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I'm still thinking about a steel frame bike - maybe from Spa in Harrogate - for a more comfortable ride on our rough Cumbrian road surfaces. The Spa steel Audax weighs 10.3 kg, but other manufacturers are very coy about revealing the weight of their machines.
So my question is - does 10.3kg sound really heavy, or not much more than an alloy bike?
Cheers
Steve
So my question is - does 10.3kg sound really heavy, or not much more than an alloy bike?
Cheers
Steve
In reply to gammarus:
My carbon road bike is 8Kg, my steel commuter is 12Kg though in the latter's case the Schwalbe Marathon tyres account for a good proportion of that.
Add two full water bottles to my carbon bike and it's 9.5Kg do I notice the difference? Not really. The difference between my two bikes isn't so much the weight but how it's distributed and how the frame responds to pedalling force being applied.
Weight (within limits) isn't the be all and end all that some think it is - I've read somewhere that an extra kilo weight is the equivalent performance wise to sticking an upright pencil on the stem.
ALC
My carbon road bike is 8Kg, my steel commuter is 12Kg though in the latter's case the Schwalbe Marathon tyres account for a good proportion of that.
Add two full water bottles to my carbon bike and it's 9.5Kg do I notice the difference? Not really. The difference between my two bikes isn't so much the weight but how it's distributed and how the frame responds to pedalling force being applied.
Weight (within limits) isn't the be all and end all that some think it is - I've read somewhere that an extra kilo weight is the equivalent performance wise to sticking an upright pencil on the stem.
ALC
In reply to gammarus:
I think it sounds a bit heavy to me. Back in the days a good steel 531 bike would come in at around 9.5kg (21lbs). I've no idea of your budget or where you intend to ride it but I wouldn't be spending a lot on it.
I think it sounds a bit heavy to me. Back in the days a good steel 531 bike would come in at around 9.5kg (21lbs). I've no idea of your budget or where you intend to ride it but I wouldn't be spending a lot on it.
In reply to JLS: comfort has more to do with frame design than material. My aluminium framed Ridley Aeron (carbon fork) winter/audax bike is a lot more comfortable than my steel framed Hewitt time trial bike. If you are in riding Cumbrian hills you will enjoy a lighter mike much more.
In reply to gammarus:
Interestingly the £300 aluminium decathlon tri band 3 comes in at a heavier 10.5kg so that might give you an idea of target cost to weight ratio.
Interestingly the £300 aluminium decathlon tri band 3 comes in at a heavier 10.5kg so that might give you an idea of target cost to weight ratio.
In reply to gammarus:
This one - http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s21p2866 (or the SRAM equivalent)?
From the comment about the Shimano R500 wheelset being lighter I suspect that the wheels are pretty heavy as the R500s aren't light.
ALC
This one - http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s21p2866 (or the SRAM equivalent)?
From the comment about the Shimano R500 wheelset being lighter I suspect that the wheels are pretty heavy as the R500s aren't light.
ALC
In reply to a lakeland climber:
£1300 seems a lot for a 10.3kg bike. The 72.5 deg angles will be comfortable mind. If that saddle weighs anything like brooks it's modelled on, then there is significant weight saving to be made right there.
To buy that bike you have to love the yee olde period features rather that be worried about weight. You'll not go up hills fast on that bike.
In reply to gammarus:
For £1300 you could do a lot worse than call into one of the excellent local bike shops in cumbria and ask them to build you a custum bike on an aluminum winter/audax frame with Shimano 105 gears and hand built wheels
For £1300 you could do a lot worse than call into one of the excellent local bike shops in cumbria and ask them to build you a custum bike on an aluminum winter/audax frame with Shimano 105 gears and hand built wheels
It would be £1100 if I join CTC but I take your point.
So - recommend me a bike for them Cumbrian hills!
Steve
So - recommend me a bike for them Cumbrian hills!
Steve
In reply to gammarus:
Where in Cumbria are you? It's a pretty big county! If you are in the Kendal area then Brucie's Bikes (at the entrance to the Abbot Hall car park) does, or used to, custom build bikes.
I'd go for anything with a relaxed frame and a decent rake on the front fork. Everything gets compartmentalised these days so what once might have been a "race" bike with extra rake on the forks is now called a "sportive" or "audax" bike. There's a bit of overlap though.
You don't say what type of riding you'd be doing - long day tours or something more akin to training? Your weight would make a difference as well - going for something with 20 spoke wheels might not be a good idea if you are 100Kg!
In a way buying a bike is a bit like buying (very expensive) rock shoes - they all do the job and until you've tried a pair on and done some routes then you can't figure out if it's the one for you. Unless you are lucky you need a bit of trial and error. Too much error though and you'll be put off biking for good!
