UKC

we're moving up to Scotty in a month (for ever!) and i'm trying to get all the gear i need before i go, in case i've got no money left when we get there and spend it all on frivolous stuff like somewhere to live, a Land rover etc.

i think i'm gonna need some fleece salopettes for general winter mountaineering / walking / climbing in and around the Cairngorms. I already have some Calange fleecy tights and Mountain Equipment DLE (Karakoram i think) overtrousers so i guess i just need these now.

Can anyone suggest suitable options? price? availability?

Also, i'm gonna need to carry a bivi bag for those odd unexpected nights on the hill. I have been carrying a Macpac Microlight tent, great tent but it's a bit on the heavy side if it's only "just in case".

Oh, and a warmer sleeping bag to go with it. I have been carrying a Mountain Equipment Dewline 300 which is, i think, only a 1 season bag (though I've used it down to minus 8C - a really great bag and very light/small too). I think maybe I will need something a bit warmer using a bivi bag though. Suggestions? Recommendations?

thanks in anticipation of your kind help.

andyg.

In reply to andyg: I personally would recommend Paramo Trousers for Scottish winter but if you want fleece then the Mountain Equipment ultrafleece Sallopette are very good quite wind proof very warm I used them before I got my Paramos

Mountain Range Make some good basic light weight Bivi Bags

As for sleeping bag you could do much worse than stick with the Mountain Equipment Extreme Range, Snowline does –20 Lightline –12 there are warmer but probably a bit over kill unless you’re a cold sleeper

Ok the sales pitch I have a pair of redundant Ultra fleece sallapetts in as new condition £40 + P&P

In reply to andyg:
When in the Scottish hills in winter, we carry a plastic survival bag each and a bothy bag between us. No tent, no sleeping bag, unless we plan to camp.

If we were benighted and couldn't build a snow shelter, we would get into the survival bags and then all huddle together under the bothy bag. Minimum weight, maximum heat, and being together we could help each other through the night.

More important, I would say, is a headtorch each and the ability to navigate in bad weather. I reckon it is far better to be able to get off the hill, rather than endure a night up there unexpectedly. Because once the weather turns bad, you have no idea how long it will be until nice weather comes again.

As for keeping the legs warm, my leg gear varies from a pair of lightweight walking trousers, to lightweight trousers, waterproof overtrousers and thermal leggings, depending on the weather forecast. If you are up in Scotland, the North Cape factory shop does a great price on warm thermals.

In reply to almost sane & Ricky:

Thanks for the help, especailly the North Cape shop - I'll definitely try that. And yes, I agree on the headtorch navigation point, but I still like to be well prepared.

Ricky - on the ultrafleece 'pettes subject - what size are they? I'm a small in most things (30" waist and 36" chest).
Where can I get Paramo trousers? Can I view them on-line?

Thanks again guys. andyg.

In reply to andyg:

I'd go with what almost sane has to say about emergency equipment. Carry too much, and you'll end up going so slow you have to use it!

That's not meant to be negative - a bivvy bag's not a silly plan. But unless you're setting out planning to spend a night out, then the sleeping bag you've got should be plenty warm enough for emergency use. I usually just carry a down jacket for this purpose - and the combination of down jacket and light-ish sleeping bag is pretty good for more planned nights.

Paramo have a website - www.paramo.co.uk, or .com, at a guess, but if not it's similarly obvious. I also like ultrafleece. Also, as almost sane suggested, you may not need anything - lightweight trousers and thermal leggings are adequate for most things. All depends what you're planning to do!

Other thing you may not have, but might want, is a decent pair of waterproof gloves (or mitts). Nothing worse than cold hands!

In reply to andyg:
Well unfortunately I am fat and hence they’re extra large.

www.paramo.co.uk is paramo’s website
Bewarned they seem expensive at first but they are very warm I think as warm as fleece and they’re water proof so you don’t need much/any thing under them so you don’t have buy fleece and overtrousers and the ventilation’s excellent also much more breathable than any Fleece/Gore combination

In reply to andyg: I found the ME Aquafleece salopettes to be good - windproof, and waterproof enough, and comfortable to wear, as for a bivi bag for emergencies, the Rab survival zone is light, waterproof, breathable, and only costs £50.

In reply to andyg: I've got some Mardale salopettes and they're really warm, definitley recommended and dead cheap. See web site www.mardale.co.uk or com I can't remember!!

tata

In reply to andyg:

jusy want to say thanks for your help, all of you. You've probably just saved me loads of money on stuff I probably don't need (the warmer bag). I will, however, take a serious look at the RAB Survival Zone which, coupled with my existing Mtn Eqpt bag should be fine & dandy for emergencies!

on the legs front, I think i'll just go with what i've got for the moment and, if i get cold at all, maybe go for the ME U'fleece 'pettes.

thanks again, andyg.

In reply to andyg:

I would personally use pile + pertex sallpettes, very warm in a "holie" (a very strong and cold wind)on the Cairngorm summits. Another pair of spare gloves in your sack is the norm. I have had cold hands on too many days. If your looking for somewhere to stay Glen feshie hostel (guess where!) is brill. hot showers and always warm inside. but its miles from anywhere.Including the pubs

In reply to andyg:
Cioch Direct on Skye do made to measure Nikwax (as in PAramo) garments with any mods you want dsigned in. They made a chinstrap for our son's fleece hat on the spot!

In reply to Robin: Have to agree about the ME auqafleece salopettes excellent - And don't need annoying WP's except for in driving rain or real wet snow!! ( as opposed to dry snow ??)

cheers MATT

I'd suggest that you try Mountain Equipment Powerfleece salopettes. It is a complete body suit and is very reasonably priced for powerstretch fleece - £65. Alternatively you could try an Arc'Teryx powerstretch suit which probably retails for about £130 - £150.

As for a bivi bag it depends on how much you are willing to spend; your best bet is probably a Terra Nova Jupiter bivi which has a Gore-Tex shell and single Easton pole for headroom - £169. If you are willing to spend more for comfort try a Mountain Hardwear Ethereal Bivi (the rolls royce of bivi bags with a Gore-Tex XCR shell, waterproof zipper, UVX windows and 2 Easton poles.

I always use Rab down bags and swear by them. I have a Rab Summit 800 which will keep you warm to about -25C (Rab always under rate their bags) but for the Cairngorms you can probably get away with a Ladakh 600 or 800 (-10C and -20C respectively). I think the key to getting a good night's sleep is a Therm-a-rest; not a Karrimat or self-inflating sleeping mat - I'm talking Cascade Designs (the real thing!) probably a Camp Rest £70 which has thickness of 50mm - essential.... I know, I've slept in a snowcave in the Cairngorms.

Hope this has helped... stay warm!

In reply to andyg:I find ME ultrafleece sal's with thin ron hills underneath does me. I use a Terra Nova Jupiter bivi bag but have found that using a down bag for any more than one night means that the bag gets wet inside the bivi with all the resultant problems. A good quality synthetic bag and thermarest should do the trick and you might find it warmer inside than you would have thought.