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Sorry folks; I know I've moaned about my Brother in Law before but I was a bit aghast with him at Christmas.
As she has always done, Mrs made him a lovely Christmas cake and gave it to him about ten days before Christmas. She put an awful lot of effort into making it, icing it and decorating it. She had made a similar cake in August for his 80th and he has never said anything untoward before.
He turned up on Christmas Day for lunch together with over three quarters of the cake in the box.
When Mrs. asked why he said that he didn't really like fruit cake, despite never having said so before.
Mrs. was, I think, understandably upset given the characteristic effort she'd made. I wasn't in the room at the time but was all for confronting him and pointing out how upset Mrs was.
Anyway, I said nothing at the time but I'm still tempted to do so. My own feeling is that if he didn't want it he could have put it out for the birds and we would have been none the wiser.
As it happened I took it over to the MRT base where I know it was enjoyed and appreciated.
I just feel he could have been a bit more tactful about it.
Sorry to have aired this here.
Happy new year all.
As she has always done, Mrs made him a lovely Christmas cake and gave it to him about ten days before Christmas. She put an awful lot of effort into making it, icing it and decorating it. She had made a similar cake in August for his 80th and he has never said anything untoward before.
He turned up on Christmas Day for lunch together with over three quarters of the cake in the box.
When Mrs. asked why he said that he didn't really like fruit cake, despite never having said so before.
Mrs. was, I think, understandably upset given the characteristic effort she'd made. I wasn't in the room at the time but was all for confronting him and pointing out how upset Mrs was.
Anyway, I said nothing at the time but I'm still tempted to do so. My own feeling is that if he didn't want it he could have put it out for the birds and we would have been none the wiser.
As it happened I took it over to the MRT base where I know it was enjoyed and appreciated.
I just feel he could have been a bit more tactful about it.
Sorry to have aired this here.
Happy new year all.
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In reply to mypyrex:
Not very tactful on his part I agree. But maybe at 80 he's just not as mentally 'with it' as he perhaps once would have been?
Not very tactful on his part I agree. But maybe at 80 he's just not as mentally 'with it' as he perhaps once would have been?
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In reply to mypyrex:
Nowt so strange as folk. Hope it has helped airing it and now try to let the feelings go as they say. If your wife made me a Christmas cake I would worship her, especially if the marzipan was homemade. I was with my Mum over Christmas and feel a bit guilty over the size of slice i cut myself when invited to do so. HNY.
Nowt so strange as folk. Hope it has helped airing it and now try to let the feelings go as they say. If your wife made me a Christmas cake I would worship her, especially if the marzipan was homemade. I was with my Mum over Christmas and feel a bit guilty over the size of slice i cut myself when invited to do so. HNY.
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In reply to mypyrex:
Maybe he just didn't want to waste it and thought you might enjoy eating it instead.
Are you really moaning about this on a forum?
Maybe he just didn't want to waste it and thought you might enjoy eating it instead.
Are you really moaning about this on a forum?
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In reply to mypyrex:
If you ask around there's probably load of people with stories of oldies being right spiteful and nasty. I know of a few. Make you think why do they do it... and its nothing to do with them being senile or anything, just being bitter and nasty.
If you ask around there's probably load of people with stories of oldies being right spiteful and nasty. I know of a few. Make you think why do they do it... and its nothing to do with them being senile or anything, just being bitter and nasty.
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In reply to Dave Perry:
Sadly tact, social skills and compassion have never been his strong points. No point in trying to change him now
Sadly tact, social skills and compassion have never been his strong points. No point in trying to change him now
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In reply to Bellie:
Watch it squirt, I'm seventy.
> If you ask around there's probably load of people with stories of oldies being right spiteful and nasty. I know of a few. Make you think why do they do it... and its nothing to do with them being senile or anything, just being bitter and nasty.
Watch it squirt, I'm seventy.
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In reply to mypyrex:
Well, there's not much point in moaning about it, is there?
> Sadly tact, social skills and compassion have never been his strong points. No point in trying to change him now
Well, there's not much point in moaning about it, is there?
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In reply to mypyrex:
Definitely think it's tactless and we all know a family member a bit like that.
Although he may have stayed quiet and binned or 'fed to the birds' the first cake and then returned the second one to prevent her making him any more fruitcake that might be wasted.
Definitely think it's tactless and we all know a family member a bit like that.
Although he may have stayed quiet and binned or 'fed to the birds' the first cake and then returned the second one to prevent her making him any more fruitcake that might be wasted.
Post edited at 17:36
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In reply to Lusk:
This thread might be better in the pub, but there's no harm venting about it by having a little whinge on here is there? This is social media y'know.
