UKC

We have just done a 5 day ride and have got a bit saddle sore. We put Sudocrem or Drapolene on, but to no avail.
A few questions really,
Does the area eventually toughen up.
What is the best way to treat it, once we have it.
Are there better things to use than Drapolene etc, maybe Vasolene?

We are going on a much longer trip soon and do not want this issue spoiling it.

TIA

In reply to Godwin:

Are you already wearing padded lycia shorts commando? If so, then the only thing left is to change saddles, they are very much not one size fits all, however, annoyingly, you probably need a full day in the saddle to know whether it is for you or not. You can also experiment with altering the angle of your current saddle 

In reply to S Ramsay:

Worth adding that the cushiest saddles are often not the most comfortable. 

In reply to S Ramsay:

Yes, ride Commando. We have our saddles tilted slightly forwards, possibly a little experimentation there could help.
I really dreaded someone saying seats, as I have spoken with someone about this previously and it sounds like it could be a very complex and costly rabbit hole to go down.

People rave about Brooks saddles, but I also hear they need 500 miles of bedding in

I was hoping for a Magic Ungent.

In reply to Godwin:

We probably don't really want to know in detail - but where you get saddle sores seem to depend on different causes. I still haven't worked out why but I've found decent quality cycling shorts without shoulder straps as opposed to bib shorts seems better for me. But I'm also getting sores more with age, as I didn't get the problem nearly as much ten or twenty years ago. Heat, so sweat, also makes it worse. I did an overnight bikepack on Monday and Tuesday and despite being ready to wild camp, ended up on a campsite as a shower after day one definitely helped me go into day 2 with minimal soreness.

In reply to TobyA:

Our cycling pants will certainly be at the cheaper end, so probably looking into this would be a good and cost effective idea, even if it does not provide a total solution.

In reply to Godwin:

I would suggest investing in some good quality cycling shorts or bibs with a built in pad and wear them commando. The cheap ones are imo not worth it. And then get some cycling cream for the pad / your skin. Asos do some good cream. It works as a sweat barrier and protects and moisturises your skin to prevent sores. It genuinely works. 
 

Cheers

In reply to Godwin:

Mrs Diluted just completed All Points North which involved cycling 667 miles in 82 hours, she used Assos (AssSOS I call it...) cream and 2 Assos bib shorts, which cost a fortune but proved worthwhile.  Take home message is buy the best padding you can.

In reply to DerwentDiluted and ColdandWet,

there is a theme here, I just phoned a mate who is into cycling and he mentioned ASOS shorts, pricey but worth it.

In reply to Godwin:

The assos pads are amazing. It’s the combination of good pad and cream that really works. Using the pad without cream, the sweat and friction will still cause trouble

In reply to Godwin:

To go against the grain, I actually find non-padded shorts are better for me. My saddle is a really good fit, and I find that adding the padding of shorts changes the shape which contacts and it is less comfy.

So, spending time finding a saddle which really really works is worthwhile. I don't know if they still do, but Halfords used to have some which you could ride for 30 days and return if no good. Worth a look. Different set up positions change the pressure points too, so definitely play with that.

But try different combinations too of non-padded or different padding on the shorts. 

In reply to Godwin:

Things do toughen up but I wouldn't endure long before looking for an alternative answer. 

I use udderly smooth chamoise cream but really it just helps for the goin area when you get sweaty. 

Once you have saddle sores they are only going to get worse if you keep riding. 

Shorts are a personal thing, I don't find that spending a lot necessarily gets you a better pad than a mid range pair. I've used cheap planet x clubman bib shorts and funkier shorts very happily for long miles. One thing that very quickly makes me uncomfortable on a multi day trip is if I haven't washed my shorts thoroughly the night before.

In reply to Godwin:

Try Fiery Jack ointment 

In reply to Godwin:

Assos shorts in your size.  I no longer buy any others.

good luck.

Toby

In reply to Godwin:

I agree with gethin-allen.  Take several pairs of cycling shorts on a big trip and make sure that a) you put on a properly clean pair every day, and b) you use a decent cream, both for lubrication and to minimise the risk of infecting an inflamed area.

