UKC

Is this a thing now? A valid cycling technique that I'm not aware of? Riding around London I've seen endless examples of terrible cycling, but the other day I was out in the morning rush hour and saw three people who looked like regular commuters and they all did this. Slow down to a crawl and move to the left, then turn right. One of them gave a half-hearted hand signal, the others no indication at all. When I turn right I check behind, move to the right of the lane, signal, check again and then turn. I thought this was the proper way, but I seem to be in a minority. Am I doing it wrong?

* Just in case this is mistaken for an anti-cycling post... The other day I walked the 200m from the workshop to the cycle docking station and during that walk I witnessed three examples of serious motoring offenses. So the drivers round here are worse then the cyclists, but I would have thought the cyclists would have had some sense of self preservation.

what's  cycle docking station?

Santander cycle hire. It's a London thing.

Cant help you then. Good luck. Be careful out there!

Move left and wait until suitable gap in traffic then move right.

Vaguely rings a bell from many, many years ago so perhaps in highway code or cycling proficiency test. Not new.

Maybe more suitable for slower & more timid cyclists or concerned about being rear ended whilst stationary in right hand lane waiting for gap in oncoming traffic.

Edit: Highway Code Rule 74

On the right. If you are turning right, check the traffic to ensure it is safe, then signal and move to the centre of the road. Wait until there is a safe gap in the oncoming traffic and give a final look before completing the turn. It may be safer to wait on the left until there is a safe gap or to dismount and push your cycle across the road.

Perhaps not move left, but certainly not move all the way right, because some clown carist will try and force their way through on your left with the risk of tipping you into the oncoming traffic.  I also try and keep the bike angled so that the direction of topple is not into the path of oncoming traffic.

So it is a thing then. I do tend to ride a pushbike like I'm on a motorcycle, defensive riding and maintaining my road position. So it seems odd to me. And I do wish they'd signal.

Edit: in reply to your edit...

So I'm right, but so are they. Except some of these people missed out the bit about waiting for a safe gap. And signalling.

Yes, if possible I always try and block my lane. If there's only one lane then I'm towards the right, but positioned so that I can't be passed on the left.

Never thought of that. Makes you a bit wider which may or may not be a good thing.

I've never thought of that either, but then I've realised that I do it anyway. Due to my years of motorcycle riding it's always left foot on the floor, right foot on the pedal when I'm stopped and waiting to go.

From the title I thought this was going to be a discussion about https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering, but interesting as that is, I am not sure it is relevant here.

I helped out the Bikeability instructor teaching a group of 10-year-olds in Kendal a fortnight ago and he said that for a right turn you adopt the primary position in the road, i.e. bang slap in the middle of the lane. This will, as has been pointed out, stop cars trying to get past you on the left, as well as providing the greatest visibility to any cars behind. And remember those "Lifesaver" looks, folks! (what I previously knew as a "quick glance")

I usually take up a dominant position which is central to the lane in most cases unless circumstances suggest otherwise.

However, on certain roads and situations, like fast A roads (as my experience unfortunately has been too frequently that my hand signals are ignored, and cars continue overtaking even whilst I’m at the junction I’m trying to turn right at) I usually for safety maintain a left ish position whilst indicating right still. Once I’m aware that the first car behind has made some acknowledgement (generally not overtaking!) that I intend to turn I take up a dominant position if possible.

If it's a fast road with the right turn in a bad postion for visibilty for oncoming and traffic from behind moving left and waiting to cross both lanes at once is sometimes better than sitting in an exposed positon, i have one turn like this on a regular route (actually near Kendal) and often pull into a side road on the left to make the right turn, it just feels so much safer than sitting in the middle of the road waiting for a gap at that particular point.

Also hook turns as they are called are mandatory in Melbourne, but that's to stop getting t-boned by a tram so perhaps a different use case.....

Yes that makes sense. We were at the stage of taking these Level 2 learner kids around the deserted roads of the Hallgarth estate, not quite busy A roads at this stage. Perhaps, like in chemistry, the ground rules and assumptions will all change as it gets more advanced.

Fast A roads are a different matter. If it's fast and busy I'd be inclined to do the pull over and cross like a pedestrian thing in this situation, but I generally manage to avoid those sorts of roads anyway.

My OP was about London commuting though. In one of the incidents the person was turning right off a cycle lane, so no motor vehicles to be worried about.

Interesting diversion though. I used to play around with this on the motorbike when I was bored on long straight roads. Steer the bars left and the bike drops into a right turn.

Not sure why you wod do it in a cycle lane to be honest

I have never ridden in London nor do i wish to but if i did i think i would choose the inconvenience of moving left then crossing with the flow of people and other traffic than i woud sitting in the middle of a junction, i used to travel to London on a regular basis (pre Covid) and was always amazed that there isn't 20 or 30 people a week killed seeing some of the riding going on, most seemed to have no regard for their own or others safety...

They change with practical experience based on different scenarios and past experiences I’ve found. Prioritising safety first makes you learn and do things that like stopping on left to turn right uncertain senarios.

I never use those 1/4 sized right turn “lanes” for example that I come across (Really only meant to mean a beak in the hatched safety zones between carriageways I guess but mistaken for right turn lanes by some). It would only allows all vehicles to pass inside and generally far too close to the bike and whilst still travelling at high speeds. I take the view a car can’t fit in them so would automatically stop or severely restrict following traffic whilst waiting to turn right, so I maintain my position in the straight on lane.