This thread might be better in the pub, but there's no harm venting about it by having a little whinge on here is there? This is social media y'know.
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In reply to mypyrex:
You can't change him. Its hard enough trying to change yourself, but thats the key to it, change your response.
You can't change him. Its hard enough trying to change yourself, but thats the key to it, change your response.
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In reply to mypyrex:
What forums does your bother-in-law use, I'd love to here what he has to say about his brother-in-law.
What forums does your bother-in-law use, I'd love to here what he has to say about his brother-in-law.
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In reply to mypyrex:
I think it's better that he said something and let someone else enjoy it because this is the second cake and then she would make him another cake, and another, it's a bit awkward.
It might also be that a whole cake is too much for him especially if he hasn't much of a social life (I'm assuming that's the case from what you said before.).
I think in a way he is showing he appreciates how much work went into the cake by returning the rest for someone else to enjoy and not binning it.
Also it's her brother and I think with family it's better to be honest than fake for the sake of politeness.
I think it's better that he said something and let someone else enjoy it because this is the second cake and then she would make him another cake, and another, it's a bit awkward.
It might also be that a whole cake is too much for him especially if he hasn't much of a social life (I'm assuming that's the case from what you said before.).
I think in a way he is showing he appreciates how much work went into the cake by returning the rest for someone else to enjoy and not binning it.
Also it's her brother and I think with family it's better to be honest than fake for the sake of politeness.
Post edited at 21:19
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In reply to mypyrex:
I have a similarly forward sister in law (the other one is like a cool sister I never had). I find not minding helps.
She might outlive me after all , and I'll have spent my life minding while she was unawares.
Not minding seems like the logical approach given she probably won't change, and it makes seeing her better qualities easier somehow.
Forgive him because he's 80 and probably just didn't want to waste it.
I have a similarly forward sister in law (the other one is like a cool sister I never had). I find not minding helps.
She might outlive me after all , and I'll have spent my life minding while she was unawares.
Not minding seems like the logical approach given she probably won't change, and it makes seeing her better qualities easier somehow.
Forgive him because he's 80 and probably just didn't want to waste it.
Post edited at 21:35
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In reply to mypyrex:
Sounds like he is on the Autistic spectrum. At 80 he's not going to change. Looking at it logically he probably didn't want to waste it given the effort his sister put into making it.
Sounds like he is on the Autistic spectrum. At 80 he's not going to change. Looking at it logically he probably didn't want to waste it given the effort his sister put into making it.
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In reply to Dave Perry:
I agree, my 80 year old FIL tends to tell it as it is these days, and forgets the niceties . We just go with the flow , even though we have had him as a house guest for three weeks following an operation, at times he will say things that may sound ungrateful .
If it had been me I would just smiled and scoffed the rest of the cake myself
> Not very tactful on his part I agree. But maybe at 80 he's just not as mentally 'with it' as he perhaps once would have been?
I agree, my 80 year old FIL tends to tell it as it is these days, and forgets the niceties . We just go with the flow , even though we have had him as a house guest for three weeks following an operation, at times he will say things that may sound ungrateful .
If it had been me I would just smiled and scoffed the rest of the cake myself
In reply to mypyrex:
Old people can be difficult, grumpy, and graceless. This gets truer and truer the older they get. E.g. I'm ancient, and I'm a total pain in the arse.
Old people can be difficult, grumpy, and graceless. This gets truer and truer the older they get. E.g. I'm ancient, and I'm a total pain in the arse.
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In reply to Sophie G.:
A brother commented that personality traits can seem to become more pronounced as people age. If the OP's brother in law has always had an ability to put his foot in it, it could make sense that he still has (plus a bit more).
A brother commented that personality traits can seem to become more pronounced as people age. If the OP's brother in law has always had an ability to put his foot in it, it could make sense that he still has (plus a bit more).
Post edited at 21:46
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In reply to mypyrex:
So you don't really know how he phrased it, or the tone of voice he used.
I'm with those who would rather be honest, and prefer the cake (and any future cakes that might be made) not to go to waste. It's all too easy to get stuck into getting given the same thing you don't like if you're not honest about how you feel, for fear of offending. Tact is required, though, and some people struggle with tact, without meaning to (like those along the autistic spectrum as mentioned earlier).
This year, I admitted not having enjoyed Christmas for years, and said I wasn't intending to join my family for it (but would see them afterwards). I got guilted into joining them...
> I wasn't in the room at the time
So you don't really know how he phrased it, or the tone of voice he used.
I'm with those who would rather be honest, and prefer the cake (and any future cakes that might be made) not to go to waste. It's all too easy to get stuck into getting given the same thing you don't like if you're not honest about how you feel, for fear of offending. Tact is required, though, and some people struggle with tact, without meaning to (like those along the autistic spectrum as mentioned earlier).
