In reply to Hugh J:
> My main point is my perceived view that some debaters on here are in no way interested in learning anything from another's point of view.
Yes, but are you one of those "debators"? Or are you genuinely prepared to be persuaded away from your own deeply held viewpoints?
> This is in spite of the many things I am really not happy about at the moment, For example the Middle-East situations, Trump, Brexit, xenophobia, corporate globalisation and general nastiness in our society that I feel at the moment
This litany suggests that all the "nastiness" that you see comes from those of opposed viewpoints to your own, while those who agree with you are presumably all sweetness and light. Which is itself a rather blinkered and highly partisan view, rather like only perceiving wind when it is in your face, not noticing it at all when it is behind you. So your desire for niceness and harmony suggests that what you actually want is for everyone to agree with you and to be persuaded by you, when you are not remotely prepared to reconsider some of your own idée fixes. Clearly this is not going to happen, as your opponents hold their views just as firmly as you do, and will have an entirely different list of "nasty, threatening things".
This is exemplified by frequent attempts to capture and distort language - a good example is the word "bigot". This is defined as "one excessively or unreasonably devoted to a particular viewpoint, prone to hostile and aggressive reactions to alternative views", it does not imply it is restricted to a particular political slant, it is a general statement about those who are excessively partisan about any view. Similarly, using question-begging words like "progressive" does not invite debate, but rather triggers (as it is intended or guaranteed to), confrontation.
To an extent, the internet and its remoteness promotes these "dialogs of the deaf", as positions once taken tend only ever to be hardened by hostile responses, hence the endless threads becoming ever more aggressive and ever less constructive. In actual conversation, people tend to be more restrained, more likely to concede that their opponents have some points that are valid and that there are more shades of grey than obvious black and white.
One of the very few conversations that was of any merit about Brexit that I have had was with a Czech chap, in a high, remote Italian bivi hut. After the initial slight awkwardness from the meeting the night before had worn off :
"I'm sorry I frightened your girlfriend half to death"
"I'm sorry she reacted like that and hit you, then ran screaming off into the night"
we actually had a CONVERSATION, because he was genuinely interested about attitudes in Britain, not wanting to launch into pre-prepared harangues from one position or the other. One-sided harangues never, ever persuade anyone of anything, these attempts to browbeat and bully simply form a carapace of stubbornness and resentment that grows ever thicker with each successive attempt to intimidate.
I think there were actually very few conversations about Brexit, and very few people's minds were changed by the endless discussion, the campaigns had very little direct effect at all.
For genuine debate, the debators must have some respect for each other and be tolerant, must be able to accept that men and women of good will and intelligence can sincerely reach entirely different conclusions, also that there is no definitive "right" or "wrong" answer. In other words, they need to be classical liberals, not "Liberals" in the originally American sense, i.e. anything but liberal, just a synonym for left-wing.
Post edited at 18:26