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Scottish winter mountaineering Kit

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ultinator 15 Jan 2017
Hi im due to go up nevis soon, and will get some ice climbing skills taught to me too.

I was wondering about these layers and if I would be better served with an alternate jacket.

-merino base,
-fleece,
-mountain hardwear thermostatic jacket (will this work as an outside jacket on the walk in, or until it rains??)
- Tresspass waterproof hardshell like thing (cost about £60 a year ago) (will this be the best thing to wear most of the day for wind etc? just not super breathable and thought about using it only for rain)
-black diamond stance belay hoody.


This would be the things I have to wear for the climb/hike/walk.
I just dont want to end up freezing my nuts off or soaked to the bone,

Thanks for reading
 DaveHK 15 Jan 2017
In reply to ultinator:
> I just dont want to end up freezing my nuts off

Given that you haven't mentioned trousers I suspect you'll do just that.

Seriously though, that sounds like plenty if not too much. You'll only get close to needing all that if you're standing around for ages.
Post edited at 18:13
 BusyLizzie 15 Jan 2017
In reply to ultinator:

I am a chilly soul but have been fine walking in base layer plus fleece plus hard shell, and base layer plus trousers. Then add belay jacket for belaying, if the wind lets up enough for you to wrestle it out of the rucksack and get it on.
ultinator 15 Jan 2017
In reply to DaveHK:

> Given that you haven't mentioned trousers I suspect you'll do just that.

haha, you're funny .

I have base trousers and some trousers for top and some waterproofs should i need it.

I'll be camping 3 days around the mountain a day for summit and two for climbing, so just wanted to have all areas covered i.e. something gets wet on day 1 i can at least have some sort of back up.

I haven't experienced scottish winter around there and wasnt sure on temps/precipitation/wind chill factors too.

Well thanks though I hope to be just fine then, i got nepal cubes for my feet too and theyve been rather splendid so far.


 Tricadam 15 Jan 2017
In reply to ultinator:

Your clothing set up sounds fine. And hard to do better than the Nepal Cubes for all-round Scottish winter, I reckon. Are you staying at a campsite with drying facilities though? If not, *everything* is going to get pretty cold and heavy after even a day in average conditions, unless you're planning on lugging up a generator, heater and dehumidifier!

Also, no need to have a separate day for the summit as most routes finish within an easy walk of it. If feeling energetic, you can take in the CMD Arete too on descent.
 Alex Riley 15 Jan 2017
In reply to Tricadam:

It was -6 when I walked in the other day and I was only wearing a base layer until the CIC hut. Like has been said above, keeping dry is important (ie, not sweaty as well as not wet from snow/rain). Be flexible with what you wear.

I find that if my feet are warm, my legs are warm. If my hands are cold (really cold) my arms are cold (and I get hot aches when this happens. I've played around with changing socks after walking in to climbs the last few times out and it has made a difference. Having a pair of mitts to belay/stand around in (thickest cheap ones you can find will do, they don't need to be fancy) and a pair of thinner gloves for anything technical is good.

The clothes you have sound like a good start. It sounds like you are being guided or taken out by someone more experienced, perhaps ask them what they think as they will have more of an idea what you will be doing?
ultinator 15 Jan 2017
In reply to Alex Riley:

yeah aiming to be guided basically so can learn things to take onto more places. I was just asking in case I might've needed something in a sale last minute haha.

I have some fairly decent gloves, but I had considered taking my old motorbike gauntlets too, I have some Gerbing 12V XR-12 Hybrid Gloves. What does anyone think of using them/taking them?

That's all pretty solid advice too thanks. I had not really thought about drying out facilities - is that a common amenity for camp sites to have round there?

I definitely want to make this as challenging as possible since I want to get as much in as possible too. How long would a typical trip to the top be? i'm not hoping to go up the tourist path thing though.

 Alex Riley 15 Jan 2017
In reply to ultinator:

I did green gully to the top from the North Face car park car to car in just under 12 hrs the other day.
 gavmac 16 Jan 2017
In reply to ultinator:

Multiple pairs of gloves and mitts are good. On some days, actually most days, I have 4 sets in my bag.
1
ultinator 16 Jan 2017
In reply to gavmac:

i have a thin liner glove, thin windproof/waterproofish glove, a middle weight cheap glove that has more warmth than the previous ones and says waterproof and some BD soloist glove. might grab a waterproof overmitt
 GaborS 16 Jan 2017
In reply to ultinator:

base layer (merino is best, but other material will do too, just not cotton!) + fleece + soft shell (stuff that keeps most of the wind & water out (if it starts to rain, you would want to head back anyway and good soft shell should keep you dryish for a few hours). Plus a down jacket for belaying only (but I guess you can substitute this with a hard shell, although that would not be near as good as a down jacket).

I hope this helps.