This year, I admitted not having enjoyed Christmas for years, and said I wasn't intending to join my family for it (but would see them afterwards). I got guilted into joining them...
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In reply to mypyrex:
Perhaps he figured after a few cakes he couldn't really enjoy he'd come clean as politely as he could, share the cake with others who would enjoy it and save your wife the effort of making him something he wasn't fond of in the future. He doesn't sound ungrateful or spiteful, just honest. Not everyone likes cake, I know I don't, but I can still recognise the kind intent and the work involved when I get one.
Maybe next year she'll make him a cake he does enjoy, surely then that's good for both of them.
Honesty seems the best policy to me. Happy new year,
jk
> He turned up on Christmas Day for lunch together with over three quarters of the cake in the box.
> When Mrs. asked why he said that he didn't really like fruit cake, despite never having said so before.
> Mrs. was, I think, understandably upset given the characteristic effort she'd made. I wasn't in the room at the time but was all for confronting him and pointing out how upset Mrs was.
> When Mrs. asked why he said that he didn't really like fruit cake, despite never having said so before.
> Mrs. was, I think, understandably upset given the characteristic effort she'd made. I wasn't in the room at the time but was all for confronting him and pointing out how upset Mrs was.
Perhaps he figured after a few cakes he couldn't really enjoy he'd come clean as politely as he could, share the cake with others who would enjoy it and save your wife the effort of making him something he wasn't fond of in the future. He doesn't sound ungrateful or spiteful, just honest. Not everyone likes cake, I know I don't, but I can still recognise the kind intent and the work involved when I get one.
> Anyway, I said nothing at the time but I'm still tempted to do so. My own feeling is that if he didn't want it he could have put it out for the birds and we would have been none the wiser.
Maybe next year she'll make him a cake he does enjoy, surely then that's good for both of them.
> I just feel he could have been a bit more tactful about it.
> Happy new year all.
> Happy new year all.
Honesty seems the best policy to me. Happy new year,
jk
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In reply to mypyrex:
I don't like sweet stuff either and find that it's quite difficult getting the message across. My mum at Christmas still looked at me with shock when I declined both Christmas cake and pudding, even though I remind them each meal that I don't eat pudding. She seemed to take it as a personal affront, but I genuinely don't like sweet stuff, so find it hard to offer genuine thanks when asked. I'm trying to play the honesty card, but it doesn't seem to work. Maybe he's the same, but has been polite for 80 years?
There are ways to manage it, bringing the cake into work would get it finished off quick(not an easy option if you are 80,) but if the intent is to give a person a treat, then it's difficult to honestly thank for it, whereas finding out what a treat for the person is would get genuine thanks, maybe you could help your wife find out what a treat for him is?
I don't like sweet stuff either and find that it's quite difficult getting the message across. My mum at Christmas still looked at me with shock when I declined both Christmas cake and pudding, even though I remind them each meal that I don't eat pudding. She seemed to take it as a personal affront, but I genuinely don't like sweet stuff, so find it hard to offer genuine thanks when asked. I'm trying to play the honesty card, but it doesn't seem to work. Maybe he's the same, but has been polite for 80 years?
There are ways to manage it, bringing the cake into work would get it finished off quick(not an easy option if you are 80,) but if the intent is to give a person a treat, then it's difficult to honestly thank for it, whereas finding out what a treat for the person is would get genuine thanks, maybe you could help your wife find out what a treat for him is?
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In reply to mypyrex:
I can really see it from his perspective having somewhat similar experience to his.
My mother loves to buy me ill-fitting jumpers every year for Christmas and while I could live with the fact that they are what I might have worn in the 1970s none of them actually fit, they are always huge!
Anyway, after years of hoping she might notice that when I try them on you could fit about 3 of me in them I finally mentioned that I was a 'small' rather than a 'large', such a little thing but surprisingly hard to do without giving offence.
I felt really ungrateful, I could have continued to store them at the back of the cupboard but it just seemed such a waste to have her spending her money on clothes that just don't fit and that never get worn.
Anyway, she wasn't best pleased, I felt like an ungrateful wretch but this year the jumpers fit (not that I need two new jumpers a year but lets not go there) and I could give honest thanks for a gift truly appreciated.
Gift giving and receiving is only of value when you match the gift to the person. It's wonderful to give or receive a gift that's honestly appreciated rather than one that's given just because it feels necessary or that the giver can appreciate but not the receiver. The thought behind the gift is probably more important than the gift itself, it means you understand a bit about the person you are giving the gift to or have taken the time and effort to find out what they might like.
I'm sure your missus' Christmas cake it great, just find the right person to give it to.
