UKC

My daughter just came back from a multi day winter camping/bivying trip in the Alps, where she felt a bit cold in her ME Glacier 500 sleeping bag. I am therefore looking for a ultra light down summer/inner bag as her birthday present, and have stumbled across Cumulus sleeping bags from Poland.

I am especially interested in their Magic125 or Xlite200 models, which come without a hood or zipper. Seems ideal for an inner bag, as in my experience two hoods are a lot of faff. However, the competition (Yeti, Western Mountaineering) seems to stick with these features, presumably for a reason.

Any experiences?

Thanks,

CB

In reply to cb294:

Alpkit Cloud Cover?

In reply to DaveHK:

Close, but looks a bit too bulky for the purpose.

Thanks,

CB

In reply to cb294:

Ouch, a 500g fillweight bag must have been chilly! lol

No experience with these. Nice idea though and I am going to look into them.

I would probably take a lighter bag as a liner being a typical bloke. But then again, I would probably buy a bigger bag to begin with and save the faff. Sorry for meandering and thread derailment.

In reply to cb294:

PhD liner bags don't have zips either

In reply to Dr.S at work:

Thanks, but PhD bags are unfortunately slightly out of range for a birthday present...

CB

In reply to zimpara:

No, she was fine, just a little cold. Temperatures did not drop below -15°C before Christmas. Some of the other students on the trip (who had thicker bags anyway) even offered her their liner bags, but she was too stubborn to accept/ warm enough to refuse....

I have used my own Glacier 500 down to -25° without any problems (wearing my down jacket and insulating trousers inside the bag), but then I am almost twice her weight and anyway don´t "do cold".

CB

In reply to cb294:

Perhaps, but as an example of a brand with a good reputation using a similar design I thought it might be of interest

In reply to cb294:

wouldnt you usually just sleep in a down jacket or gilet if the sleeping bag was to cold on its own?

In reply to cb294:

What sleeping mat did she use? Another mat and an overquilt will sort it. As will decent weight merino baselayers.

A down bag within her current bag might be a bit tight and mightn't reach full loft, maybe one of the Sea To Summit Thermolite liners would help?

In reply to cb294:

I've used double bags a fair bit in the past, something of a different shape is important. From personal experience, a cheapish wide fitting synthetic bag over the down bag might work better than a thin down bag inside, but fit is really important.

In reply to cb294:

Think you should look into a primaloft type overbag , i got one from the Mec coop in Canada pretty cheap...
Adds around 4 degrees and combined with a fleece liner...makes a massive difference.

In reply to cb294:

A lot of heat is lost to the ground so maybe a better mat would help?

Cheers Davey

In reply to Dr.S at work:

Good point, it does that for sure.

CB

In reply to Pesda potato:

I would normally, but a light liner bag can make a three season bag better suitable for winter camping, without having to invest in a second, heavy bag (or lugging a winter suitable bag around in summer).

CB

In reply to Dell and Mountain Lama:

Mats are not the issue, she has (and will most likely have used) a 3.5 cm Thermarest Pro and a 19 mm PU roller mat, same combination I normally use for winter bivies or camping (except I have a folding rather than rolling mat).

CB

In reply to Chris Beck and TobyA:

I have thought about overbags, but have not tried one. What I have heard, though, is that simply sticking another bag on the outside may cause issues with condensation within the main insulating layer, and is therefore better used in combination with some vapour barrier close to the body (disgusting but very efficient in keeping you warm!).

Any truth in that? Sounds at least plausible to me.

CB

In reply to cb294:

When my brother was in the Army doing all kinds of ruffy-tuffy stuff he swore by his Goretex bivvy bag, saying it increased his warmth massively.

In reply to Rigid Raider:

Goretex is somewhat breathable, so hopefully less of an issue with condensation, especially when it is cold outside. My daughter already has a bivy bag, though, so I guess I will stick with my initial idea of a down inner bag.

