UKC

OK so which one - the last two I've had have been the old Petzl zooms which seem to have a habit of forming loose connections, chewing up their expensive batteries, not to mention being quite heavy, etc.

What are these LED torches like The Zipka? Or similar things from other manufacturers like Black Diamond. Are they good enough for the occassional bit of winter climbing/alpine climbing - and I mean occassional - as well as general camping etc?

All info gratefully received.

In reply to Father Faff:

I have a Petzl Tikka and I think it's been pretty good for anything I've done. What seems even better though is the new Tikka Plus - its got several different modes (several brightnesses and flashing modes) Unlike the standard Tikka it also has a Zoom style movement thing so you can change the angle of the torch.

PS Batteries last AGES in them too. 150 hrs i believe as opposed to 19 on a Zoom

In reply to Father Faff:

If you go for one of the petzl LED jobbies then I'd reccomend the 'plus' versions as the older ones are very difficult to use with gloves on. well worth the teeny bit of extra weight imho

I found the (old-style) tikka was fine when navigating off cairngorm the other week - the only problem is there's no long-distance beam so you really have to micro-nav.

On the whole though they're amazing torches!

In reply to Father Faff:
Pezl MYO 3 or 5.You'll be plesantly surprised.
Value for money with MYO 3.
Trail recommended MYO5 I think.

In reply to Father Faff: Agree with steev, have had a petzl zipka (sp? - the basic 3 led one) for a while, been used in anger far too often after too late starts, great for seeing enough to walk down safely, but the more powerful, newer ones with zoom might be a better option.

mark

In reply to Mark Morris: had a petzl zoom for ages its totally ace, recently got a myo 5 which i'm not sure of yet.

The light from the LED's is not as good as even the conventional zoom bulb. Wouldn't consider climbing using the myo 3 or zipka. The 3 doesnt give enough light to climb by, maybe ok for walking out in reasonable conditions tho. The zipka uses 3 AAA batteries which don't perform that well when really cold. Similarly the myo's use AA which are ok but would be better using the flat battery or possibly the belt version.

Like all decisions on gear there are pros and cons up to you to decide your priorities and the decision will be made for you

In reply to CM:

The batteries are less of an issue with LED's as they draw less power. On AAA's most of the LED torches will still operate well at REALLY low (like minus 30) temperatures. It's only with high-drain bulbs that battery temperature starts to become an issue

In reply to CM: Did a whole solo caving trip using a 3 LED tikka after my main light gave out 15 mins into it. IMHO the biggest impact on the relative illumination from the LED lights is the amount of background light, undergound there isn't any!

I think the LED lights are great, I just got one, and it is so much more powerful than my old headtorch, and much more compact as well. Definitely no complaints with LED's here!!!

In reply to Father Faff: ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz

come on to F!! can this not be put on the gear forum?

then again, we might as well right this winter off, so give me more of it, give me gear posts, give me conditions posts, give it to me baby, yeah!!!!!!!

In reply to Richard Gear: Just got back from some ice bouldering on the local crags. My 3 LED Tikka was adequate as indeed were the conditions. Turf firming up nicely too. Not replaced the batteries for long time now, excellent value.

In reply to Father Faff:

How about this?

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=73341

In reply to Chaos:

Ice bouldering in Perth ?

In reply to Father Faff:

I use 2 - both Petzl:

1) Zipka plus for summer backpacking/climbing or when it is unlikely to be used.

2) Myo 5 for winter walking/alpine stuff and when i reckon it might well be used.

Both great, can't get better.

reply to Father Faff: See censored add, he a bit of a Del Boy, but he's selling a FS Petzl MYO3

In reply to Father Faff: For a bargain price of only £30.

In reply to Father Faff:
Some excellent value LED torches from http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/default.php?cPath=31

Not perfect (eg prone to turning on while in rucksack) but you can buy 5 for the price of a single Petzl!

In reply to Father Faff:

I own a 4 led Lucida LED headtorch which has a bulky lens unit (300 hours on batteries) and a smaller 4 led Black Diamond for night climbing (150 hours)

The Petzl Tika? is neat but slightly less bright so I did not go for that.

I tried one make with mulitcontrols (2 led. 6 led, SOS, redbacklight)and a possible max of 6 leds but it kept resetting itself if batteries rattled, thus plunging me into darkness. It was also not conspicuously brighter.

I only replace the batteries once a year, and use these headtorches for backup while exploring mines. If I'm not out in 3 weeks then battery life is the least of my worries.

I will never use conventional bulbed head torches ever again, and suspect that my big car/cave spotlights will soon be available in led style.

In reply to Thawdoubt: Fair cop, but possible ~ Glen Almond.

