UKC Logbook - 'Bananas and Coffee'

20m.

Rockfax Description
A good route, unfortunately spoilt by some crumbly calcite holds midway up. An often dirty start past a couple of resin 'P' bolts reaches the bottom of a calcite groove. Climb the groove and trend leftwards at its top to reach a good handrail in the smooth wall. Continue upwards on flat holds to the belay - hopefully just before strength runs out. © Rockfax

Chris Hardy, Nadim Siddiqui 25/May/1991.

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User	Date		Notes
Gary Gibson	14 Mar	Show βeta βeta: they named this route Barney Rubble	βeta?
Show beta βeta: they named this route Barney Rubble
CLH387	14 Feb	Show βeta βeta: Can’t be arsed debating the route any more as I know 100% I did the first ascent. Ring the guy who seconded the route Nadim Siddiqui 07977 400678 who’ll verify everything I’ve said. It’s been corrected in the NW guide so I don’t give a toss what you think	βeta?
Show beta βeta: Can’t be arsed debating the route any more as I know 100% I did the first ascent. Ring the guy who seconded the route Nadim Siddiqui 07977 400678 who’ll verify everything I’ve said. It’s been corrected in the NW guide so I don’t give a toss what you think
John Elcock	10 Jan	Show βeta βeta: CLH387... My fact's are 100% correct mate ;) I don't bullshit, and certainly have no need to fabricate facts. Gary Gibson knew the route had not been climbed. So did Dickinson. The very fact you didn't claim it at the time demonstrates you did not do it. If you are active in the Peak and North Wales you would certainly know where and who to contact about writing up new routes. We were just kids and still managed to get to and know where to write up routes. 33 years dude, sure your not confused! We left the route for a season out of courtesy to the person we saw 'dogging it', confirmed with GG and GD that it had not been claimed, then did it. Again, why wait 33 years? Speaks volumes really :)	βeta?
Show beta βeta: CLH387... My fact's are 100% correct mate ;) I don't bullshit, and certainly have no need to fabricate facts. Gary Gibson knew the route had not been climbed. So did Dickinson. The very fact you didn't claim it at the time demonstrates you did not do it. If you are active in the Peak and North Wales you would certainly know where and who to contact about writing up new routes. We were just kids and still managed to get to and know where to write up routes. 33 years dude, sure your not confused! We left the route for a season out of courtesy to the person we saw 'dogging it', confirmed with GG and GD that it had not been claimed, then did it. Again, why wait 33 years? Speaks volumes really :)
CLH387	29 Nov, 2023	Show βeta βeta: Well what a load of bullshit John Elcock. I know it’s my route as we bolted it and climbed it the same day. The only other person we saw that day was the guy who made the comments about putting up shelves. Not been there for 30+ years but I remember going slightly leftwards through some friable quartz stuff at mid height to reach some good jugs. The technical crux was just above and was slightly easier on the left but I did it both ways as I led the route twice (once a week or so later). As for dogging, you’re having a laugh mate… I was climbing 7c+ in those days so this route was easy (7a at most compared to Peak limestone) as I was regularly on-sighting 7a+ on Pen Trwyn. Did it first go after top rope inspection to decide on bolt placements. Actually did it twice and on one occasion I topped out. Can’t remember if we put a double bolt at the last clip for a belay… it’s 33 years ago! From memory Stewart Cathcart old guide had no address to report new routes so who do we report to? We also intended to go back and add some more routes but never got round to it… TBH it was pretty shite quality rock. Also gave up climbing for 24 years in the early 90s so only started again a few years ago when I added the feedback. GG went to the crag based upon our feedback and Gary was 100% aware that we had climbed the route, so get your facts correct! It’s a nothing crag anyhow so enjoy your local venue!	βeta?
Show beta βeta: Well what a load of bullshit John Elcock. I know it’s my route as we bolted it and climbed it the same day. The only other person we saw that day was the guy who made the comments about putting up shelves. Not been there for 30+ years but I remember going slightly leftwards through some friable quartz stuff at mid height to reach some good jugs. The technical crux was just above and was slightly easier on the left but I did it both ways as I led the route twice (once a week or so later). As for dogging, you’re having a laugh mate… I was climbing 7c+ in those days so this route was easy (7a at most compared to Peak limestone) as I was regularly on-sighting 7a+ on Pen Trwyn. Did it first go after top rope inspection to decide on bolt placements. Actually did it twice and on one occasion I topped out. Can’t remember if we put a double bolt at the last clip for a belay… it’s 33 years ago! From memory Stewart Cathcart old guide had no address to report new routes so who do we report to? We also intended to go back and add some more routes but never got round to it… TBH it was pretty shite quality rock. Also gave up climbing for 24 years in the early 90s so only started again a few years ago when I added the feedback. GG went to the crag based upon our feedback and Gary was 100% aware that we had climbed the route, so get your facts correct! It’s a nothing crag anyhow so enjoy your local venue!
John Elcock	31 Jul, 2023	Show βeta βeta: So, I was going to leave this as its nonsense, but as it’s gone to print ‘I think it’s time to re-straighten the record’. First off, you are not even sure if ‘it’s the route you are thinking of’. Yes, you bolted it, but no lower off. However, that day (the only day you were there according to your comments) I was also there with a friend. In the evening we sat at the top of the slab watching your progress. You were nowhere near getting the route. Interestingly I recently bumped into the other person I was with that day and asked him what he can remember of the people who bolted Bananas & Coffee. Without prompting, his recollection was identical to mine. Beyond that day we were in the Gorge most days as living in Pantymwyn without a car kind of forced us to if we wanted to climb. We left the route alone for a number of months as we believed it was someone’s project, and set about on our own new routes down there. I can be sure of this following statement as I live in the village and so did a bunch of other climbers I know, not to mention plenty of none climbers who walk