I've only had saddle sores once, on a ten day trip across Italy, where i got a bit slack about cleanliness towards the end of the trip.  Once bitten....

In reply to Dave Cundy:

Taking several shorts is an approach I had not considered. On reading kit lists for touring people seem to take one or two pairs. Your suggestion makes sense though. 

In reply to Godwin:

Good shorts(potentially £100 each), commando and bike fit.... extra padded seats are for grannies commuting etc. a lot of research goes into road bike seats (dimensions, shape etc) and they generally should be spirit level horizontal, as changing the angle will likely modify how you sit. 

In reply to Godwin:

Lots of good advice in prevention above (I tend to use vaseline cos I'm cheap). In terms of cure, if things get bad, a small amount of hydrocortisone 1% ointment on the affected areas before you go to bed will improve things quite a bit by the morning I find.

In reply to ExiledScot:

Thank you for your reply, but I must query this. Is this something you factually know, or something you believe. One person on this thread has already said "You can also experiment with altering the angle of your current saddle " which agrees with what a very experienced friend has told me.
Apologies for sounding pedantic, but both approaches make perfect sense to me.

In reply to Godwin:

I always rode regular saddles and never found them very comfortable, there's a way to measure the bones in one's bottom, turns out mine are very far apart (no sniggering). This lead me on a quest to find the widest saddles I could and they turned out to be a lot more comfortable.

In reply to Godwin:

I find that for rides under 40 miles, it doesn't really matter what i wear, but over that then i'm reaching for my better shorts and in summer chamois cream.  

A bit of toughening up does happen with more milage, but then sex or time of the month can leave things a bit more sensitive. 

When i'm doing longer tours i try to get out of my chamois ASAP and into something breathable - and keep my shorts as clean as possible by washing a pair each evening.  

In reply to Godwin:

0 to 4 degrees down, but the down is for people with back problems and even 1 degree can impact position, it's not tipped forwards to prevent chaffing. I'd look at seat height from pedals, lateral distance over them etc as it all effects how you legs cycle around. 

In reply to Godwin:

It does toughen up. You can also try trimming (but not shaving) excess hair on and around your contact points.

In reply to ExiledScot:

Thank you for this.
I think I will;

1. Check seat adjustments.
2. Investigate new shorts.
3. Probably buy some "proper", Bum cream.
4. Ensure good hygiene during tour.
5. Not try new seats at the moment.
6. Once healed, do more cycling to toughen area.

Does tyre pressure make a difference, how do I know what tyre pressure is correct?

In reply to Godwin:

Assos shorts and cream for me.

I have a range of saddles - one stupid expensive Specialized one, which is really comfortable, and a £100 Fizik one that is possibly a touch more comfortable but not as light.  The latter is a lot better than the Fabric Spoon it replaced.

I have a Brooks saddle on my commuter, which is very comfortable but not light.

As far as angle is concerned - if you're feeling pressure on the front of you pelvis, drop the nose of the saddle a touch.  Saddle position is a critical part of the overall fit of your bike, so before you move anything, put a durable mark of some sort as a reference point before you move anything.  Move things in 1/8 inch increments at most and see if it's better or worse.  Go out with an allen key in your pocket and experiment.   If you feel as though you sliding forward or sitting on the rail of you saddle, you'll end up putting too much pressure on your hands

In reply to Godwin:

A few factors in the mix as said by others....bike fit, saddle, good shorts, good hygiene and creams!

I had an issue a while back on a 5 day tour so I've now swapped to my road saddle on the tourer and put a longer stem on to basically equate my position on the road bike where I'm pretty good at being fairly aero..... Assos chamois cream is good and a definite for me these days for all rides. It's difficult on tour though isn't it because it's not always possible to shower immediately but ultimately I think this makes the difference plus fresh shorts every day. I find a certain type of Endura shorts fit well for me, non bib style, it's generally a case of trying things out. You sound pretty experienced on the bike though so hopefully you can find a solution...

In reply to Godwin:

Are you fat? If so, dropping some timber will help.

Also measure you sit bone width and make sure your saddle matches.

