UKC

Anyone got experience of doing the Cassin on the N Face of the Badile as a three? We were planning on a traditional two, but a mate has said he would love to do it too, and made some good arguments in favour of a three; load carrying, spread the leading etc etc. Any thoughts?

In reply to Geoff Quinn:
Better as a pair, faster abseiling on the descent and easier to manage the ropes on the route (no need for two climbers moving together) You don't need any load so don't take one.
Fantastic route though, well worth the experience. Good rock, good moves and great history. Beware of lightning - terrific storm magnet on the North Ridge

In reply to Geoff Quinn:

in 3 you will be fine:

1) if there is more than one leader; split the route in 2 or 3 sections and switch leader only at the end of each section;
2) if you bring one ATC (or stichplate) and two GI-GI you can reduce the time at each belay by a few seconds
3) in three it will be also be easier to untangle the ropes;
4)last but not least, it will be less boring to wait for your turn when you follow; as to the descent, you mainly downclimb, so 2 or 3 is a non issue

start early and be careful not to get stuck in a queue or consider more adventurous but less crowded ways up the face

In reply to Anonymous: You can divide the climb into sections if you like, but I'd do each section. One leader, both other two second on a single 9mm each, climb at the same time. Needs practice but its easily the most efficient way if you are all about the same grade, shouldnt significantly slow you down, and the seconds can carry all the gear.

In reply to Al Evans:

the purpose of splitting the route into two or three sections is to untie only once or twice: even if the two followers climb at the same time, if you switch at every belay on a twenty pitch route you are going to waste a lot of time

In reply to drd: Errr? Isnt that obvious? It would really be better to have one leader throughout, it depends on how democratic the team is!

In reply to Al Evans: There would be a fair amount of competition for leading, especially towards the top. I can see the advantages of the three, but still feel more comfortable with what I know, i.e. a pair.
A route like that may not be the best place to learn if we like it or not, but going to warm up on other routes in the area first so will see how it goes then.

In reply to Anonymous:

Salient point from your reply:

Imagine queueing on the face would be a nightmare, but it's good that there are route finding options on the face. Can't wait!

In reply to Geoff Quinn: http://www.planetfear.com/climbing/highmountainmag/equipmentnotes/july2004/...

An article by Andy Kirkpatrik titled "When three's not a crowd"

In reply to Geoff Quinn:

Go as a pair. A threesome will slow you down whatever people say - the exception being, perhaps, the odd exceptional well practised team of three, which you are not according to your post!

Can't you find a fourth person to make two teams of two?

Just my opinion, of course.

In reply to Geoff Quinn:
Having read other's opinions it seems like we're trying to 'find' a reason for three being OK rather than better than two. I'd still go as a pair buddy......can't see any compelling bonus of a party of three.
Having said that the Cassin group was five I think??....but they took several days and some died....mmmm?

In reply to Anonymous:


Whenever I've climbed in a three with one person doing all the leading for a while, I've always found it a pain to arrange the ropes at the end of each of pitch: in order to allow the leader to go again, all ropes have to repulled through (to avoid tangling) and, on confined stances, this ends up being a nightmare. (Of course, the same problem happens for a pair when one person is doing all the leading.)

Am I missing a trick in rope managment here? Anybody got any good tips?

In reply to Anonymous:

The other "system" for climbing as a three is to take three ropes. Each climber ties into the ends of two ropes such that a ring is formed. (Makes sense if you draw it out on paper.) So climber #1 is attached to ropes a & c; climber #2 is attached to ropes a & b; climber #3 is attached to ropes b & c.

Climber #1 leads first pitch, belays, brings up climber #2 and then climber #3. At this point, the ropes of climber #3 are correctly laid out for them to lead. Climber #3 now leads the next pitch. Repeat.

Advantages: everyone gets their share of leading; everyone is attached to two ropes; the climber not actively involved in belaying (the middle man) can be sorting

Disadvantages: more kit; needs good teamwork; slightly slower - though this can be minimised.

Bob

In reply to Anonymous:


you need to be very disciplined in the way you take in the rope and once both your followers get to the belay just turn the coils upside down and if you did them properly you should not have any problems

In reply to Bob:

Not quite sure how this would work Bob.

If I led and had two seconds follow they would each be joined to me by individual ropes but also to each other by individual ropes? Is this correct?

If so, doesn't it make two seconds climbing together with a rope joining them a complete pain in the ass? how is the rope between them taken in for example?

Yours "confusedely"

In reply to Anonymous:

A good way to speed up rope management is for both 2nds to climb together. As the leader takes in the rope, he flakes it out over his tie in point. When both the 2nds are at the belay, all you have to do is lift up the coils and turn them over, placing them back on the tie in of whoever is belaying. The new leader then takes a rope end off the other 2nd (who in turn takes a rope end off the old leader). The ropes are now ready for the new leader.

This also works (and is much simpler) when one person in a pair is doing all the leading and can save a lot of time on belays.

In reply to RichardB:

No, one second climbs then the other. Whilst the second second is climbing the first second is sorting out the gear etc. (confusing I know!) Yes it is slower as rather than having both seconds climbing together there is the extra time for the third man to climb.

Bob