest. (No need to take my word for it: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/3/made )The definition of a "dual purpose vehicle" sets no limit on the size of the vehicle, only it's 'unladen weight' which has to be below 2040kg.
(And as far as I can make out every model of T5 is. Certainly all the SWB ones.)
After that, if it's 4-wheel drive it qualifies as "dual purpose" straight away. If it's 2-wheel drive it has to have a rigid roof, two or more transverse passenger seats in the space behind the driver's seat, rear windows of at least 1850 square centimetres each side and 770 square centimetres at the back.
There's also a limit on the proportion of the overall floor space that the cargo area behind the rearmost passenger seat can take up, but a SWB T5 isn't physically long enough to exceed that limit and still fit the seats in anyway. (I don't think a LWB T5 is either.)
I can't find anything to suggest that the "taxation class" given on the V5 document is relevant to all this. I guess if it says your van is a car, it's a car. But I think the speed limit thing pre-dates the change in 2001 anyway - up until then, cars and vans were all just lumped together under Private/Light Goods (PLG). The old 'PLG' class was split into the six different taxation classes there are now for cars & vans (Petrol Car, Diesel Car, Alternative Fuel Car, Light Goods Vehicle, Euro 4 Light Goods Vehicle and Euro 5 Goods Vehicle), to facilitate them all paying different rates of road tax.
As far as enforcement goes, I reckon we'll know average speed cameras have started distinguishing between one type of vehicle and another when the HGVs are all sticking to their 40mph limit on single carriageways.
Happy new year to you too.
In reply to snoop6060:
We bought a small van that had been professionally converted and the wife and I enjoy staying in it. Despite that, we've not stayed in it once this year. I work from home so we use it as a second car but despite not needing to commute in it its still a pain in the arse. Even though it is small it's too high for many car parks and is very slow, plus you are hauling around many Kgs of wood and metal for no reason. A lot of my friends have vans and it rarely seems to make sense on a logical level but that's not itself a reason not to own one.
We bought a small van that had been professionally converted and the wife and I enjoy staying in it. Despite that, we've not stayed in it once this year. I work from home so we use it as a second car but despite not needing to commute in it its still a pain in the arse. Even though it is small it's too high for many car parks and is very slow, plus you are hauling around many Kgs of wood and metal for no reason. A lot of my friends have vans and it rarely seems to make sense on a logical level but that's not itself a reason not to own one.
Post edited at 17:32
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In reply to deepsoup:
VW seem to disagree, the guy emailed them saying he had gotten a ticket driving his khombi. There is a huge thread (the mirror to what we are saying)pinned thread on the t4/5 forums. There are several docs on the dvla site but all caravels and khombi vans have removable rear seats so don't meet the duel purpose bit.
To be honest I would not bet on either of us being 100% correct but would rather not find out by having to challenge a ticket in court.
Reference: VN-2011/03-006721
Dear Mr Harrison,
Thank you for your email submitted 22 March 2011 regarding the Highway Code.
The only occasion that a commercial vehicle can drive on a single carriageway at 60mph, is when the vehicle meets the following
criteria;
* Cars, Motorcycles and car-derived vans up to 2 tonnes maximum laden weight.
As the vehicle you own has a laden weight that is over the 2 tonne limit, it would fit into one of the below brackets;
* Goods vehicles not exceeding 7.5tonnes maximum laden weight - 50 (Single), 60 (Dual), 70 (Motorway) (FOR TRANSPORTER PANEL
VANS)
OR
* Buses, Coaches and mini-buses (not exceeding 12 meters in length - 50 (single), 60 (Dual), 70 (Motorway) (FOR TRANSPORTER
WINDOW VANS)
The information supplied above is available by viewing the Highway Code.
Kind Regards
Leon Coulter
Customer Care Advisor
Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles
Tel Number: 0800 783 4909
E-mail: customercare@
Cheers
Toby
VW seem to disagree, the guy emailed them saying he had gotten a ticket driving his khombi. There is a huge thread (the mirror to what we are saying)pinned thread on the t4/5 forums. There are several docs on the dvla site but all caravels and khombi vans have removable rear seats so don't meet the duel purpose bit.
To be honest I would not bet on either of us being 100% correct but would rather not find out by having to challenge a ticket in court.
Reference: VN-2011/03-006721
Dear Mr Harrison,
Thank you for your email submitted 22 March 2011 regarding the Highway Code.
The only occasion that a commercial vehicle can drive on a single carriageway at 60mph, is when the vehicle meets the following
criteria;
* Cars, Motorcycles and car-derived vans up to 2 tonnes maximum laden weight.
As the vehicle you own has a laden weight that is over the 2 tonne limit, it would fit into one of the below brackets;
* Goods vehicles not exceeding 7.5tonnes maximum laden weight - 50 (Single), 60 (Dual), 70 (Motorway) (FOR TRANSPORTER PANEL
VANS)
OR
* Buses, Coaches and mini-buses (not exceeding 12 meters in length - 50 (single), 60 (Dual), 70 (Motorway) (FOR TRANSPORTER
WINDOW VANS)
The information supplied above is available by viewing the Highway Code.