In reply to OldManOfTheHills:

That'll be the Lucido T6.1 I expect. I had mine replaced because of this fault, the replacement went the same way, ended up with the 8/5/1 LED version of the Petzl Duo instead. Much better made, but not worth the money IMO.

In reply to Father Faff:

Has anyone got one of these?
http://www.bdel.com/gear/lightware/zenix.php

Looks quite interesting - they claim the new LED is as bright as a Xenon bulb

In reply to Father Faff:

I've just got one of the Black Diamond Zenix torches and they beat any other torch into a cocked hat. The Ultrabright LED is so bright you can weld with it. I've compared it with the Myo5, Duo and good old zoom from petzl and the Gemini from BD and I use head torches a lot. Seriously recommended.

In reply to Father Faff: Two choices, the best one or the one you can afford?

In reply to bobdulieuatwork:

Thanks Bob

Now I've just got to find somewhere that stocks these things.

In reply to Simon Caldwell: ended up with the 8/5/1 LED version of the Petzl Duo instead. Much better made, but not worth the money IMO.


Thats why I'd go for Black Diamond, cheaper than Petzl item for item, more up with the technology,(Petzl still sell expensive bulbed things to the technologically ignorant) and though not actually cheap cheap should last 30 or more years, or until you runover it with landrover.

In reply to Anonymous:


I'm not a poor man and I appreciate quality so of course I want the best. What I don't want is something that falls to pieces, is heavy, chews batteries and can not be relied upon at the critical moment. So I don't want a Petzl Zoom....

It seems like the Black Diamond might be the way to go unless anyone tells me otherwise.....

In reply to Father Faff: Bit fiddly, I'd go for the Myo (3 or 5)!

In reply to Father Faff:

My gear freak list:
Myo 5 - Seems very good but not put it to much use yet.
Tikka - Not regulated so inital brightness quickly dims a bit but it lasts for ages and is great for camping stuff where you don't want to blind yourself
Zoom - Just a spare for use by partner

Not a head torch but oh so cool:
Inova X5 - Very bright, uses exotic lithium batteries and is nigh on indestructible. Just the thing if an HGV runs over my rucksack when I'm on the hills.

In reply to Father Faff: I've had my zoom for ten years now and it has been faultless.

In reply to Father Faff:

go for the black diamond 'moonlight'. Best £30 headtorch you can buy. Simple and very effective.

In reply to Father Faff:
Bought a MYO 3off here. Pretty impressed so far.
£30 is a good price, go for that one.

In reply to yer maw:

You obviously don't abuse your zooms the way I do. I've had two and they don't seem to last longer than about five years before the connections become ever so dodgy. And the batteries always seem to be flat....

In reply to Father Faff: : stop faffing about. first on the market with LED headtorches were cheapos from non-mountaineering makers. then a few things appeared that were from mountaineering people and they were crap. then came black diamond, and, as usual, they dont do things by halves. their model with the 5 LEDs in a row is excellent and about 25gbp. just been on the hill with someone using it and its definitely the business. i am going to buy one.

petzl came late to LEDs and havent caught up. as for zooms, what the hell are you doing to them: i am out at night a great deal and i still have my original from the 80s and its in perfect working order.

(Xenon. most people need to avoid halogen bulbs. not only can you not carry enough batteries to keep the damned things going but you will never master being on the hill at night if you use really bright lamps because your attention is drawn into the beam. the brighter and the narrower the beam, the less you will understand about what is around you and the more you will compromise your overall safety. halogen bulbs are for mixed winter FAs!!)

In reply to Father Faff: try this link nice torches all round see the 24/7 multi purpose handheld/head torch. www.inovalight.com also the indestructable x5 & x1 !!!!

One other thing, which is obvious really, but check the head band is suitable for what you want to do. I origionally got a Petzl Zipka because it was small and light, never went anywhere without it in the bottom of the rucksack and thought it was great, until that was I tried to put it onto a helmet... It has since been relegated to a camping torch.

I now use the Petzl Tikka Plus and think it's fantastic. I still have a Zoom somewhere but it's far too heavy / bulky to carry.

In reply to JimF:

Quite agree, about very bright lights.. I often leave torches off when their is any starlight to give my feeble eyes a chance to night adapt.

dont quite agree with your comments about early manufacturers, friends have used lucido minitorches/headtorches for caving backup until BD came along, and this is as demanding as mountaineering. T6 a step too far though.

Yes black diamind LED the way to go. (and avoid petzl to punish them for their excessive prices, overswollen heads, and technological backwardness)

In reply to Simon Caldwell:


Yeah, I recently bought the £7.50 Zipka rip-off and it seems fine for light(sic) use, though I'm a little concerned about water ingress into the switch in wet conditions. Also got the 8-LED monster for an extortionate £25. Seems really good - though I'll reserve final judgement 'til I've used it in anger. Suffice to say, I think that my Petzl incandescent will be staying at home from now on...

