UKC

I need a project in Yorkshire to siege in June 2017.
I have I identified a number of candidates based on being enduro style rather than bouldery as I'm fairly limited in absolute strength.

The Cement Garden (7c)
New Dawn (7c)
Tremelo (7c)
Comedy (7c)
Biological Need (7c)
Dominatrix (7c)

So...
a) What route from the above list is the easiest overall?
b) What's the least cruxy?
c) What's the most likely to be dry and climbable in early June?
d) Be the best compromise of all of the above?

Thanks in advance for any input about all things Yorkshire sport.

In reply to JLS:
a) Tremelo
b) Tremelo
c) Tremelo (might be a bit warm though)
d) Tremelo.

So obviously do New Dawn as its the hardest, most classic of the lot. Or Dominatrix as it climbs the best.

Andy F

In reply to andy farnell:


Well that sounds pretty emphatic!
I'll bump that up to the top of the list pending further opinion.
Thanks.

In reply to JLS:

Benny's Route Right-hand (7c)

You know it makes sense.

In reply to JLS:
How about
The Prow Left-hand Finish (7c)

In reply to Fraser:

NO!

a) It isn't in Yorshire.
b) It's more bouldery than any boulder I've managed at Dumby.
c) In June it'll be slippier than an eel.
d) By June all the holds may have fallen off.

In reply to Ean T:
a) It's not in Yorkshire.
b) Midges.

In reply to JLS:

Detail, details...

In reply to JLS:

The only one I succeeded on was Comedy, but have tried Dominatrix and New Dawn. So can answer for those 3.

Comedy, pretty much pure PE. 22 moves. A V5(ish) into a V4(ish)
Dominatrix - Almost Spanish in style, no hard crux
New Dawn - V7(?) start, into a good rest, then pumpy endurance climbing on big holds/bad feet

a) Comedy
b) Dominatrix
c) New Dawn
d) No idea of those three, but Tremolo seems a popular first 7c at least?

In reply to conorcussell:

Comedy is easy if you're strong, very burly jug pulling.
Dominatrix is very enduro, but the final pull is the redpoint crux and quite droppable despite the huge rest just below.
Tremelo has a long technical crux but there are a number of ways through it.
New Dawn crux is more like V6. The rests are good and the section traversing under and through the bulges are fine, if pumpy, when you sort your feet.
Biological has a hard crux by the second bolt then pumpy climbing to the bulge with a few burly pulls to finish.
Not done Cement Garden but I believe its steady to some tough moves at 3/4 height.

Andy F

In reply to conorcussell:

I think the V7 crux would put New Dawn down to the bottom of the list.
But maybe Dominatrix quite high.

So plan of attack...

1) Tremelo
2) Dominatrix
3) Comedy
4) Cement Garden ?
4) Biological Need ?
6) New Dawn

In reply to JLS:
I wouldn't write off New Dawn. The start is V5/6 tops.

In reply to Fraser:



What a route

In reply to JLS:
Tremelo is very doable for a trad punter like me, came very close to doing it last year after a few seasons. The crux isn't that hard on its own and it's more of a stamina route overall and not that steep.

Had a few goes at Dominatrix as well. Pretty steep but plenty of large holds. Two crux sections for me, one about half way up and the other right at the top and would definitely be the redpoint crux. Felt harder than Tremelo but possibly because it's less my style.

Hope to finish off both of these in 2017... might see you there!

In reply to JLS:

How about Mescalito to the left of New Dawn? The boulder problem start is easier (V4/5 ish), hard to work out but not so bad when you know how. Technical, small footholds, crimps. Don't think it's 7c+ either. A lot of people find New Dawn harder because of it's more powerful crux. It's less steep than the Kilnsey routes so if you like technical climbing... ?

Haven't done Tremelo but as a line it's the least inspiring of the lot.

What are your strengths and weaknesses? If you want something that suits you these are all very different styles of routes.

In reply to andy farnell:

Cheers again.
I'll probably come down for a day in May and dog up a few things and see what seems most probable.
At least now I've got a fair idea of how the land lies.

In reply to JLS:

If your coming from Scotland then Super Duper Dupont and Phantom Zone at Chapel Head Scar are both excellent and closer. Access will depend on the bird ban, so may be worth thinking about later in the season.

Andy F

In reply to kwoods:


More local for me than a Yorkshire project but haven't tried it yet. I'll maybe give it a shot this season, with jls belaying of course!

In reply to stp:

My only strength is my persistance.
I can generally find some weird sequence that doesn't involve pulling hard and can engineer a fair level of fitness.
Definately, not a strong boulderer.
I've only managed two or three 7c's before after long sieges but you've got to be optimistic the next one will go easier...
Yorkshire isn't so far away, I can always come back if a send isn't far off.

In reply to andy farnell:
Yeah, I can get to Chapel Head relatively quickly but just keen to have done "something" hardish in Yorkshire.
Edit: Got local projects lined up already.

In reply to Fraser:

I've tried it a couple of times now.
The holds seem particularly glassy. With my dry skin I get no friction.

In reply to JLS:
Plenty of info from others but just to add on New Dawn, start is V5/6 and has a number of options, assuming you can find a way through it then the redpoint crux is definitely the pumpy climbing at the end of the traverse, endurance on big holds with poor feet,

I did Cement Garden earlier this year and really enjoyed it, hardish moves between decent shakes makes it an endurance route, crux is steepish undercutting into the crack at the top. Bolts are a bit spaced and feels very Gordale, with exposure and rock that's not totally perfect, but good enough in general to make an excellent route, Did it quickly for me so possibly on the softer side of 7c. Climbed it in May and should be climable from spring onwards as long as not too wet, gets afternoon sun but Gordale is often windy which can help on warmer days.