In reply to Godwin:

Check out your local bike shop for saddles - some will have a selection of demo saddles you can try before you buy, or borrow as many friends ones as you can to try what works for you.

Proper chamois cream and decent shorts are the best starting point. Assos cream is my preferred one - it's very good and has a pleasant smell. The Muc-Off one is also very good, but I personally can't stand the smell! There's a whole range from other companies, too, but I've not tried them.

Castelli shorts are also very good - I've done some multi-day trips with them with no issues. My Sunday best shorts are Assos, though.

In reply to Godwin:

Regarding the shorts Assos only appear to do bib shorts, which do not appeal, can anyone recommend any non Bib Shorts, also is Decathlon worth a look?

In reply to abr1966:

As you say about showers, but even if you can't shower, ditching the cycling shorts for normal shreddies or going commando as soon as possible helps ventilate! Sitting in a cafe in the same shorts you spent the last 5,6,7... hrs sweating in definitely doesn't. 

In reply to Godwin:

IMHO - they're not in the same league.  My 'starter' pair has long gone.  I have a pair of 3/4 length ones and the pad is in the wrong place - far too far forward - to the extent that I have had to check when on the bike (after wearing Assos ones) that they were not back to front.

OK for a few miles, but if pursuit of comfort is the objective....

Having said that, they may have improved/rectified them since I last bought a pair....

In reply to nniff:

The better budget ones I've seen have been DHB. But as you say many aren't up to the job. 

Op,

Don't over look bibs, they often fit better and stay in place over many hours, they don't twist or rotate as much. 

In reply

Going to go against the flow and suggest what works for me:

Decent quality cotton boxers and unrestricted airy shorts, no pads.

Works far better than horrible sweaty, tight lycra. Sooomuch more comfortable.  The downside is that you'll need a few for a long ride.

In reply to Godwin:

Finding shorts and saddles that suit you as an individual is a large part of it, for which there’s no easy answer. Seat height adjustment is also important - rocking will cause chafage. I use doublebase as chamois cream and when I do get saddle sores I dab them with surgical spirit which stings a little bit but is both an antiseptic and hardens the skin in that area. I think once you’ve had one though you’re a bit pre-disposed unfortunately   

In reply to Godwin:

I use Castelli Volo shorts version for touring, rather than the bib version.

I don't think they're a current model, but they do a shorts version of several of their bibs, so try them.

In reply to Godwin:

I think so - their top of the range ones have come out level best in some comparative tests alongside models from Castelli, Assos and Rapha that cost 3 or 4 times as much. 

I should maybe try some Assos ones as well as everyone raves about them, but it is hard to imagine they are really three or four times better than my Decathlon ones. 

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

Agree re saddle height. For me, the biggest thing is to shower and change as soon as the ride is over. Do not make the mistake of sitting around in the sweaty bibs after the ride with beer/coffee etc. Wash, fresh clothes, then relax. I also wear clean shorts each day, never same pair two days on the trot. I also use Assos chamois creme which does the job.

If I do get sore, Bepanthen cream applied when not riding helps speed up recovery.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Yes, second this strategy. I've got 2 identical pairs of Volo shorts and swap them daily.

Tried washing them on one trip, but altitude and temperature meant they actually froze solid and then took quite a bit of drying out, although not quite to the point of strapping them on top of luggage to dry on the way.

The last trip I did had no chance of washing, let alone drying, them, but was a supported thing, so could take more pairs.

In reply to Godwin:

Whatever shorts you do buy, make sure you've worn/washed them a few times before your big trip.

Golden rule is never to use untested "anything" on the day (unless forced to).

In reply to Godwin:

I’ve just pumped mine up and gone for a spin at 80 psi and it felt pretty “hard” and not that comfortable…article below has some tables on tyre width, rider weight, pressure….

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/workshop/road-bike-tyre-pressure/

In reply to Godwin:

Try both and see what works for you! Our bodies are all different, what works for one doesn't work for another. 

I tip my seat very slightly up at the nose, otherwise I slip forward constantly. 

Just experiment until you find the best for you. 