All you need now is the snow & ice
1
 GaborS 16 Jan 2017
In reply to gavmac:

For sure. Last time I used three pairs of gloves just on a short day (one gully in North wales). started of with a pair of proper gloves, then changed those for another pair of decent gloves on the way down, then a pair of basic (£5) gloves for the walk back to the car to keep the hand dry and warm. Lovely. For big mountain days, take a couple more.
 NigeR 16 Jan 2017
In reply to ultinator:

I don't know if you've used your MH Thermostatic on the hill yet, but whilst it's a good additional layer for temperatures down to around freezing, I've found it's not much use below that or in foul weather, and worn just over a base layer, unless you run hot, anything below around 5 degrees and you'll be reaching for another layer.

Yes it's very light and packs nice and small, but the reason for this is that there's sod all insulation in it
 Tricadam 16 Jan 2017
In reply to GaborS:

Down jackets generally not favoured in Scottish conditions: too maritime! I'm not saying they don't work for some people, but the majority use a belay jacket with synthetic insulation that will still work when wet. And which has a hope of drying out for the next day.
 Tricadam 16 Jan 2017
In reply to ultinator:
In terms of timing, an hour and a half from North Face car park to CIC Hut if it's crisp and dry which will both allow you to wear less - meaning less sweat - and, being dry air, will facilitate evaporation of the sweat. (It's impossible for breathable waterproof clothing to do its job in 100% humidity, as those of us who've spent any time in the Scottish mountains know well!) Walk a bit slower if it's wet - 2 hours. From there, it's perhaps on average an hour to the start of the routes, though certainly longer to the ones higher up Observatory Gully. Thereafter, anything from 30 mins for a solo of one of the shorter gullies to hours and hours! That's the biggest variable! Summit to car park, perhaps two and a half hours. Obviously none of this includes time for stops, food, photography, navigation, guide book reading, Instagram posting and stopping to chat to folk - often one of the best bits of the day!
Post edited at 20:38
 Tricadam 16 Jan 2017
In reply to ultinator:

For tips, here's some good bedtime reading: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=652963 Enjoy!
ultinator 16 Jan 2017
In reply to Tricadam:

I have a synthetic jacket that I hope will be suitable for warmth a black diamond belay stance jacket.... not tried and tested though!
ultinator 16 Jan 2017
In reply to NigeR:

I havent used it on a hill, just for a walkabout really. I hadnt really thought it would be equivalent to a down jacket or really puffy synthetic. but then i thought about using it as an extra layer if needs be. although since I have no softshell jacket I am not sure where to wear it. I walked up a hill the other day with a fleece and the MH thermo jacket, well it rained and suffice to say it was pretty naff at repelling anything really. especially around shoulder where my backpack straps were.

Being novice I havent been able to try what system works best for me yet, so any advice is appreciated
 J Whittaker 16 Jan 2017
In reply to ultinator:

Just wear shorts and t-shirt...might as well its pretty much bloody summer still...devastating
ultinator 16 Jan 2017
In reply to Tricadam:

read. good stuff in there. I especially like the boots in carrier bag before putting through waterproof trousers.
I haave 3/4 length zip and size 47 boots so are a but cumbersome.

Also if using crampons, is it practical to remove them, put on waterproof trousers and then put crampons back on?
I am worried i could tear the trousers otherwise.
They use the step in system? with a metal bar at the front for a toe welt.

Also is a front bail like a basket for the boot an advantage over a step-in crampon in any cases?
ultinator 16 Jan 2017
In reply to Whitjohj:
boooo! bring on the wind rain and snow!

Whats a cold temp for this time of year around there then?
Metcheck seems to reckon itll be betweeen 1 to -3 when i go.

It was -6 a few weeks ago down in surrey when i went to work, so seeems pretty mild up there
Post edited at 21:41
 Tricadam 17 Jan 2017
In reply to ultinator:

I just wear Paramo trousers all day in winter so don't have to deal with that particular one but yes, better take crampons off before putting boots through over-trousers.

In terms of basket vs bail, I prefer the bail on my Petzl Lynx: allows more precise adjustment of how far forward the boot is relative to the front points. V important to make sure bail is properly in the boot welt though. In that regard baskets are easier.
 GrahamD 17 Jan 2017
In reply to ultinator:

With the choice of gear out there its easy to make stuff overcomplicated. If you have done any mountain walking in winter then your normal winter walking kit is likely to be fine whilst moving. Synthetic is best if you can - wet walk ins arre not uncommon so you want stuff that has some performance when wet.

I would itterate taking good warm gloves and mittens and a spare set. Warm hat. Gaiters (cheap ones are fine - you are almost certain to rip them !)
 Hyphin 18 Jan 2017
In reply to ultinator:

Shorts and t-shirt this year
ultinator 18 Jan 2017
In reply to Tricadam:

I have acquired some petzl lynx's. The bail (metal bar?) fits my boots, or certainly seem to get on nice and tight.
I did notice though the welt on my boots is rounded. Whereas the bail on the lynx has bent corners, is this normal, or should it be reshape a bit ?
My boots are Nepal cubes
 pjcollinson 18 Jan 2017
In reply to Hyphin:

Over dressed surely! Just shorts this year.
 Tricadam 18 Jan 2017
In reply to ultinator:

Don't worry: they're fine as is. The Lynx bail is bent like that to enable it to fit various different types of boots. I've got that exact combo BTW.

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