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Rest time

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 swifty 03 Jan 2017
Hey,

Hope everyone has had a great xmas and new year!

Just a quick question.. How long do you guys need, rest time after you have climbed a pretty high grade for your level of climbing?

I am just asking as I am never to sure how long I should chill for until I should give the climb another shot? I always seem to get back on it way to early and give the climb a really poor attempt!

 john arran 03 Jan 2017
In reply to swifty:

How long is a piece of string? For a very short boulder problem the rest needed may no more than a few minutes. For single-pitch routes anything between maybe 15 minutes and several hours. And big-wall or Alpine routes will very likely need several days or more between serious attempts.
 Michael Gordon 03 Jan 2017
In reply to swifty:

Surely it depends how tired you are after the first attempt? If defeated purely by technicalities then probably not too long; if pumped stupid then that could well be it for the day.
 stp 03 Jan 2017
In reply to swifty:
It's easy to get back on too soon because resting is boring and climbing isn't. Sometimes you can distract yourself, brushing holds etc. to force yourself to rest longer. Are you talking about bouldering here?

I've heard a rough guide suggested that you should rest ten times longer than you were climbing for. So if you're on the wall for 20s you should rest for 200s or about 3 min. But of course this is a very rough estimate. If most of the climbing was easy then you fell because of a foot slip for instance, that would be very different to where every move was at your physical limit.

The other thing you can do is mixing up problems. Try say a roof problem for a few goes then move on to something totally different, like a slab or vertical wall. Then go back to the roof again after a few tries. You'll still need to rest between tries but hopefully not quite as long.

Finally if you're getting worse or feeling weaker on a problem obviously you need more rest.
Post edited at 23:03
 Si dH 04 Jan 2017
In reply to swifty:
Stp's 10x rule is too short for me if I'm working something at my limit. The idea of doing other types of problems also doesn't work unless there is genuinely something there that doesn't use any fingerstrength. Usually I find this is a bad idea. If I am climbing on my own, I take a book or something I can get the internet on!

It's obviously a personal thing, but as a rough idea of my own rest times on something hard (and steep):

a) short 'up' boulder problem 5-15 minutes (5 minutes would be for a single hard move)
b) longer traverse problem 15-30 minutes
c) short route (≤15-20m) 30-45 minutes

I don't climb any longer sport routes.

My criteria before getting back on are to have the minimum rest time as per above AND (not or) feel completely rested / recovered.

I usually go for the shorter end of the ranges above earlier in a session but it depends on the problem.

Obviously we all succumb to temptation occasionally...
Post edited at 07:19
OP swifty 06 Jan 2017
In reply to stp:

This is mainly single pitch sport climbs at my local gym. I just don't get how people seem to go climbing for pretty much all day, when I seem to be completely pumped out after 2/3 hours of climbing. I have been climbing for around a year now, and even though my overall climbing ability has improved my stamina seems to still be the same.
 Lord_ash2000 06 Jan 2017
In reply to swifty:

A 2-3 session at the wall is plenty, bouldering I'm normally done by 2 hours, can maybe stretch a bit more on routes due to spending half the time belaying and messing about with the ropes but I wouldn't worry to much if you're ready to go home after 3 hours climbing at the wall. If people are lasting all day then they are just pottering around for most of it, no way you can keep performing to any worthwhile percentage of your best 5 hours in.
In reply to swifty:

Depends what your goal is at the wall. If you are aiming to climb a specific line at the wall that you've worked you might need 20+ mins between attempts. I drop my grade at the wall compared to outside so I don't have to rest as much, I figured getting back on when Im still pumped will help my stamina and if I don't make it to the top it doesn't matter as its training not performance.

2hrs max bouldering, maybe 3hrs if doing routes is normal for me. I find once the power starts to fade it does so pretty rapidly! Would you really want to spend 5hrs at a climbing wall?
In reply to swifty: As I posted recently on another thread, one to two minutes rest per hard move climbed is a decent starting point.

Anything less than one minute per hard move and you'll probably not be resting enough to have a decent attempt. For general indoor climbing projects one minute per move generally seems to work, balancing performance against wanting to make efficient use of time.

However for hard outdoors projects, especially those with a higher failure penalty where attempts are more limited, resting for at least two minutes per move is more likely to be optimal.

Obviously people vary and the more climbing you do, the better you'll hopefully understand how you recover but that sort of quantitative approach might help as an initial point from which to experiment with.

Personally, I often run a stop watch when bouldering indoors but generally don't with routes. What I find with routes is that climbing us a three generally works better when climbing hard but if climbing as a pair I'll happily take longer rests or sometimes completely miss a 'turn' until I feel properly recovered.

 JJL 06 Jan 2017
In reply to swifty:

Sadly (*very* sadly), it depends on how old you are.

If I have a full-on session at the wall, then going next day is too soon to perform anywhere near my best (still fun, but low expectations). I'm 52.

On rock, with all the general faffing (finding route, setting belays, partner seconds and leads, walking off), it's ok to go several days in a row.

