UKC

I'm using 700x38 gravel king slicks but I've had a number of punctures recently. I wouldn't mind using self sealing inner tubes but they are hard to come by right now. Should I be considering going tubeless?

Thoughts welcomed.

I've been using exactly the same tyres over winter - tubeless (Orange sealant) - no punctures. It'll be interesting to see how many thorns are in them when I take them off in a couple of weeks.

Same here but with Stans sealant. Took a wee while for them to stop deflating overnight, fine now.

OP: tubeless every time. I won’t go back to tubes.

Oh and one thing they never tell tell you in magazine articles about going tubeless: There's (in my experience) a world of difference between mounting a *new* tyre on a rim and remounting and *old* tyre (I swap tyres depending on season & conditions). With new tyres I can generally get the tyre to mount and seal with just thumbs and a track pump (Hunt alloy wheels). If however it's seen some use (stretched?) and I come to remounting it, then it's a different ball games: Always seem to need a tank and a bit more determination to get the 'pop'. YMMV.

why?

Better ride, less weight and no punctures.

Well that's odd and completely counter to my experience of 10+ years of tubeless across gravel, HT & FS bikes. the first fit is the hardest; once they been on, then I've found is so much easier as they seem to get a 'memory' of being on that rim.  (never used Hunt wheels though)

Good to hear some direct experience, thanks. Is it fairly straightforward to DIY tubeless or something best left to the bike shop?

Sounds pretty convincing to me! Thanks.

It takes a bit of practice (and can be frustrating & messy starting off); but once you get your preferred way of doing it sorted, you'll be fine.  You need to get the tyre bead line to fully pop off the rim.

You don't really want to have to rely on a bike shop long term; and you'll need to fix or replace with tube if out on a ride.

Having a small compressor will definitely make some rim/tyre combo much easier to sort back at base.

... there are some rim/tyre combos that might end up being very tricky.

Having C02 canisters (sometimes needed to get that fast push of air to seat some tyres),'worm' plugs and a spare tube are probably recommended for when out riding.  So there is some more faff/gear to take.

I think it boils down to rim/tyre combinations. With the Hunt rims I've never found a first fitting to be a problem - rarely even need tyre levers. On subsequent fittings it find the tyres tend to be a bit 'looser' which means that they're really easy to get onto the rim but more difficult to get them to pop-n-seal. Having said that, after a bit of cursing I think I've learned the right set of techniques (a blast tank + soapy water), so it's not a big problem - certainly not enough to avoid tubeless!

The whole of interaction of some combos of rims / tyres is odd.

Sounds like you've found the right way for your combo

I've just been experimenting this last week with tubeless for 32mm slicks (gravelking slick + ... they have better puncture protection compared to the standard). 

One tyre went on and sealed fine. The other was a job to retape rim, and then to get the valve tight enough to seal. 

I definitely needed a pressure unit to inflate and seat. 

They are now keeping up inflation and seem OK. I've yet to play with pressures too much. Yesterday's test ride of 20k seemed slightly sluggish and slow to accelerate. I'm normally riding 28mm in winter and 25mm in summer (limit of rim brakes!)

I don't have a dynaplug or bacon strip system currently.

Are they significantly lighter? maybe 30g in it. Does it seem like a hassle? Yes. 

Given I only seem to get about 1 puncture a year with tubes, I'm not excited about the self sealing. More worried they will fail at some point and I'll have to fit an inner tube on the road. 

You can try to put your own sealant in tubes if you can remove the valve stems from your inner tubes. 

I came to hate my Gravelking SKs. Some of the reason is in this post http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.com/2020/05/vittoria-trail-tech-g-tubeles... but I've tried patching the holes tire again twice - old style rubber inner tube patch and a car style mushroom plug. Neither worked. 