Kind Regards
Leon Coulter
Customer Care Advisor
Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles
Tel Number: 0800 783 4909
E-mail: customercare@
Cheers
Toby
In reply to Toby_W:
Yes, there is great confusion. I just read an article from a few years back about how dealers, civil servants, even the police seemed to be a bit baffled by the whole thing and often contradicted each other. Apparently not much has changed.
The dealer you're quoting there seems to be suggesting your Kombi is a mini-bus. That can't be right can it? I wouldn't call a 5-seater a minibus, would you? Referring to the Construction and Use regulations yet again (because they are about as definitive as it gets I think) a mini-bus is "a motor vehicle which is constructed or adapted to carry more than 8 but not more than 16 seated passengers in addition to the driver", so that seems pretty clear.
If it's registered in category "M1" and the taxation class is "Diesel Car" it seems it's not a goods vehicle either - your van might not only have the same speed limits as a car, could turn out that it actually *is* a car.
Docs other than the ones I've posted links to? Got a link?
Seems to me the "removable rear seats" is the first thing you've mentioned that dent my argument. Because the Construction and Use Regulations I've been referring to say the van must:
"be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle"
So that would hinge on what is meant by "permanently fitted" wouldn't it? If it means a seat that cannot ever be removed, you'd be right. But that seems daft to me, because all of the seats in a car, van or bus are removable - so why make that distinction?
I would contend that a proper seat, with a seat belt, bolted to proper mounting points in the floor qualifies as "permanent", even though you could unbolt it and remove it the same as you could with the front passenger seat or the driver's seat (or the brakes or the engine for that matter), and the word "permanent" in the regulation is there to distinguish proper rear seats from something like a bench or a rock & roll bed.
The thing regarding the seats above is the only thing I've posted that seems at all ambiguous tbh.
(And that doesn't come into play if the van is 4WD - it's a dual purpose vehicle even if it's a 2-seater panel van - how weird is that? I almost bought a 4WD Transit a few years back, glad I didn't, it almost certainly would have been a ludicrous money pit.)
Perhaps more to the point, it isn't just you and me - I wouldn't bet on a couple of coppers in a patrol car or a magistrate being 100% correct either. So you're probably right to be cautious. Ironically, sounds like you're more cautious than me, in my 3-seater panel van with no wiggle room to argue its "dual purpose" whatsoever. Good for you mate. :O)
> VW seem to disagree, the guy emailed them saying he had gotten a ticket driving his khombi. There is a huge thread (the mirror to what we are saying)pinned thread on the t4/5 forums.
Yes, there is great confusion. I just read an article from a few years back about how dealers, civil servants, even the police seemed to be a bit baffled by the whole thing and often contradicted each other. Apparently not much has changed.
The dealer you're quoting there seems to be suggesting your Kombi is a mini-bus. That can't be right can it? I wouldn't call a 5-seater a minibus, would you? Referring to the Construction and Use regulations yet again (because they are about as definitive as it gets I think) a mini-bus is "a motor vehicle which is constructed or adapted to carry more than 8 but not more than 16 seated passengers in addition to the driver", so that seems pretty clear.
If it's registered in category "M1" and the taxation class is "Diesel Car" it seems it's not a goods vehicle either - your van might not only have the same speed limits as a car, could turn out that it actually *is* a car.
> There are several docs on the dvla site but all caravels and khombi vans have removable rear seats so don't meet the duel purpose bit.
Docs other than the ones I've posted links to? Got a link?
Seems to me the "removable rear seats" is the first thing you've mentioned that dent my argument. Because the Construction and Use Regulations I've been referring to say the van must:
"be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle"
So that would hinge on what is meant by "permanently fitted" wouldn't it? If it means a seat that cannot ever be removed, you'd be right. But that seems daft to me, because all of the seats in a car, van or bus are removable - so why make that distinction?
I would contend that a proper seat, with a seat belt, bolted to proper mounting points in the floor qualifies as "permanent", even though you could unbolt it and remove it the same as you could with the front passenger seat or the driver's seat (or the brakes or the engine for that matter), and the word "permanent" in the regulation is there to distinguish proper rear seats from something like a bench or a rock & roll bed.
> To be honest I would not bet on either of us being 100% correct
The thing regarding the seats above is the only thing I've posted that seems at all ambiguous tbh.
(And that doesn't come into play if the van is 4WD - it's a dual purpose vehicle even if it's a 2-seater panel van - how weird is that? I almost bought a 4WD Transit a few years back, glad I didn't, it almost certainly would have been a ludicrous money pit.)
Perhaps more to the point, it isn't just you and me - I wouldn't bet on a couple of coppers in a patrol car or a magistrate being 100% correct either. So you're probably right to be cautious. Ironically, sounds like you're more cautious than me, in my 3-seater panel van with no wiggle room to argue its "dual purpose" whatsoever. Good for you mate. :O)
In reply to deepsoup:
I would read "permanently fitted" as bolted in.
Lots of people carrier type vans have quick release seats.
I would read "permanently fitted" as bolted in.
Lots of people carrier type vans have quick release seats.
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