ALC
Where in Cumbria are you? It's a pretty big county! If you are in the Kendal area then Brucie's Bikes (at the entrance to the Abbot Hall car park) does, or used to, custom build bikes.
I'd go for anything with a relaxed frame and a decent rake on the front fork. Everything gets compartmentalised these days so what once might have been a "race" bike with extra rake on the forks is now called a "sportive" or "audax" bike. There's a bit of overlap though.
You don't say what type of riding you'd be doing - long day tours or something more akin to training? Your weight would make a difference as well - going for something with 20 spoke wheels might not be a good idea if you are 100Kg!
In a way buying a bike is a bit like buying (very expensive) rock shoes - they all do the job and until you've tried a pair on and done some routes then you can't figure out if it's the one for you. Unless you are lucky you need a bit of trial and error. Too much error though and you'll be put off biking for good!
ALC
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Yes - Kendal area - day tours, fitness - definitely not racing or anything competitive - nearer 70kg than 100 - comfort and hill
climbing ability more important than speed and acceleration
S
Yes - Kendal area - day tours, fitness - definitely not racing or anything competitive - nearer 70kg than 100 - comfort and hill
climbing ability more important than speed and acceleration
S
In reply to gammarus:
I'm in Kendal and have a Wilier Montegrappa Xenon. Was going to do the Fred on it this year, but a minor op on my foot and now tendonitis in my adductor tendon has ruled me out. It's a bloody comfortable bike and if you get a 28 tooth cassette, it will climb anything.
I'm in Kendal and have a Wilier Montegrappa Xenon. Was going to do the Fred on it this year, but a minor op on my foot and now tendonitis in my adductor tendon has ruled me out. It's a bloody comfortable bike and if you get a 28 tooth cassette, it will climb anything.
In reply to gammarus:
Try Ghyllside in Ambleside if you want a steel bike. They do a range of their own bikes (I have one) and are very knowledgeable and helpful. Also look at the Thorn Audax Mk3, which might be a bit more sprightly. Also look at Ribble and Dolan, where you can get a much better bike than you might think you can afford. Have you thought of carbon? Comfortable, relatively inexpensive and more durable than everyone would have you believe.
The Spa bike is actually quite good value for what it is but it may be a bit too leisurely for Cumbria. Spa are also, in my experience, terrible to deal with.
Try Ghyllside in Ambleside if you want a steel bike. They do a range of their own bikes (I have one) and are very knowledgeable and helpful. Also look at the Thorn Audax Mk3, which might be a bit more sprightly. Also look at Ribble and Dolan, where you can get a much better bike than you might think you can afford. Have you thought of carbon? Comfortable, relatively inexpensive and more durable than everyone would have you believe.
The Spa bike is actually quite good value for what it is but it may be a bit too leisurely for Cumbria. Spa are also, in my experience, terrible to deal with.
Thanks for all these comments. I haven't ridden enough bikes to know what suits me best, so I lack the experience to commission a bike built for me. Spa have demonstrators in a range of sizes. I'll keep looking and asking advice.
In reply to gammarus:
Unless your racing, a slightly heavier bike will only get you fitter. Don't worry about it
> I'm still thinking about a steel frame bike - maybe from Spa in Harrogate - for a more comfortable ride on our rough Cumbrian road surfaces. The Spa steel Audax weighs 10.3 kg, but other manufacturers are very coy about revealing the weight of their machines.
>
> So my question is - does 10.3kg sound really heavy, or not much more than an alloy bike?
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve
>
> So my question is - does 10.3kg sound really heavy, or not much more than an alloy bike?
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve
Unless your racing, a slightly heavier bike will only get you fitter. Don't worry about it
In reply to gammarus: Ask what the frame weights are rather than overall bike weights. Most of the weight will be components. The Spa bike looks to have mudguards for instance which weigh a fair bit. Rigida Chrina rims aren't light weight rims but will last longer and take more wear than lighter race ones etc etc
Spa mostly cater for touring and hence their bikes will tend to be heavier but practical. It depends what you want the bike for. There is no point in buying a bike because it is lighter and then adding mudguards/heavier tyres etc and ending up with the same weight. Do you want a light stripped down race bike or a heavier but more comfortable/practical all day bike?
Spa mostly cater for touring and hence their bikes will tend to be heavier but practical. It depends what you want the bike for. There is no point in buying a bike because it is lighter and then adding mudguards/heavier tyres etc and ending up with the same weight. Do you want a light stripped down race bike or a heavier but more comfortable/practical all day bike?
In reply to gammarus:
My posh race bike weighs 6.5 kg
My commute bike (another race bike) is 7.5kg
My Tourer is probably around 15kg
10.3 for a steel audax bike with mud guards etc sounds reasonable. Don't get too hung up on frame material, my least comfy bike is a steel frame race bike, it's mainly in the design and geometry rather than the material.
