UKC

I've seen somebody ask about this axe before but thought I'd try again. I'm quite interested in the idea of an all purpose axe that can cope happily with grade II-III maybe occasional IV but has a sliding hand rest for easy plunging in snow (piolet canne if you prefer). The obvious choice is I guess the Petzl Sum'tec, but I'd prefer something where you can clip a spring leash into the sliding hand grip. I always find that without that it's awkward to get the leash working well for both walking and technical climbing without constant adjustment. That appears to leave the Salewa and the Grivel light machine. The Grivel looks to have a very shallow pick angle to me, and sin of sins has teeth on the top of the head! I've handled one and thought it felt awful! So that leaves the Salewa North-X. It looks to tick many boxes for me, but I've never seen one in the flesh and can't find any reviews. Anybody tried one or have any other suggestions?

Lee

In reply to thlcr1: I owned one for about a day and sent it back (albeit without actually using it outside). I didn't like the shape of the pick - when holding it in the hand by the head of the axe with the adze facing forward, a sharp protruding tooth on the uppermost section of the pick made holding it uncomfortable and was a potential glove shredder. Also, I found that the sliding rest did not stay is position when pressure was applied. I really wanted this axe to work but it wasn't for me.

In reply to thlcr1: Funny, as it happens, I ended up buying the Petzl Sum'Tec....

In reply to johnt:

Cheers for that. They were both points that I was worried about. How difficult can it be to make an axe head that fits your hand but still works for technical climbing

Lee

In reply to thlcr1: I'm not sure why they put that last (large) tooth on the pick but it spoilt it for me.

In reply to johnt:

Yes, they made a big thing on the promo video of not putting teeth on it so it would be comfy to hold. Thought as I watched it, what about that b*****y big tooth at the back?

Lee

In reply to thlcr1:

I've used it outside for a few alpine peaks and Scottish winter routes. I love it. Compared to my alpine flys it swings alot better and doesn't dinner plate ice as much, the tip has better clearance on mixed and the hand rest is more comfortable. The rated leashes are great for snow slope belays in hard neve. I've not had a problem with tooth clearance in any rotation while holding during walking. It is easy to leave the leashes clipped and store down the back of the rucksack without them being too tight.

I would say that the axe is most suited to alpine routes and replaces the flys on up to 50 degree ice. I'm hoping to climb Vs this year and I'm going to get something more like the edelrid rage as the northx isn't great aggressive enough. Personally I'd get a set for easy climbing they are ace.

In reply to JohnBson:

Thanks, thats really useful info and quite encouraging. Just a quick question, you mention alpine flys? I've got a set of DMM flys and I've heard of Climbing Technology Fly hooks but I'm not sure wich axes your referring too?

Lee

In reply to johnt:


What do you reckon to the Sum'tec? They look nice to me, just thought the sliding hand rest with leash attachment looked a better design on the Salewa.

Lee

In reply to thlcr1: It's a lovely axe to swing and carries well - i'm not sure how robust the plastic rest will turn out to be but it hasn't let me down so far (albeit with relatively little use).

In reply to thlcr1:

I've been using a pair of Sum'tecs for the last few Scottish winters, on gullies from I to III/IV. As johnt says, it's a lovely axe to swing and the head is very comfortable to hold in walking mode. The shafts are sufficiently bent to be good for daggering up grade 1 ground and I haven't had any problem with the Trigrests slipping. The one downside is what you spotted: if you use spring leashes, they're best attached to the hole in the head of the axe on easy ground but that can limit your reach on steep ice. Salewa's idea of a leash attachment on the slider is better in principle, but I've no experience of how it works in practice.
Rob F

In reply to rif:

Thanks for the input. Pretty much what id thought, Sum'tec looks great but how to rig the spring leashes. Ive messed around with leash configurations a bit with the DMM Flys. Attaching to the spike is a non starter on easy ground and as you say attaching to head limits your reach on technical ground. Best answer I've found is to rig a sling over a shoulder with loops tied in to attach to the harness crab and another at chest height to attach the leashes. Sort of works but awkward to arrange and bit of a pain in use. Wish there was some sort or retrofit for the Sum'tec that allowed a leash to slide up the shaft. Ermm that's got me thinking about what could be jerry rigged.

