UKC

Hi, I was cycling to work today and I experimented with having more of the ball of the foot on the pedal, rather than the arch as usual. I noticed it became more comfortable that way, maybe not ball of the foot right on the axis of the pedal but just a bit forward of the axis of the pedal. I ride a mountain bike by the way. Which part of the foot do people with flat pedals on here put on the pedal? Just curious as just made a change.

Also, I tried a new handlebar with more a rise and sweeps back. I'd like to try a Dutch style one with even more of a sweepback, see if that's even more comfortable. 

Thanks for any input, cheers!

Irrespective of your foot position, it is imperative that your knees point out at a 45 degree angle to the  top tube. This makes cars give you more clearance. Lower the saddle so your knees never straighten more than 45 degrees and you look like a gangster.

haha thanks man, top tips! Just back from an hour's blast in the countryside, seemed to get more power with being more towards the ball of my foot.

The ball, always have done as far as I can remember.  Always looks odd when I see people with the pedal under the arch, I assume they never need to stand up as it must feel odd.

Toe Clip and clip less pedals put your feet pretty much in the 'ball over axle position.

Mark

The (current) trend in XC riding is to have the cleats slammed back in the shoes... which is equivalent to having more of the arch than the balls of the feet over the axle with flat pedals.  This apparently gives better control (makes sense when standing in an attack position) and efficiency (maybe more quads  less calf?).

Through my own very basic experiments with cleat position, I am inclined to agree and feel I get less calf burn.  However, my winter and summer shoes have different maximum cleat setbacks, so it differs between my shoes.  Doesn't bother me that much to be honest.

However, its entirely personal and ultimately you should do whatever feels best!

Calf pain could be seat too high, hips rocking and toes pointing down at the bottom. 

Apparently there is some evidence that the midfoot position, ie the arch, is more efficient. I think prior to this it was assumed that the ball of the foot was better, certainly in the road bike world, and cleats were set up for that usually.

I think this probably counts as marginal gains though, and also relies on how the rest of the bike is set up, which axis the push from your hips goes down through the pedal etc. I wonder how much benefit there is in prescriptive bike set up for MTB anyway given how often you tend to shift position.

My biggest perceived improvement for pedals was to get an extra long one (catalyst by pedalling innovations) which seems to give me much more arch/foot support on long descents and seemingly less ache/fatigue in the foot. I’ve always seemed to naturally mid foot pedal anyway.

Oh, and I only MTB so know little about what the current thinking in road cycling is.

I've always cycled on the ball on my foot and  now that I've switched to SPD/SPD-SL my foot is locked there as well. I also cycle with my heels up, I have had people tell me that's inefficient but when I had my bike fit I was told that since that's how unnaturally cycle there's no problem there, although it does result in quite a high saddle position.

Burn may have been the wrong term... it was meant as muscle fatigue when pushing hard.  My seat is definitely on the lower side (especially as I have no dropper on my XC bikes).

On flats on mtb, centre line of ball of foot just forward of pedal axle centre line.

I think its a case of what works for you.  On my MTB (with flats) I tend to ride on my arches more than the balls of my feet, I think because my pedal stroke 'feels' closer to my road bike (with cleats) - even though its a different foot position.

youtube.com/watch?v=xum6W3pk59A&

Of interest. But as ever, you get what you pay fir with advice on the Internet. 

One school of thought puts the base joint of your big toe in line with the spindle of the of the pedal, but assumes you've got very stiff/rigid soles.

I personally have the cleats slightly forward of that - the so-called "sprinters" position. It feels fine to me on both road and mtb.

Should also have the shortest possible distance between spindle and foot - i.e. thinnest sole and cleat - for best efficiency.

How does plus-or-minus a few millimeters of stack affect efficiency? Where does the power go if you have slightly thicker pedal bodies or CF/FG soles?

I have my cleats as far back as they’ll go without giving me toe overlap. 

The lower it is, the more stable it is, so you don't lose energy stopping your foot rocking over the pedal.

Stiff/rigid soles means your foot can't flex over the rear edge of the pedal/cleat, so less fatigue and better energy transfer.

I am the same as you - I had my saddle a good chunk higher than my bike fit said it should be, but eventually compromised half way and am now used to that.

The axle of the pedal should be on a line that goes midway between the ball of your foot and the knuckle of your little toe (the apparent widest part of your foot).

Works for me

Compared to normal life (e.g., walking) cycling puts very little stress on the ankle, so any foot 'rocking' stabilisation is trivial compared to the work (energy consumption) that the quad and glutes are doing.

This has been pretty much debunked these days. There's more evidence that allowing the foot to flex a bit (as it does in normal life) actually reduces fatigue over a long ride and has no effect on peak power.

In both cases, very low stack and extra stiff soles might 'feel' nicer or 'more pro', but physiologically there's no evidence that they actually help in any way with cycling. It sometimes seems like cycling fashions are about as much physics/physiology based as HiFi's passion for 'oxygen-free cables for digital signals' (etc). 

TLDR: Get carbon fibre soled low stack shoes and pedals if you like the feel, but don't expect them to makes you any faster or less tired at the end of a 100 miler.

Indeed. 

Sadly the reason I bought extortionate bike shoes is that actually fit my feet and dying give me crippling pain after 60 miles. They are no better than my previous shoes that were under a third of the price. 

Now to find mtb shoes that fit. They won't be carbon soled.