In reply to Wimlands:

I'm 63kg , my bike weighs 6.7kg and I ride 28mm tyres with 70psi rear and 65psi front. Rolls nicely, comfortable and (touch wood) do not get many punctures (gp5000's with latex tubes)

In reply to Godwin:

I'm not a cyclist but I believe this advice is highly rated by some

youtube.com/watch?v=UxWnQBbIDgQ&

In reply to Godwin:

Lots of good tips above.

It's worth pointing out that the original function of padded shorts was to provide a "stiff" area so that the fabric doesn't get rucked up or wrinkled between you and the saddle and cause chafing. The function wasn't ever really to provide cushioning. The two things seem to have become somewhat conflated. 

I like to have a pad in my shorts for the former reason, but I dislike cushioning. Thin and relatively stiff for me! 
 

In reply to girlymonkey:

That would suggest that the reach is too long for you. I have a similar issue on one of my bikes that, despite a bike fit, turned out to be too long for me - it's therefore now got a shorter stem and the saddle is pushed forward to compensate.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

“My bike weighs 6.7kg”

had to laugh at that…wouldn’t surprise me if mine is double that 😀 might get the scales out later.

In reply to kathrync:

I think there are a few misconceptions, like wide padded seats etc... it comes down to bio mechanics, if you have a wide seat, and don't most possess a near anorexic 60kg tour de France body(men that is), then as you pedal part of your upper inner thigh will brush against the seat as you push downwards, any seams and clothing stitching will lead to friction and chaffing. Narrower seat just big enough to support your bone structure, cycling shorts, good bike fit etc..  minimal friction between your flesh and the seat. 

In reply to Godwin:

Why don’t bib shorts appeal? I think that they are much more comfortable. I seen the replacement of non-bib shorts with mid-priced bib shorts make a huge difference with saddle soreness. My wife almost gave up cycling because of saddle discomfort, I bought her a nice new pair of bib shorts and she has been fine ever since. She now only throws her bike to the ground when she is lost.

In reply to Godwin:

There is an element of getting used to it but seeing as you did a tour recently I’d have thought you were broken in by now.

Assos shorts, though I also have Giordana bibs which are half the price and just as popular with my bottom.

Assos bum cream. It nips when you first apply it. You can teach yourself to enjoy it.

Brooks leather saddles may or may not require 500miles to break in. If they do, 500 miles is bugger all so no big deal.

Saddle comfort is in the arse of the beholder. I’m fairly snake-hipped and get on best with very skinny barely padded pro level race saddles. I have a brooks swift (or might be a team pro, the one with the big rivets) but I’d happily do a long tour on a race saddle. Be wary of big sofa saddles, they probably only suit people with big sofa bottoms.

In reply to Godwin:

There is an element of getting used to it but seeing as you did a tour recently I’d have thought you were broken in by now.

Assos shorts, though I also have Giordana bibs which are half the price and just as popular with my bottom.

Assos bum cream. It nips when you first apply it. You can teach yourself to enjoy it. It’s better than sudocreme etc. Keeping your undercarriage clean is key to avoiding saddle sores. On a tour I’ll change my shorts every day even if I don’t wash them until it’s convenient or they start to smell. Strapping yesterday’s shorts to the saddlebag gets the air through them. I’ve never had any bum issues when touring, unless you count food poisoning.

Brooks leather saddles may or may not require 500miles to break in. If they do, 500 miles is bugger all so no big deal.

Saddle comfort is in the arse of the beholder. I’m fairly snake-hipped and get on best with very skinny barely padded pro level race saddles. I have a brooks swift (or might be a team pro, the one with the big rivets) but I’d happily do a long tour on a race saddle. Be wary of big sofa saddles, they probably only suit people with big sofa bottoms.

In reply to 65:

I did get sore on the last ride, but put it down to the fact that I had not been on a bike for 4 months, then straight on the heb way.

This was probably a factor, but I also wore brand new, unwashed pants, which this thread has revealed is a bad plan.

To Nick.

