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Training strategy

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 35thelodge 03 Jan 2017

So I've had a bit of a read around but wanted someone with a bit more experience to make sure I'm thinking along the right lines.

Bouldering wise I can tick most v4s in a couple of tries. Can get about 50% of V5s within a session and can get most of them eventually. Not really got any V6s yet.

Routes wise I can lead 6a/b toprope 6c (occasionally).

I want to get better at routes. From what I've read assuming the grades are not soft I should be a bit above this route wise. I know this is partly my lead head as I'm much better on toprope. But I think might be mostly endurance as I can always do the moves I just get too pumped in the second half or after a harder sequence. (Like pumped of no return not getting on another route for 20mins pump)

So my research suggests lots of 4x4s probably around 5/6a or some circuits again not too hard but so I can get a good bit of volume in.

Hoping someone can tell me if I'm heading in the he right direction? Thanks in advance!
Post edited at 17:06
 zv 03 Jan 2017
In reply to 35thelodge:

Excellent stuff! It seems like you are doing quite well.

If you want to get better at leading especially if you haven't done that much leading before I recommend doing a lot leading. Like a lot of it, try to bridge that gap between your top rope grade and lead grade.

Some suggestions for things to work on - breathing when leading - can literally be worth a few weeks of endurance training if you just breathe throughout the routes.

Is your technique good, do you place your feet at the correct place the first time, are your clipping stances appropriate? Have you trained clipping from below, and at waist level?

How many falls per session do you take? If you have a good belayer, a good lead session at the wall should generally involve some pushing on hard routes that would make you fall. Otherwise you're staying within comfort zone.

I think at this level, generally I would do all of the stamina training just by leading and meanwhile you'll be developing a good head and becoming a solid leader.

It's not a quick fix at all though, so just be happy at small gains each session.

Good luck!


P.S. Also if you're curious - you're bouldering grade suggest you are very strong - if your endurance and leading skills were spot on you'd definitely be crushing 7a/7a+, maybe even higher. Long indoor 7bs rarely have a crux above V4 in my experience. Have fun!
 Jon Stewart 03 Jan 2017
In reply to 35thelodge:

With those bouldering grades, you're a good climber, you just need to learn how to climb routes and gain endurance.

Ditch the top-rope - that's for trying hard moves, which you can already do. Do a bit of clip-drop every session while warming up, learning to get comfortable with falling (takes a lot of exposure). If you can bare it, never clip the belay, just let go of the finishing jug without clipping. (A valuable halfway house is to very quickly clip the belay and let go as you do so, not turning to your belayer and checking everything's alright, them taking in etc. Do explain what you're going to do to your belayer before you set off though!).

Here's one approach: decide whether your session is volume or hard routes. If it's volume, do 20 routes or more, all leading. Blocks of 4 or 5, all fairly within your comfort zone, aiming for a 3/5 pump. You need to find a partner who's doing similar, or someone doing serious redpoint burns who needs a good rest between each one. This is basically 4x4s. You can do the same route multiple times or chop and change as you like. It doesn't matter, just do 20 routes that you don't fail on, or get silly pumped so you have to rest.

Or of it's hard routes, do hard routes! Warm up doing your clip-drop/no belay finish for 4 or so routes. Then get on ones you can't quite do first go (but you get more than half way), and have a few goes. Really try so you're falling off actually trying (the clip-drop stuff helps get to this point).

3 sessions a week split between volume and hard routes should have you in the 7s in a few weeks - you've done the hard bit by getting to V5, this bit's easy!

 stp 03 Jan 2017
In reply to 35thelodge:
The 4x4 protocol was originally for boulder problems and there's nothing magical about the fact it sounds like a four wheel drive car.

For me I think with endurance the key thing is getting lots of volume. This means not only doing lots of mileage per session but but doing plenty of sessions per week. I've found I can improve my endurance significantly in about a week if I get 5 fairly decent sessions in. These could be just 2 - 3 hours long provided you don't rest too much, and do around ten pumpy routes. And the key to not resting too much is not to get so completely pumped you can't do anything for about 30 mins. You do want to get pumped a fair bit though. Just make sure you're recovered for your next route by the time your partner has finished theirs - so maybe 10 mins or less. As you get fitter you'll find your recovery between routes also improves.

I personally wouldn't bother with 5s and 6as. Try doing the 6c's (along with some 6bs and 6b+s) but with a rest or two on the rope as required. You could even try harder sometimes with more rests - some 7as for instance with rests. I think with your bouldering strength you should be fine. Gradually whittle down the rests as you get fitter. It'll give you some good goals and keep your strength up too. Personally I'd find doing the same easy routes (as in 4x4) over and over rather boring.

However the thing is you need to be OK with falling. If you stop climbing because you're scared rather than fatigued that'll mess everything up. Take some practice falls at the start of each session. Then when climbing mix up top roping and leading. You want to be climbing pretty much the same when leading as you do when top roping. So mixing the two will tell you where you're at with that.
Post edited at 18:04
1
 alx 03 Jan 2017
In reply to 35thelodge:

I would agree with the posters in that you have the strength to climb harder routes. Endurance takes 6-8 weeks to build with lots of work but you should see results within a couple of weeks.