Cheers
Toby
My posh race bike weighs 6.5 kg
My commute bike (another race bike) is 7.5kg
My Tourer is probably around 15kg
10.3 for a steel audax bike with mud guards etc sounds reasonable. Don't get too hung up on frame material, my least comfy bike is a steel frame race bike, it's mainly in the design and geometry rather than the material.
Cheers
Toby
In reply to Toby_W: What are you riding for your good bike? I'm just surprised anyone has manufactured setups below the UCI minimum mass (6.8kg), unless you've bought a light bike and swapped out parts and chopped and drilled bits like some of the top hill climbers do.
In reply to Liam M:
Quite a few framebuilders build lightweight framesets that will go well below UCI minimum with the right components. A lot of them are catering to the cyclo-sportive market in Europe that will pay £10,000+ for a bike. If that sounds ridiculous, remember that this is the same scene that accepts open use of PEDs on the start line.
Quite a few framebuilders build lightweight framesets that will go well below UCI minimum with the right components. A lot of them are catering to the cyclo-sportive market in Europe that will pay £10,000+ for a bike. If that sounds ridiculous, remember that this is the same scene that accepts open use of PEDs on the start line.
In reply to Liam M:
It's a cervelo R3 sl, all dura ace with KCNC brakes, lots of tour bikes are below uci weight they just add weight to make them up. Mostly off ebay or sales and it tickles me pink that my bike is better than the one that won the tour. If only I could afford my own mechanic to go with it.
I could get it a lot lighter, posh pedals and zipp 202 would shave half a kilo off easily or SRAM red.
Easy weight savers are conti pro race inner tubes at 50gms each compared to 100-150 for normal tubes, they also roll better.
I've always wondered with the min weight whether a super light bike with a big lump of lead in the bb would handle better due to the weight distribution or weather is too small a difference to matter.
Cheers
Toby
It's a cervelo R3 sl, all dura ace with KCNC brakes, lots of tour bikes are below uci weight they just add weight to make them up. Mostly off ebay or sales and it tickles me pink that my bike is better than the one that won the tour. If only I could afford my own mechanic to go with it.
I could get it a lot lighter, posh pedals and zipp 202 would shave half a kilo off easily or SRAM red.
Easy weight savers are conti pro race inner tubes at 50gms each compared to 100-150 for normal tubes, they also roll better.
I've always wondered with the min weight whether a super light bike with a big lump of lead in the bb would handle better due to the weight distribution or weather is too small a difference to matter.
Cheers
Toby
In reply to Liam M:
Oh and sadly at 6'3 and 76kg no amount of weigh saving on my bike will get me anywhere near your weight. If I were ten kilos lighter I would be truly awsome on hills.
Cheers
Toby
Oh and sadly at 6'3 and 76kg no amount of weigh saving on my bike will get me anywhere near your weight. If I were ten kilos lighter I would be truly awsome on hills.
Cheers
Toby
In reply to Toby_W:
Personally I would rather have the "spare" weight invested in strength and durability in the frame than bouncing around in the seat tube.
Personally I would rather have the "spare" weight invested in strength and durability in the frame than bouncing around in the seat tube.
In reply to Liam M:
My race bike is a cheap Dolan Aurora frame (900 quid) Bora wheels with Conti tubs, SRAM Red group, Ritchey bars and stem and a SLR 135g saddle - whole thing comes in at 30g over the limit and I could get it much lighter - it's easier and cheaper to shed 500g from the midriff though
E
> (In reply to Toby_W) What are you riding for your good bike? I'm just surprised anyone has manufactured setups below the UCI minimum mass (6.8kg), unless you've bought a light bike and swapped out parts and chopped and drilled bits like some of the top hill climbers do.
My race bike is a cheap Dolan Aurora frame (900 quid) Bora wheels with Conti tubs, SRAM Red group, Ritchey bars and stem and a SLR 135g saddle - whole thing comes in at 30g over the limit and I could get it much lighter - it's easier and cheaper to shed 500g from the midriff though
E
In reply to gammarus:
As a bench mark, this Dolan is good value at 10kg £699.00 Aloy frame Carbon fork.
http://www.dolan-bikes.com/road-bikes/aluminium/Sram/Preffisio%20Road%20Bik...
Review
http://www.dolan-bikes.com/reviews/Dolan-Preffisio-Road-Bike---Shimano-105....
and it appears to have mudguards which would reduce weight if removed.
You can also upgrade components like wheels to save weight.
mh
As a bench mark, this Dolan is good value at 10kg £699.00 Aloy frame Carbon fork.
http://www.dolan-bikes.com/road-bikes/aluminium/Sram/Preffisio%20Road%20Bik...