Also, like others mention, I generally position with my bike angled; both tilting left with left foot down when stopped) and angled to traffic by pointing right slightly when stopped. The latter gives a view of a broader obstacle to following traffic and makes it much easier to turn my head around frequently to update situation behind. I’ve have no problem if I’m creating a significant impact on following traffic to move my bike to the left allowing them to pass before I attempt to turn right though I tend to do that well before what could be a problem junction to help all round.

I now go Santander in London and I love it. Moving to the right of a lane can be impossible if it's busy, especially if there's a red bus just behind and out to get me ... but I wouldn't try to turn right from the left of the lane. If in doubt I get off and walk across the road at a crossing!

Ok, sorry, never driven or ridden in London. However, certainly plenty of A roads are in cities elsewhere. Fast is relative and in city density peak time traffic could be anything over a bike speed.

If it’s slowing down to a crawl, could some of what you’ve noticed be just a bit of wobble at slower speeds in maybe too high a gear; a natural instinct to veer left before right?

My experience in say Edinburgh is many right turns off A roads would not be possible to do it like a pedestrian at busy times (With the exception of where there is a traffic controlled crossing being at the junction). You just get stuck on the pavement.

However, I try my best to avoid any right turn where it is not lane segregated/traffic controlled, etc, when it it too busy and/or fast for the circumstances. I almost always go a longer route to avoid having to attempt to slow and/or stop heavy traffic to turn right. 

New one on me. 

they might have been Australian 😜, more specifically from Melbourne. Check out Hook turns. Guaranteed to terrify learners and visitors to Melbourne!

As part of the "Spaces for People" infrastructure installed during lockdown, Edinburgh put in this right turn 'patch' for cyclists on a busy arterial road: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.9191168,-3.2127708,3a,53.4y,346.16h,82.27...

The idea is that right-turning cyclists move on to the 'patch' when their light is green, which effectively puts them at the front of the queue on the road joining from the left.  They then wait until the lights change to let traffic from that road proceed, and nip across the junction to complete their right turn.  An interesting idea in principle, but severely limited in the number of cyclists it can safely accommodate during any one cycle of the lights - which, considering the idea was the encourage more people to cycle, rather seems to defeat the purpose.  It actually also makes the promptly-starting cyclist rather vulnerable to the all-too-common motorist running the red light on the major road.  Having used it once, it would be easy to conclude that its actual purpose was simply to get pesky, obstructive right-turning cyclists out of the way of important people commuting in to town in their shiny motorised armchairs (and never mind the fact that righteous right-turning motorists cause significantly more obstruction).

Had exactly this last week - clearly signalling to turn right and starting to move across the lane and arse in car behind overtook me anyway! Bastard - he wouldn't have known if I was going for the obvious turning or a driveway before that.

And that's why the last look behind before you go is called a life-saver.

You will have to ask them next time you see someone do it.  Anything else is speculation as to why they are doing what you observe. Since you see endless examples it won’t take long for you to report back on what they say.

Of course they could just be the missing HGV drivers trying cycling to see it from the side of a vulnerable user.

On a high speed road I'll sometimes pull over to the left (and stop), then cross as if I were a pedestrian (but cycling) if that makes sense.

I actually thought it was going to be about the Labour Party.

My worst example once was three cars overtook me after I started signalling a right turn intention. They were all on the opposite of the road so could have been a serious accident if anyone had exited out of the side road without checking both directions. They all must have known my intention as there was only one road to turn into on the right and it was clearly signed (somewhat ironically also signed with an official cycle route sign). The last of the three overtook fully on wrong side of road for the whole width of the side road; there was a straight line of bike - car - centre road marking of the road I was trying to turn into at one point. I missed that turn since I decided not to stop given that three cars had already overtaken me another might go for it as well.

I’ve also had cars with in risky moves in places where there have been signs like caution cyclists/cycleway, oncoming cyclists, etc. Wonder if some drivers actually pay attention to road signs particularly on roads that may be familiar to them!

I've twice had a car overtake me when i was stopped, in the primary position, at a pedestrian crossing, letting pedestrians cross. One was a mother pushing a pushchair, halfway across the crossing, and the car narrowly missed hitting the pushchair.

The desire to overtake cyclists at all costs is strong in some, and seems to result in tunnel vision, making everything else on the road disappear...

When I first read this thread, my glib response was perhaps they were just trying to take the racing line and hit the apex correctly. But then I thought, hang on I do that, and it’s nothing to do with the racing line. I don’t need to cycle in traffic (and kudos to those who do). I’m either on an old railway line (that winds its way down the valley) that is now a footpath or riding a bike trail. From the top of the line to town it’s all (very gradually) downhill. You can start in Blaenavon and not touch the pedals until Cwmbran (except when you cross a road or get on the canal), or you can push it and see what you can get up to. When flying down the line, or a trail, hanging left before turning to the right increases the distance you can see and gives you a chance to avoid hitting fido and/or it’s owner or a bloody great rock.

I once had another cyclist go past through a red light when I was stopped at a pedestrian crossing, who then had to swerve violently to avoid the toddler crossing with his mother.

He looked slightly taken aback when I caught up to him and explained that if I saw him do it again, I'd put my bike lock through his front spokes.