I've never been in a posiiton to be "working" a sport route at my limit though. I suspect the balance would be between freshening up and stiffening up!
 stp 06 Jan 2017
In reply to swifty:
> This is mainly single pitch sport climbs at my local gym.

OK. Sorry I assumed it was bouldering. I generally rest for as long as it takes my partner to do a route. Sometimes I'll take some extra rest if I got particularly pumped on the previous route or if I'm trying to get up something right at my limit. But mostly I prefer to keep going and only rest for a fairly brief period.


> I just don't get how people seem to go climbing for pretty much all day, when I seem to be completely pumped out after 2/3 hours of climbing.

So firstly how many days per week to do you climb? Stamina and fitness improve most with doing a fair amount - say 4 - 5 days per week.

A key thing for me is not to get too pumped on any one route. If you push yourself really hard - to the point where you just cannot hang on any longer - the pump from that can take a while to subside. If you can stop just a little bit before that point it can make a big difference in terms of faster recovery.

This means I need less rest and results in allowing me to do more routes per session or in training terms a higher volume. For training endurance I think higher volume and lower intensity is the way to go. I generally do routes at or just below my onsight level. I certainly don't onsight everything though. If I get too pumped I'll take a rest and try the route again when I've got the moves a bit more dialled, often I'll wait for the next session if I think I need to be a bit fresher.

Another strategy is to mix up styles of climbing. So one route might be a fingery wall the next route might be a juggy roof climb. The first taxes your forearms more, the second is more on the larger muscle groups like shoulders, lats etc.

For routes above my onsight level I try to get as far as I can first try (while avoiding a critical forearm pump) and then continue resting on as many bolts as I need to.

A second factor is your climbing partner. I have one partner who tends to only do easy (for them) routes. They tend to be very eager, climb really fast and never fall off. This gives me considerably less rest than a slower partner. With a slower partner my sessions last longer because I'm both resting longer and more recovered for each route.



> I have been climbing for around a year now, and even though my overall climbing ability has improved my stamina seems to still be the same.

Hard to say why that would be without seeing you climb. A few things spring to mind:

1. Not trying hard enough routes or not just pushing yourself hard enough when you climb (this can come from a fear of falling or simply not realizing how hard you can push yourself).
2. Not doing enough routes each session
3. Not enough sessions per week.
4. Someone for whom endurance is a struggle - might mean you're naturally a better boulder.
5. The route-setting at the wall is shoddy. Routes with stopper moves aren't good for endurance training.

Could be a combination of several of these factors or something else.

You might try doing 2 - 3 routes in succession (with no rest other than lowering down), particularly if your wall is not that high. Also trying harder routes, doing them initially with rests and building up to redpointing them over several sessions. This is a great way to learn what we're really capable of.

The key thing is if you're not improving any more and you've been doing the same thing for a year you almost certainly need to change what you're doing in some way.
Post edited at 23:11
 stp 06 Jan 2017
In reply to JJL:

> If I have a full-on session at the wall, then going next day is too soon to perform anywhere near my best (still fun, but low expectations). I'm 52.

Probably not so much about age and more to do with not going regularly enough to build up decent recovery. The more often you go the faster you recover. Ideally, if/when I've got a partner, I'll climb 5 days a week. I try to focus mostly on overhanging stuff coz that's what I'm worst at. I'm 56.
OP swifty 27 Jan 2017
In reply to stp:

Ah Okay, But does it get to a point where you just don't have any finger stamina left? I only seem to last around 2-3 hours. I see people at my gym climb all day.

Seb
 GridNorth 27 Jan 2017
In reply to stp:

Not sure I would agree about the age thing and in any case indoor "training" is different to outdoor climbing as it tends to be more intense. I used to be able to climb for 4 days, more or less at my limit,before I felt that I needed a day off. On my last trip to Kalymnos however I came to realise that 2 days at my limit and 1 day off seemed to optimise my performance, but I am 68 and age most definitely was a factor. Having said that friends who were with me,of a similar age seemed to not need any rest days but they were only climbing 4c/5a and not interested in climbing harder whereas I was pushing and trying to get up 7a's and that is most definitely harder on the body in absolute terms. If I overdo things I regret it afterwards and it takes even longer to recover.

Al
 stp 27 Jan 2017
In reply to GridNorth:

Sounds like you're doing really well. I have heard that recovery takes longer after 60 but I think at 52 probably less so.
 stp 27 Jan 2017
In reply to swifty:

I think as Gridnorth said intensity make a huge difference. I think if you are trying stuff at your limit the whole time then you're gonna get tired much quicker if you stay at just a little bit below that. I've found that on indoor routes a key thing is not to allow yourself to get completely pumped on any one route. Better to stop just little bit before that point. That way you can rest while your partner climbs and be OK to climb again 10 mins later. This is assuming you have built up some fitness over time though. I think this is better for training (at least for endurance) because it allows a higher volume of climbing and is more fun because you get to do more.

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