Getting them on tubeless the first time was a total pain too, definitely the trickiest tyres I've used to set up across three bikes (and four different rim models). Annoying enough for me to whine on Instagram about it! https://www.instagram.com/p/B2cUFWqjsOjH365WJMcRvdKIW2N5RJHAx7Vbxk0/?igshid... 

I've fitted many tubeless tyres over the years... 2.25" XC, 40mm & 38mm gravel, 32mm and 28mm road on various widths of rim.  ALL of them could be done at home without any special tools or faff.  And I've had 3 punctures in the last 5 years across all bikes/setups (one was a huge gash as a result of a giant inconspicuous road trench).  I'd never go back to tubes under any circumstances, although I carry one for emergencies and had to use it once after the aforementioned gash while cycling across Corsica.

Method: Mount tyre and valve.  Remove valve core.  Pump like buggery with track pump.  Inject sealant through valve with cheap plastic syringe.  Insert valve core.

If, for some reason (tight new tyres or tired arms?) that doest work, then inflate tyre with inner tube, crack one bead, remove tube, insert valve, and try again. With one bead seated it will be a breeze.

Before I went to a multi-wheel setup, I was switching tubeless tyres on my gravel bike regularly (road, summer gravel, winter gravel) and they always fitted without issue using the above.  Normally the first method would would fine.

For the record, im 100kg and fairly hard on tyres.

My regular tyres are now:

- 32mm Conti GP5000 (road, gravel, summer off road)

- 38mm Vitoria Terrano Dry (summer off road)

- 40mm Schwalbe G-one bite (winter off road, snow & ice)

- 2.25" Rocket Rons snakeskin (only on my XC bike)

Although interestingly I've found with 3.0 and 2.8 27.5+ tyres, I've need to use my DIY pop bottle compressor. I've got a 50 mm tyre on the front of my gravel bike that looks pretty voluminous but that went on with just a track pump IIRC. My Gravelkings are 38 mm but I needed to use the compressor and lots of bad language on them. But that's because they're rubbish I reckon!

Why you replying to me?. I run tubeless across multiple bikes without any hassle.

Maybe it was in support of your comments, maybe I clicked the wrong reply link... we'll never know!

I've never tried tyres as large as though but can imagine it would make it more likely to need a compressor.

Did the gravelkings have a tight or loose bead?

From memory tight. I remember the first time I tried setting them up I gave up and ran them with tubes for a couple of weeks - in which time I got two punctures! This seemed ridiculous coming from many years and 1000s (10,000?) kms with different versions of Schwalbe marathon plus tires with no punctures.

I  bought one of these

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/p/topeak-joe-blow-booster-track-pump?ut...

I  think it works better than a compressor

Ever man needs a blow booster... 

Slightly off-topic from the OP on the subject of mounting tubeless tyres - I've gone from scared of trying to feeling reasonably confident using the following method; tyre on rim, remove valve-core,  screw on presta to schrader adaptor (cost a couple of quid and easily available online), splash a bit of diluted washing up liquid around both tyre walls/ beads and then use an airline to inflate (carefully) until beads pop onto the rim. Then remove the presta to schrader adaptor, squirt sealant into tyre, re-insert valve core and inflate as normal.

If you don't have access to an airline (my neighbour has one in his garage) then a quick trip to the nearest garage forecourt is well worthwhile and saves a lot of aggro and expense on other bits of kit that you won't use very often

A homemade compressor needs a large pop bottle (about 30 p from Aldi and you get to drink all the lovely free lemonade in it first!), some duck tape around it, some relevant sized oxygen tubing (I bought a couple of metres for a few euros many years ago when making ice screw holders and used that - I think its what lots of people use for home brewing) and two valves salvaged from old inner tubes. I made mine maybe 7 years ago and it still work fine now. 

Wear work gloves and safety specs (my winter riding glasses!) just to be on the safe side. 

I change tyres quite often and my neighbour doesn't have an compressor, so going to a garage each time would be a real pain! I just use one of these...

https://www.merlincycles.com/beto-cja-001s-tubeless-air-tank-inflator-98943...