Lee

In reply to johnt:

I've heard a few stories about trig rests breaking on Quarkes but not specifically Sum'tecs. I've also heard about spikes/heads coming loose on both. I guess time will tell on that one but is presumably caved by the guarantee.

Lee

In reply to johnt:


Another thought, how comfy is the plastic rest. I guess given the absence of any sort of grip, that it carries a lot of your weight on technical ground?

Lee

In reply to thlcr1: The rest is comfy enough but without it you would just be gripping the shaft on technical ground - there is no rubber grip obviously but the paint does have a very light textured finish. I didn't buy them solely for technical climbing anyway - think of it as a lightweight stripped down hybrid axe. I would recommend looking at both axes and see what they feel like in the hand. You may not like either of them...

In reply to thlcr1:

I have one original trigrest and one of the current style. Both can be used either (1) down near the spike to support the heel of your hand or (2) higher up to support your trigger finger, but the original version works better in mode 2 and the new version better in mode 1 -- the orange lever gets slightly in the way if you use it below your trigger finger.
I've been very happy with them at the lowly grades I do these days -- a big improvement on the 1970s-style down-curved axes that I'd been using since binning my Terrordactyls.

In reply to rif:

Ahh you had Terrors as well. I remember the pulped knuckles well . I hadn't realised there were two types of trigrest. I'll take a look at that

Lee

In reply to johnt:

>I would recommend looking at both axes and see what they feel like in the hand. You may not like either of them...

Wish I could, but can't find anybody who stocks them. Thought somebody would have Sumtecs but no luck so far. I've tried a few of the more technical axes in shops (I like the feel of the Quarke and the Edelrid Riot), but the only all-round axe I've seen was the Grivel light machine which I wasn't keen on.

Lee

In reply to thlcr1:
I got my Sum'tecs from Needlesports, and their website shows they still stock them.

In reply to thlcr1: I bought a pair of Salewa North-X axes mail order from Barrabes in Spain along with a few other items I couldn't get in the UK (i think postage was about a fiver). I kept the other items but the axes went back - it wasn't too expensive to return them as the return address is a depot near Manchester Airport.
I ended up buying the Sum'Tec's from Needlesports...

In reply to johnt:

In reply to rif:

I'll try and visit Needle sport sometime. Annoyingly I was in there a few weeks ago but wasn't looking at axe's at the time :-/
Lee

In reply to thlcr1:

Just noticed the Camp/Cassins x-light. Looks quite nice, BUT it looks to me like the handrest wont slide below the top of the grip? On the other hand it can apparently accept other grips for more technical climbs, but that doesn't exactly help to quickly swap on route.

Lee

In reply to thlcr1:

Dmm alpine flys. They were are old model flys but with a proper hand grip and rest below the pinky. I added trigrests and tape to the handles to make them better, it didn't work. Also replaced the heads with new model ones last year.

A thought if you don't like one of the teeth on the north x why don't you just file it off? Easily done. Pick modifications are quite common.

In reply to thlcr1:

The salewa system is rated for 5kn loads meaning you can use them for backup Pro or snow belays with ease. As for the rest itself it can move but I've found that either I have it at the top or at the bottom or if daggering just on the curve, can't say I've noticed it being a problem while climbing, they aren't really tools for matching like you would on a Nomic.

I've not used the sumtec but it's a less burly axe from what I remember.

In reply to JohnBson:

Sounds like your moded Alpine Flys are not dissimilar to my new ones. Good idea on the tooth, not going to effect strength rounding it off, and I can't recall teeth nearvthe shaftbevwr being particularly important. The movable handrest with 5Kn rated attachment was one of the major selling points for me. Very useful. Thanks for the info.

Lee