The Factor Two podcast is back for a third series. Wil Treasure shares more stories from the climbing world through interviews with both well-known and lesser-known characters. In-depth, personal accounts that aren't read from a page on a variety of themes. Settle down with a cuppa and have a listen...

Flow is a concept that can divide in climbing. For Dave Thomas it was the joyous experience that removed him from other problems in life. For Mina Leslie-Wujastyk it was a performance tool. Mina told me that a lot of her understanding of flow had come from conversations with Hazel Findlay and it had helped her to develop a different mindset both on and off the rock.

Off the back of these interviews I wanted to know more, both to understand flow as a scientific concept and as a more ethereal tool for self fulfilment. That journey took me down some interesting paths in climbing, from the writings of George Mallory to US legend Doug Robinson, to an understanding of how flow can improve our physical performance or our wellbeing.

Through conversations with Hazel Findlay and Dr Rebecca Williams I've explored the strange places that a flow state might take us, how better to experience one and the apparent contradiction at the heart of it all.

There are many inspirations for this episode. Previous interviewees Dave Thomas and Mina Leslie-Wujastyk gave me the first grounding in it. Robert Macfarlane's Mountains of the Mind provided some of the additional thoughts around George Mallory and Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi's excellent book Flow is well worth reading for anyone interested in learning more of the science behind flow states.