Go tubeless - I am not saying you cant get a flat but the occurrence is so much lower than when running tubes it makes it worthwhile. I got a reminder of this on my gravel bike (not setup tubeless) a couple of weekends ago in the New Forest, both me and my riding buddy got two punctures each from small pieces of flint that would of easily sealed with tubeless, we spent a total of more than an hour fixing punctures, standing around getting cold. In fact I would say a gravel bike is perhaps the sort of bike where you most want tubeless, you want to run low-ish tire pressures due to the lack of suspension on the bike, but the lower volume of the tires (relative to a MTB) makes them susceptible to pinch punctures.

I run tubeless on my road bikes and MTB, and wont be going back to the New Forest until my gravel bike is setup the same!

Self-sealing inner tubes I have seen multiple failures - sealant flying out of tire wall and not sealing at all. 

If you're worried about the bottle splitting you should probably use a pair of earplugs too, particularly if you're using it in a confined space like a garage. After 7 years I'd be getting nervous about some unknown cheap plastic degrading and getting brittle.

Like Toby, I used to use a pop bottle inflator to seat tubeless tyres. It works and I'd recommend this if you're just dabbling with tubeless for the first time and aren't yet sure about it. But in the long run, an air tank (if you already have a decent track pump) or dedicated tubeless pump is much more convenient. I bought a BETO tank from Merlin 18 months or so ago for £40 and wondered why I had been messing around with pop bottles, bits of hose and hose clamps for so long. 

Another +1 for tubeless from me.... I have one pair of spare wheels which still have tubes in. They'll stay that way for now, as they don't come out very often. But it'll only take one puncture in them before I convert them to tubeless also.

can I use my existing MTB rims with tubeless tyres. And how to I seal all the other holes?

How old are they? Most recent decent quality rims seem to be designed to be compatible. 

Rim tape seals the holes - available widely but surprisingly pricey for some tape. On my first wheels in converted I used Gorilla Tape. This was often recommended back then and works but when I came to re-tape them some years later the gunky glue residue took forever and a lot of graft to clean off completely. More recent wheels - gravel and MTB have come tubeless ready - i.e. pre taped.

Quite old so I guess I'll have to seal them. Otherwise though the clincher ribs will seal ok ?

Does nobody use a can of hairspray and a lighter? 😁

Hairspray? Pah, WD40 is the cyclist's go-to

I’ve struggled getting gravel kings to stay inflated on my gravel bike when running tubeless, currently running them with tubes until I can be bothered to redo the rim tape as a last attempt.

that’s in a pair of Hope rims.

Good to know, thanks.

I wonder if it's something to do with the GK's rubber compound? I had lots of issues with Magic Milk sealant - e.g., pin holes which wouldn't seal - but since changing to Orange Endurance sealant they've really been 'fit-and-forget' for the best part of a year.

I haven't had a problem since my valves were tightened about 100000Nm more than I thought they needed to be. Stan's Sealant.

Told yer they were rubbish!

Actually, I remember they seemed lovely to ride on when I did get them to work for a bit before the unfixable puncture. I have a 40 mm Goodyear Connector on the back - with a 50 mm one up front - and the back one is starting to wear a bit. I will probably put the unpunctured Gravelking on the back eventually and see if I can get a bit more of my money's worth out of at least one of them! It was the one on the back that punctured though, I guess they take more wear there.

Just wait until you get a puncture that doesn't seal and finally want to put that tube in you've been carrying around for years. There's no way you're getting that valve out trail-side!

I'll be ok. I've developed a set of air tools that run off co2 cartridges.

They're so powerful they can bend a frame if a thru axle is over tightened. 

😅

😂I want to like them, I’ve used early gravel kings in my old commuting bike (with tubes) and the tread and ride on these new 38’s are great……but 😕

stans sealant