Review
http://www.dolan-bikes.com/reviews/Dolan-Preffisio-Road-Bike---Shimano-105....
and it appears to have mudguards which would reduce weight if removed.
You can also upgrade components like wheels to save weight.
mh
In reply to mikehike:
Can't really go wrong with that Dolan. Plenty of clubmen in the NW use them as winter bikes - though probably more ride the Ribble Audax equivalent for the same sort of money! Mudguard capability is very worthwhile at any time of the year here in the north west! A lot is written about the harshness of ride on Alu frames compared with steel - but in truth most people would struggle to notice a significant difference.
Can't really go wrong with that Dolan. Plenty of clubmen in the NW use them as winter bikes - though probably more ride the Ribble Audax equivalent for the same sort of money! Mudguard capability is very worthwhile at any time of the year here in the north west! A lot is written about the harshness of ride on Alu frames compared with steel - but in truth most people would struggle to notice a significant difference.
In reply to Lord of Starkness:
>A lot is written about the harshness of ride on Alu frames compared with steel - but in truth most people would struggle to notice a significant difference.
I'd agree with that, I live in Kendal and spend a lot of time riding round the Lakes and South Cumbria on a very stiff aluminium bike, a CAAD10. If anything I find it slightly more comfortable than my very posh and very light carbon bike just because it fits me fractionally better, fit is far more important than frame material in my experience. The big difference is that the carbon R3 is more fun in the hills, it just climbs and descends better, although if I put my nice wheels in the other bike the difference narrows. 10.3kg is heavy by modern standards and you should be able to get yourself something lighter that will be much better/ more fun to ride in the Lakes. I'm not sure what your budget is but look at something like a Cannondale Synapse [they do take mudguards] or one of the other myriad of bikes like it, there are plenty of deals around at the moment.
>A lot is written about the harshness of ride on Alu frames compared with steel - but in truth most people would struggle to notice a significant difference.
I'd agree with that, I live in Kendal and spend a lot of time riding round the Lakes and South Cumbria on a very stiff aluminium bike, a CAAD10. If anything I find it slightly more comfortable than my very posh and very light carbon bike just because it fits me fractionally better, fit is far more important than frame material in my experience. The big difference is that the carbon R3 is more fun in the hills, it just climbs and descends better, although if I put my nice wheels in the other bike the difference narrows. 10.3kg is heavy by modern standards and you should be able to get yourself something lighter that will be much better/ more fun to ride in the Lakes. I'm not sure what your budget is but look at something like a Cannondale Synapse [they do take mudguards] or one of the other myriad of bikes like it, there are plenty of deals around at the moment.
In reply to RBK:
I have a CAAD 5 (along with my R3) and also love it, corners like it's on rails and it does just feel alive due to the ring, you really feel the road (in a nice way). My Carbon frame is kinder on long rides though and as you say either weight, frame design or something else makes if fly up and down hills.
Cheers
Toby
I have a CAAD 5 (along with my R3) and also love it, corners like it's on rails and it does just feel alive due to the ring, you really feel the road (in a nice way). My Carbon frame is kinder on long rides though and as you say either weight, frame design or something else makes if fly up and down hills.
Cheers
Toby
In reply to Toby_W: I'm slightly obsessed by my CAAD10, I seem to spend far longer thinking about upgrading the parts on it than the Cervelo, as you say the ride and the cornering are fantastic. Interestingly quite a lot of the Liquigas riders were on them at last years Tour of Britain, I suspect this was part advert and partly that they considered the conditions only appropriate to their winter bikes!
In reply to a lakeland climber:
I've now had a chat with Brucie and seen some of his own label Brevatto bikes - could be the way forward
S
I've now had a chat with Brucie and seen some of his own label Brevatto bikes - could be the way forward
S
In reply to Toby_W:
It does sound reasonable. My Ribble Audax with fulcrum 5s weighs in at 22lbs, my 2010 Wilier Izoard with neutron ultras, centuar carbon GS, and FSA K wing carbon bars weighs in at 15lbs.
> (In reply to stevesmith)
>
> My posh race bike weighs 6.5 kg
> My commute bike (another race bike) is 7.5kg
> My Tourer is probably around 15kg
>
> 10.3 for a steel audax bike with mud guards etc sounds reasonable.
>
> My posh race bike weighs 6.5 kg
> My commute bike (another race bike) is 7.5kg
> My Tourer is probably around 15kg
>
> 10.3 for a steel audax bike with mud guards etc sounds reasonable.
It does sound reasonable. My Ribble Audax with fulcrum 5s weighs in at 22lbs, my 2010 Wilier Izoard with neutron ultras, centuar carbon GS, and FSA K wing carbon bars weighs in at 15lbs.
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