In reply to Ian Patterson:
Cheers, that's encouraging. Particularly, nice to hear Cement Garden does sound like my type of thing. If I have a style then "hardish moves between decent shakes" is probably it. The final venue choice will depend on prevailing conditions and be the subject of negotiations with my climbing partner so good to have a Gordale option as well as Malham and Kilnsey options.

In reply to JLS:


I'll save you some time: "They're all too reachy!!!"

In reply to Fraser:

Indeed

In reply to JLS:


Sounds more like a Malham route then. Less steep and generally more options. But more fingery too. Or Cement Garden maybe (though I've not done it).

In reply to stp:

Cheers. Looking forward to finding out.

In reply to Fraser:

I quite liked it! In a bouldery sort of way.

In reply to conorcussell:

New dawn start v7? What pish! If that were the case it'd be 8a/+

To the OP.
Tremelo has lost a block at the rooflet and isn't as easy as Farnell makes out it to be. However, he is spot on the money with New dawn being the most classic, but my personal favourite is Dominatrix

In reply to Ally Smith:

Dominatrix is the one that looms largest in my memory too - it has a "wildness" that the others lack. But one thing to bear in mind is that it would be a pig to work for an extended period. It is quite sparingly bolted with lots of sideways travel up hanging grooves / over roofs - so falls tend to be long and swinging. If you fall off the tricky finish you can end up hanging in free space and unable to regain the rock - so have to descend all the way to the ground and reclimb / dog to strip (not nice when exhausted at the end of the day). Not a problem if you are a quick learner / have a few grades in hand, but I would not enjoy session after session of it.

Biological is probably physically harder, but less intimidating and easier to break down - lots of little hard bits separated by shake-outs (good beta is very helpful). But is is a bit more conditions dependent than Dominatrix - the fingery start is painful and skin-eating in humid weather. Comedy is a short, boulderer's / thugs route and completely unlike any of your other options. Tremelo is a fine route, but not as classic as New Dawn - you will never forget sprinting through the bulges and having a "dark midnight of the soul" trying to get stood on the little ledge.

To be honest though, deliberating about such things will likely be a pointless exercise. In my experience, the routes choose you, not vice versa. Malham / Kilnsey / Gordale suit completely different conditions / times of year - it's no good fixating on New Dawn if you can only visit the area during a very hot spell, when Malham would be a furnace, and working a Gordale or Kilnsey route would be far more enjoyable.

In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:

Superb post.

Mick

In reply to Ally Smith:

Cheers. Not great news about Tremelo's lost hold. Definately not ruled New Dawn out.

In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:

Good stuff. I agree you never know how things will be. In the end, I'll need to go and pull on a few things to really understand what I'm up against. However this thread, with posts like yours, sheds a far brighter light on the options, than the guide book does. Thanks.

In reply to JLS:

Aye, chances are the routes you really want to get on will be either too warm, too wet, or too busy, and you'll end up doing Metal Guru or Serious Young Toads (both fine routes, mind).

By the way, a bonus with New Dawn is that if you make short work of it, then you're set for Mescalito as a 7c+ follow-up (they share the same mid-section). Or, if that goes easy / you are feeling ambitious, you also have a short cut to 8a with Baboo Baboo (same first half as New Dawn). The flip side though is that as all of these routes share bolts, you can end up doing a lot of waiting to get on your project - especially if people are insisting on having top-ropes.

.... god I want to get back to Malham / Kilnsey.... roll on the Spring.... so much to do... so little talent and health!

In reply to Ally Smith:
Do you know when it lost a hold, was it in the second half of 2016?

In reply to Misha:

Tremelo lost the block on either 31 March 2013, or the weekend after - as it occurred during the session I had at Malham after ticking it off myself (which according to my logbook was on 30/3/13). I was belaying a friend on Appetite or Taking the Space at the time and the block hit the ground a yard or two away (with a bizarre whiff of cordite as I recall). I distinctly remember firstly being grateful that I got it ticked with the rest-jug still in situ... and then being grateful to be alive!

In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:
Scary! You mean it just fell off by itself as opposed to someone pulling it off? So it's no harder now than the last time I tried it last year (which is hard enough for a trad punter like me). I can get a knee bar just above the rooflet which pretty much provides a hands free rest, so it can't have got that much harder.

In reply to Misha:

Someone was on the route when it fell - so I suspect it was pulled, rather than just gave up its fight against gravity. The block was to the left of the most direct sequence so its loss has likely not made any of the "mandatory" moves any harder; it more provided a quick, very slightly off-line shake out before setting up to enter the crux section (though I have not been on the route since, so might be wrong). If you can knee bar there, you probably would not have used the block anyway - it did not provide anything comparable to a hands-off rest (I have never seem anyone get a knee-bar up there - you must have very short or flexible legs!).

In reply to thebigfriendlymoose: I've been on Tremelo since the block fell off. It didn't seem to make much difference to the difficulty. My pathetic fitness and niggling injuries did however make it seem much harder than I remembered.

Andy F

In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:
Ah, I thought you meant the rooflet just after the crux, not before.

In reply to Misha:

God no, once you get the LH crimp below the "proper" roof it's all over, regardless of kneebars. To be honest I found my big problem with Tremelo was seepage on the slopey/pinchy RH hold on the crux. Every time I got close to sending, rain wiped out that hold, forced weeks off (it was a very wet year), and I had to re-wire my sequence.

In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:
Bad luck there. I still found it tricky above the crux in places, though easier of course.