I can really see it from his perspective having somewhat similar experience to his.
My mother loves to buy me ill-fitting jumpers every year for Christmas and while I could live with the fact that they are what I might have worn in the 1970s none of them actually fit, they are always huge!
Anyway, after years of hoping she might notice that when I try them on you could fit about 3 of me in them I finally mentioned that I was a 'small' rather than a 'large', such a little thing but surprisingly hard to do without giving offence.
I felt really ungrateful, I could have continued to store them at the back of the cupboard but it just seemed such a waste to have her spending her money on clothes that just don't fit and that never get worn.
Anyway, she wasn't best pleased, I felt like an ungrateful wretch but this year the jumpers fit (not that I need two new jumpers a year but lets not go there) and I could give honest thanks for a gift truly appreciated.
Gift giving and receiving is only of value when you match the gift to the person. It's wonderful to give or receive a gift that's honestly appreciated rather than one that's given just because it feels necessary or that the giver can appreciate but not the receiver. The thought behind the gift is probably more important than the gift itself, it means you understand a bit about the person you are giving the gift to or have taken the time and effort to find out what they might like.
I'm sure your missus' Christmas cake it great, just find the right person to give it to.
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In reply to MeMeMe:
I think it's fine for people to be fully honest if they're okay with the same from other people as well, but for the sis in law I've mentioned it doesn't quite seem to be in both directions, with her being quite direct about saying something isn't her thing, and quite sensitive about asking if something is alright, and about the possibility that it might not be. Consistency is always a nice thing from people. If you're sensitive about something, treat others sensitively too.
It's why I stopped being out spoken, I didn't quite like the same coming back at me, it made me see the other perspective.
I think it's fine for people to be fully honest if they're okay with the same from other people as well, but for the sis in law I've mentioned it doesn't quite seem to be in both directions, with her being quite direct about saying something isn't her thing, and quite sensitive about asking if something is alright, and about the possibility that it might not be. Consistency is always a nice thing from people. If you're sensitive about something, treat others sensitively too.
It's why I stopped being out spoken, I didn't quite like the same coming back at me, it made me see the other perspective.
Post edited at 11:39
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In reply to Timmd:
'As' outspoken - that should be. I like to think I wasn't at the top of the scale of outspokenness.
> It's why I stopped being out spoken, I didn't quite like the same coming back at me, it made me see the other perspective.
'As' outspoken - that should be. I like to think I wasn't at the top of the scale of outspokenness.
In reply to mypyrex:
Please don't apologise, you're our very own Alan Bennett.
> Sorry to have aired this here.
Please don't apologise, you're our very own Alan Bennett.
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In reply to Sophie G.:
I think, based on observation, a lot of old people have got fed up with decades of observing social niceties despite which they have been shat on in various ways so now they just decide to communicate how they are feeling, which perhaps they feel they should have been brave enough to do earlier in life. The time left is too short perhaps for fussing too much? Seen it loads of times
I think, based on observation, a lot of old people have got fed up with decades of observing social niceties despite which they have been shat on in various ways so now they just decide to communicate how they are feeling, which perhaps they feel they should have been brave enough to do earlier in life. The time left is too short perhaps for fussing too much? Seen it loads of times
Post edited at 17:17
In reply to Yanis Nayu:
Why thank you!
I'm not really back, I was just exceptionally bored
Why thank you!
I'm not really back, I was just exceptionally bored
Post edited at 18:59
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In reply to mypyrex:
One doesn't simply give, in order to receive.
People have forgotten what giving is all about.
And equally, people have forgotten what receiving is all about.
One doesn't simply give, in order to receive.
People have forgotten what giving is all about.
And equally, people have forgotten what receiving is all about.
In reply to zimpara:
I had a girlfriend a long time ago who had a simple philosophy:
"Christmas is a time for giving.
And if you give you may hope also to receive.
So I'm happy to give my parents a present.
Coz I want to receive a new mountain bike!"
> One doesn't simply give, in order to receive.
I had a girlfriend a long time ago who had a simple philosophy:
"Christmas is a time for giving.
And if you give you may hope also to receive.
So I'm happy to give my parents a present.
Coz I want to receive a new mountain bike!"
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In reply to mypyrex:
From Rudyard Kipling's The Children's Song
Teach us Delight in simple things,
And Mirth that has no bitter springs;
Forgiveness free of evil done,
And Love to all men 'neath the sun!
It's almost like a secret for contentment.
From Rudyard Kipling's The Children's Song
Teach us Delight in simple things,
And Mirth that has no bitter springs;
Forgiveness free of evil done,
And Love to all men 'neath the sun!
It's almost like a secret for contentment.
Post edited at 21:32
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