In reply to cb294:

I understood that the theory goes that the overbag effectively pushes the dewpoint out from the body and beyond the outer of the down bag. Without an overbag escaping moisture vapour will cool and condense either on the outside of the down bag where it meets cold air (bad) or even inside it if cool enough (also bad). A synthetic overbag will in theory protect the down bag from getting wet.

I'd be interested to know if this is tried and tested in somewhere damp like Scotland because it sounds like a good winter camping down bag saver.

In reply to Siward:

The position of the dew point and freezing point will largely depend on the temperature inside the tent. If it is cold enough both will lie inside the insulating layer. Because this cannot be avoided below some temperature, several companies that make sleeping systems for extremely cold environments include vapour barrier liners to retain the inevitable moisture close to where it is produced, keeping the insulation dry. Same principle as VBL socks.

However, this is probably relevant at temperatures well below what we are talking about here (i.e., winter bivies in the Alps in reasonable weather, or at a push for single nights when retreating, not winter expeditions to the Karakorum or Greenland).

CB

In reply to cb294:
How petite is your daughter? I bought a standard size Cumulus lightweight bag for my son a while ago. No complaints at all about the quality, and fine for child, but for me (six foot, 80kgs) it's a very snug fit indeed.

Also, inner & outer bags are generally sized & cut to be used as a pair. If her existing bag isn't generously sized, then the loft on the inner bag might be compressed to the point of uselessness.

In reply to AlanLittle:

This is exactly the info I was after! My daughter is 170cm, 55ish kg, so has plenty of room in her normal bag (which fits me as well, 179cm 100kg +x after Christmas).

Thanks,

CB

In reply to cb294:

I use a Rab Module 100 bag over the top of my normal 550 fill down bag when things get cold and that seems to work pretty well (Only down on the top and Pertex on the bottom).
As some one has said before what's insulating you from the ground will make a huge difference. I generally use a ridge rest foam mat bivying as it cannot go flat and sometimes put an air matress on top. There bulky but The Z mats fits snugly to the outside of a bag and are light. This works for me, but there will be other good ideas out there too.

In reply to Siward:

Wot he said! See my Sea to Summit bag review from a few years back (click on my profile and they are listed) for more on this.

In reply to Siward:



I use that system - a cheap 1-2 season synthetic over my posh down bag. (AJ Kompakt and PHD minimums 300) Total weight is a bit disappointing at around 1.6kg but I've used it in cold and damp conditions and been very warm. Psychologically reassuring as well.

In reply to StevieH:

As I said above, this (or something like it) is what we are using, Thermarest pro mats on top of a foam mat (roll type for my daughter, folding type for me).

No problems with condensation/ice inside the down or outer bag below, say -20°C?

CB

In reply to TobyA:

Just read your review, thanks! One point you raise is exactly what I am wondering about: How do you ensure to move the dew point away from the inner down layer. Actually, my daughter also has a medium weight Mammut/Ajungilak synthetic bag as well (that she mainly used for canoe trips in Sweden, where it can tolerate getting wet better than a down bag). It is a bit bulkier than her ME down bag but otherwise warm and comfy. This would probably be ideal to go with a light down inner bag for winter use. I am just wondering if, after a few days, you don´t end up with a solid lump of ice and fiber....

Cheers,

CB

In reply to cb294:
What about buying a new warmer sleeping bag rather than a liner bag, by shopping around for a deal?

Just suggesting it as sometimes one's original plan isn't always the simplest...

In reply to cb294:
What about the Sea to Summit sleeping bag liners? The Reactor Extreme is it? Should add some warmth to the bag and maybe purchase a simple half zip non hooded lightweight down smock?

In reply to Timmd:

I like the liner idea as it gives you flexibility (and an ultra light bag for summer use). If my daughter needed a warmer bag (and there would be a few days head start to organize things) she could always borrow one of my wife´s warm down bags.

CB

In reply to Jimbob11:

That looks like a possible alternative, I will have a look!

Thanks,

CB

In reply to cb294:

That makes a lot of sense, it was just a ponder. I often get 'half way towards' something and suddenly think of an easier way.