In reply to Father Faff:

I've just bought the Tikka plus and am mighty impressed. I thought the original Tikka was good but this is even better, with angle adjustment and greater light output and easier to use switch.

As for 'punishing' one of the only manufacturers to still manufacture in Europe rather than China (see a couple of posts up) - bizarre

In reply to Father Faff: Have got one of the LED tikka plus. Excellent, long battery life, really bright, light and you can fit in your pocket. Only problem, they are quite expensive £40!!

In reply to Freya:

Well if you want to pay over the odds for an less suitable product its up to you, but I understood that F Faff wanted serious torch for ocassional serious outing. The ability to fit in v small pocket not important considering the amount of clutter you end up taking up a mountain. Oh and my Black Diamond fits in my fleece pockets OK anyway, if not locked to helmet.

In reply to OldManOfTheHills:

Oh and BD take AA batteries which are cheap readily available. Not AAA silly midget things which can be hard to get hold of, and are more suitable for remote controls and things non vital

In reply to OldManOfTheHills:

Which BD headtorch are you talking about that takes AA batteries?

In reply to Freya:


Petzl Tikka Plus shouldn't be more than £29.99. and I'm thinking maybe I'll get this for starters as it's so light and easy to carry about everywhere and see how it goes. The BD Moonlight Pro was a close contender and may be slightly better but at the end of the day it's a bit bulkier. If I ever get back into serious alpine/winter climbing (which I'm not sure I ever did anyway)then the Black Diamond Zenix certainly looks interesting.

As for my getting through Petzl Zooms maybe I'm just unlucky. The first one actually did last quite a while before it developed some intermittent connection problem which seemed impossible to fix. The same seems to have happened to my current one. I can't believe no one else has had this problem.......or perhaps they need servicing by a Petzl dealer every 10000 miles???

In reply to Father Faff:

Eat more carrots or buy a meaty dependable practical Petzl zoom for winter + alpine climbing. Zipkas belong in the campsite or for easy walkoffs where you already know the way out......they are NO use where you have to actually route find in the dark!

In reply to Father Faff:
I've tried the myobelt 3 (the batteries in a pack that clips onto your belt) and myo 5. Although the myo 5 has a greater light intensity on LED, I found it quite fiddly to use, and being a fan of the KISS principle I prefer the myobelt 3. It's pretty light and easy to use, good on batteries, and I find that it puts just enough light out with the LEDs not to need the halogen 99% of the time.

Cheers,

Ioan

In reply to Ioan:

So why bother with one that has conventional or zenon bulb then,only risks flattening batteries, and as has been pointed out the highly focussed brighter light is downright liability for long walk outs in poor terrain as it ruins effective peripheral vision. On the climb most things are about 6ft away so v slightly better range on non-led not significant.

in reply to father faff:- tiny AAA batteries are a petzl perversity, though the Tika might make a good small spare lamp when travelling v light. (I tale my T4 lucido or a £1 light stick as spares when in the high mountains at night)

BD have twin AA in box at back of headband, but i dont remember model name (and you can go to gearshop yourself to ask0. 5 climbers out of the 20 of us in Alex M hut had same BD model with only walkers favoring Petzl, but then their lives may not depend on it.

In reply to OldManOfTheHills:

BD Moonlight & Zenix take 3 AAA batteries.

Their other models take variously AA or 6v.

Has anyone *really* had trouble finding AAA batteries anywhere?

In reply to Carless:

Just about every miniature electronic gizmo takes AAA nowadays. I'm really not sure where the 'Black Diamond (made in China)is superior to Petzl (made in Europe)' myth comes from. Some people just have to spend more money, I guess.

In reply to GrahamD:

I have no preference for Petzl or BD - they both put out well-made products.

I've used the same Zoom for nearly 20 years, but finally the connection is dodgy and the elastic has gone.

The Myo looks good, but I can't see it lasting anywhere near 20 years.

The Zenix looks interesting because of the new hyperbright LED and the 45$ price.
Be interesting to see what that becomes when I can find one here.

In reply to OldManOfTheHills:
"5 climbers out of the 20 of us in Alex M hut had same BD model with only walkers favoring Petzl, but then their lives may not depend on it."

elitist or what...

In reply to markk:> > "5 climbers out of the 20 of us in Alex > > elitist or what...

Not elitists as we didnt know each other before and only knew we had same models when getting confused about gear lieing around. I for one am not brand loyal, except when one brand proves itself superior continuously.

To Carless: As for my predjudice against AAA batteries, with long life on LED it may not be so important, the ultra bright Zenix might well be worth considering when my present one gets lost or wornout.