One thing not mentioned previously is your mental training. Once you are borked with the pump you tend to get tunnel vision/gripped and getting up a V1/2 in this state will be an effort, practice getting into this state then calming your heart rate down and relaxing the muscles on the climb - perhaps fabricate a resting stance on the route if none is available and then climb on for another set.

In reply to 35thelodge:

What Jon and STP say above.
Have a warm up on 6as, but your 4x4s should be a lot harder
Throw in at least one 3x3 session for power endurance each week - overhanging 6cs if you can with a couple of rests.
Given your bouldering grades, you'll be crushing 7s soon.
good luck!!
 tim_broadhurst 03 Jan 2017
Thanks all that's really helpful

 tim_broadhurst 04 Jan 2017
In reply to tim_broadhurst:

Oops pressed send too soon - meant to say

Thanks that's very helpful! Sounds like I'm a carbon copy of above poster. I pretty much haven't fallen on lead ever. Whilst I'm sure the actual act is easy is there a way to do it and not injur yourself. Overhangs I'm less bothered about but can see myself scraping down verticals with my face.
 3leggeddog 04 Jan 2017
In reply to 35thelodge:

Really interesting as I appear to be the complete opposite.

I can climb 7a, 7a+. The other day I tried bouldering and couldn't get past v2.

Pretty obvious what both of us need to do.
 Cake 05 Jan 2017
In reply to tim_broadhurst:

You can practice falling off vertical walls really deliberately at first. You only have to push away a tiny bit and you go a good distance away from the wall. Also, you can practice getting your hands and feet in a braced position ready for coming into the wall again. It took me loads of goes just to stop myself grabbing the rope each time. Your hands are a lot more use for stopping your head and ribs hitting holds. This is, perhaps, all obvious, but I had to be told! All this you can practice on your clip-drop that Jon suggested. The higher you are, the more comfortable it is, and also, get your belayer to not take the rope in really tight. That can be uncomfortable too.

Obviously all that stuff won't work on overhangs because you won't even but the wall.

Cake

P.S. I'm not there yet. I still look at my belayer before I take any decent lob, but we're all trying aren't we?
 Siderunner 06 Jan 2017

Lots of great training advice already.

On the tactics front, worth thinking about:
- pacing (faster saves energy on steep routes)
- how dynamically you climb (often people who're strong and don't fallmuch are too static on lead)
- do you find and milk rests well?
- do you consciously relax and grip as lightly as possible whenever pausing between moves?

I reckon it's worth your while concentrating on each of those for a route at a time when doing big volumes of 6a/bs. Then later on when you're taking multiple goes at 6c (say), try and bring that practise to bear.

PS clipping late, ie at waist level, also good to practise and aspire to.
Post edited at 09:45
In reply to 35thelodge:
You don't mention how long you've been climbing, how often you currently climb each month (sessions per month is generally a more useful metric than looking on a weekly basis) or anything about your other sporting activities or background.

As far as 'strategy' is concerned at the highest level the steps are generally:
- climb enough (but not too much)
- approach each individual session sensibly (warm up, don't over exert, listen to your body, think about hydration, food, recovery etc.)
- specificity; match the majority of sessions to your main objectives. Think initially about numbers of moves and any particular weaknesses including mental and tactical.
- cycle through harder weeks of training (volume and intensity) with easier weeks

Most people worry too much about what exactly to do each session but remembering the bigger picture is more important - specificity plus cycles of progressively increasing training impact.

So for you, the most basic question is probably how many times per month should you be climbing. Based on your lead grade the normal answer would be around 12 (grade 6s >> 3 times per week) but your bouldering grade suggests perhaps more. How long you've climbed for and what other exercise you do might influence this decision.

Assuming you are approaching your sessions sensibly and have given some consideration to stretching, antagonist and perhaps core exercises the next issue is specificity. If you want to get better at leading, it's very simple, do lots of leading.

Once you are doing 'specific' sessions the final stage is to look at improving the impact of the sessions on both an individual and cumulative basis This is where most of the replies, so far have all focused but that is looking at specifics rather than overall strategy.

To improve the impact of your sessions the first thing to consider is 'quality' or 'form'. If you're not climbing well all that will happen is that you ingrain bad habits. Therefore, definitely sort out leading easier routes really smoothly before trying anything too desperate. Lots of great suggestions already on the thread on things to consider.

Next you need to steadily up either the volume, the intensity or both. Both is ideal, but remember good form is more important so it may prove easier to up the volume (reps, shorter rests, long sessions, more sessions etc.) rather than jump up in grade too much. Keep focused on the end goal of cumulative training impact and don't get too bogged down in details or lack of immediate improvement.

Finally you need to remember that after stepping things up as much as you can you'll need easier or rest weeks. Often it's only after a proper rest that you actually realise the gains you've made from recent training.

HTH

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