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FWA Tell Chriss Craggs Nout V 6
© Franco Cookson OLD, Dec 2009
Route: Tell Chris Craggs Nout (winter) (HVS 5b)
Climbers: Franco Cookson
Camera used: Fuji FinePix S8000fd
3*VOTING: number of votes 9
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User Comments

A point that's interesting to me--what do you think about giving an 8m route a grade of V,6? Not having a go Franco, as I have a similar venue in mind for winter routes that won't be longer than 30m, and I'm wondering how they ought to be graded. My thoughts are that something like this ought to be more like III,6. What do you think?
Only a hill - 25/Dec/09
Needs a mixed grade. M4?
Dave Warburton - 25/Dec/09
I know nout about winter climbing, but I was more scared and it was harder than Bowfell Buttress, so thought it deserved at least this grade.
I'm reluctant to use M grades as I don't understand them and the Scottish grade reflects the danger better.
What you need is a bouldering/ highball system. The scottish grade works as a guide to the difficulties, as long as one doesn't start to think they've climbed a proper V 6. :)
Franco Cookson OLD - 25/Dec/09
Fair do--no doubts the tech grade is hard then.
The first (Roman) grade denotes the overall seriousness and difficulty, which is why short, less sustained routes often get lower overall grades. By that logic I don't really see how an 8m route can be the same grade as the Orion Face, even if it is more technical. To use an example, Tower Ridge is a much more serious and committing route than this one, even though it is much technically easier.
I completely agree that the Scottish winter system does not cater well for very short routes, simply as there has been little call for them! There was an interesting thread on this recently. I think when I do short routes I will simply use II or III then whatever tech grade I see fit.
Well done on getting out, by the way, and happy Christmas!
Only a hill - 25/Dec/09
If someone wants to repeat these routes and give them a more accurate grade then that would be great.
I used Scottish grades as it's the only system I vaguely understand.
This route was sketchy and about tech 6. Not very long or committing, but dangerous. I assumed that was around V?
Who knows. I don't.
Franco Cookson OLD - 25/Dec/09
Having looked at the photos of this route in summer, it must surely be harder than tech 6?
Jamie B - 26/Dec/09
Yeh, but I don't really dare give it a harder grade and winter's meant to be easy ;-)
Franco Cookson OLD - 26/Dec/09
So should rock routes on Stanage have a maximum grade of VS because they're not as high and so not as serious?
Overall grades take into account the exposure etc so you wouldn't expect a VS on the Old Man of Stoer to be as difficult as a climb of the same grade on a short outcrop but to suggest III is a massive reduction. Technical 6 climbing a reasonable distance above the ground (you can think of it as a belay ledge if it helps you equate the seriousness) so V 6 doesn't sound a huge amount off the mark. Theoretical musing of course.
Will Hunt - 26/Dec/09
Get back to your bouldering and sun-rock! Has Pen-y-ghent been in?
Dave Warburton - 27/Dec/09
Personally I would just record the technical grade for routes of this length, especially if you're soloing!
Jamie B - 27/Dec/09
why have you got a rack on if your soloing?
centurion05 - 09/Jan/10
We were leading other things.
Dave Warburton - 18/Aug/10
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This picture is copyright. If you want to reproduce or otherwise re-use it, please email the photographer direct via their user profile. Photo added December 25 2009.