their dogs past the gorge; No one else touched that route. At least one of us was down there every day weather it be bouldering, bolting, cleaning or rope jumping. At the time and I can’t remember if it was before or after the bolts on Bananas were put in, there was a BMC area meeting in Llangollen which was primarily to discuss the issue of further bolting on Clwyd Limestone, including the gorge. Bolts at Pothole and Maeshafyn were to be removed and no further bolting, but in the gorge, bolting was allowed. It was common knowledge at the time and at that meeting that the old S Cathcart guide was massively out of date and Gary Dickinson & Gary Gibson were putting together a new guide book. In fact, I first met Gary G at Pinfold before that meeting where he described himself as ‘The Guidebook’. Also, at the time (pre internet), new routes were written up in new routes books that resided in strategic cafes like Pete’s Eats. I believe, but never saw it, there was a new routes book in a café in Llangollen for routes in Clwyd. When the two Gary’s first visited the Gorge to review routes for inclusion into the new book, we were there. At this stage it was many many months past the bolting of Bananas and I had already climbed it and still none of us had seen another sole there. To both Gary’s knowledge, no one had come forward to claim it, so I did. Now, for those who have got this far reading this (trust me, its more of pain in the arse to write it), you have to ask yourself the following; If you had gone to the trouble of cleaning and bolting a route and actually climbed it ‘in one push’, would you not have made sure it was written up in the correct new routes book? And even contacted the people writing the new guide? Why wait 30 years? To those writing guidebooks, perhaps when there is some irregularity such as this you should do your due diligence and not just react to the first thing someone spouts on the internet.	βeta?
Show beta βeta: So, I was going to leave this as its nonsense, but as it’s gone to print ‘I think it’s time to re-straighten the record’. First off, you are not even sure if ‘it’s the route you are thinking of’. Yes, you bolted it, but no lower off. However, that day (the only day you were there according to your comments) I was also there with a friend. In the evening we sat at the top of the slab watching your progress. You were nowhere near getting the route. Interestingly I recently bumped into the other person I was with that day and asked him what he can remember of the people who bolted Bananas & Coffee. Without prompting, his recollection was identical to mine. Beyond that day we were in the Gorge most days as living in Pantymwyn without a car kind of forced us to if we wanted to climb. We left the route alone for a number of months as we believed it was someone’s project, and set about on our own new routes down there. I can be sure of this following statement as I live in the village and so did a bunch of other climbers I know, not to mention plenty of none climbers who walk their dogs past the gorge; No one else touched that route. At least one of us was down there every day weather it be bouldering, bolting, cleaning or rope jumping. At the time and I can’t remember if it was before or after the bolts on Bananas were put in, there was a BMC area meeting in Llangollen which was primarily to discuss the issue of further bolting on Clwyd Limestone, including the gorge. Bolts at Pothole and Maeshafyn were to be removed and no further bolting, but in the gorge, bolting was allowed. It was common knowledge at the time and at that meeting that the old S Cathcart guide was massively out of date and Gary Dickinson & Gary Gibson were putting together a new guide book. In fact, I first met Gary G at Pinfold before that meeting where he described himself as ‘The Guidebook’. Also, at the time (pre internet), new routes were written up in new routes books that resided in strategic cafes like Pete’s Eats. I believe, but never saw it, there was a new routes book in a café in Llangollen for routes in Clwyd. When the two Gary’s first visited the Gorge to review routes for inclusion into the new book, we were there. At this stage it was many many months past the bolting of Bananas and I had already climbed it and still none of us had seen another sole there. To both Gary’s knowledge, no one had come forward to claim it, so I did. Now, for those who have got this far reading this (trust me, its more of pain in the arse to write it), you have to ask yourself the following; If you had gone to the trouble of cleaning and bolting a route and actually climbed it ‘in one push’, would you not have made sure it was written up in the correct new routes book? And even contacted the people writing the new guide? Why wait 30 years? To those writing guidebooks, perhaps when there is some irregularity such as this you should do your due diligence and not just react to the first thing someone spouts on the internet.
Anna Rowe	19 May, 2023	Show βeta βeta: As of the 19/05/23 there is a birds nest with eggs in the jug above second bolt. So no climbing till they have fledged.	βeta?
Show beta βeta: As of the 19/05/23 there is a birds nest with eggs in the jug above second bolt. So no climbing till they have fledged.
CLH387	11 May, 2021	Show βeta βeta: Many years later lets put the record straight. If it's the route I'm thinking of then the first ascent was actually made by myself and Nadim Siddiqui. I know it was the FA because we bolted it and climbed it on the same day. We called at Barney Rubble and had intended to call that wall 'Flinstones Wall' and climb some of the other lines. Did go back and climb some of them but GG had beat us to them. I'll post the original date of the FA when I find it in my records. Chris Hardy Update: found my records and the FA was done 25th May 1991 which predates the credited FA by over a year. It’s highly likely they didn’t even make the 2nd ascent, let alone the first!	βeta?
Show beta βeta: Many years later lets put the record straight. If it's the route I'm thinking of then the first ascent was actually made by myself and Nadim Siddiqui. I know it was the FA because we bolted it and climbed it on the same day. We called at Barney Rubble and had intended to call that wall 'Flinstones Wall' and climb some of the other lines. Did go back and climb some of them but GG had beat us to them. I'll post the original date of the FA when I find it in my records. Chris Hardy Update: found my records and the FA was done 25th May 1991 which predates the credited FA by over a year. It’s highly likely they didn’t even make the 2nd ascent, let alone the first!