I am 60 and just think I will look a bit odd in bib trousers. Maybe a lack of confidence thing 🤷

In reply to LastBoyScout:

No, I have tried shorter reach bikes and really don't like it, it feels too cramped. I have a long body and short limbs, so I am aware of quite my fit being odd. I always like the seat a tiny bit tilted up. 

We are just all different shapes and different things suit each of us 

In reply to Godwin: the bib braces go next to your skin so will be hidden under your top

In reply to kevin stephens:

Hmm, the thought of seeing myself in the mirror looking like a latter day Mick McManus is off putting. But possibly I should give them ago.

In reply to Godwin:

You can also wear baggy (or baggier) shorts over lycra if you feel a bit self conscious. I generally do this. Both commuting and when bikepacking I like to have pockets so that's another advantage over just lycra although there is a fashion now I think coming from gravel to put mesh pockets on lycra bibs. 

In reply to TobyA:

That's why cycling tops have pockets at the back

In reply to Godwin:

I'm 6 months off turning 60 and I look fantastic in bibs.

Re baggy shorts, yeh they're good for touring, over the top of padded undershorts. Depending on where you are in the world, not everyone welcomes getting a shrink wrapped Bury black pudding at eye level when you go for a coffee. Make sure you get cycling specific ones so they don't have seams in places where they might chafe. Plenty to choose from, I can't advise as I'm a lycra lout, even on MTBs.

In reply to Godwin: not much to add to the above ideas most of which I’ve tried . My tourer has a Brooke’s saddle , I wouldn’t use anything else for a long ride . Why are you against bib shorts ? I thought they looked ridiculous and swore I would never wear them . Then I did . I had  a pair of Assos shorts and they were nice but £ for £  not that much better than pearl izumi which I swear by and are almost always on sale somewhere or other , usually sport pursuit . I’d say try some bib shorts , only your riding partner need know . Also Rapha and castelli are over priced . ( had both )

In reply to mike123: if you can get into a 36 inch waist Then sport pursuit have some pearl Izumi rove shorts for £35 which is a proper bargain , not bib . 

In reply to mike123:

I suspect you have answered your own question there.

Possibly a Brooks Saddle in the future.

>  if you can get into a 36 inch waist Then sport pursuit have some pearl Izumi rove shorts for £35 which is a proper bargain , not bib . 

They look really smart, but are not padded, and I think I need padded.

In reply to Godwin:  as I said , try them , I eventually did after many years of quietly smirking at my friends .aren’t you curious as to why even normally sartorial gents such as myself forgo their normal standards ? And for that matter just about everybody who rides  a bike ? 
edit : I usually get Jeeves to warm mine up before I put them on 

In reply to mike123:

Hmm, I will think on it. My big disappointment is Moon do not do a padded cypher pant, I never normally wear anything else. 

In reply to girlymonkey:

Fair enough - I'm the opposite, long limbs in relation to body.

In reply to TobyA:

I usually do this mountain biking, partly because it protects the lycra shorts if I come off. I don't put stuff in the pockets because I don't want to fall on it.

Commuting, I have a couple of pockets on my rucksack straps, or use the back pockets in my top.

In reply to 65:

I use an old pair of North Face shorts for mountain biking and a pair of Montane ones for touring, neither are cycling specific.

Did buy a pair from Evans once, but returned them as the inner short was rubbish. Sometimes wish I'd kept them, as the shorts were really good, and just replaced the rubbish undershorts with something else.

In reply to Godwin:

Bargain: https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/p/endura-hummvee-ii-baggy-shorts

In reply to LastBoyScout:

If you're using those endura shorts or similar baggies with a liner, I'd suggest not using the little studs to attach the liner shorts to the baggies. The baggy shorts will sit a bit lower and end up dragging the liners down a little bit, meaning they can move round and chafe. If you keep them unattached you can pull the liners up nice and tight to keep the pad in place and the baggies can move separately 

In reply to a crap climber:

The trouble is nowadays, there really is too much choice. Shorts, Bibs, Baggies with detachable inners, padded underwear, not using padded at all. I remember not long ago going into the supermarket for some Jam, and started overthinking my selection, you would be amazed how many types of Blackberry Jam a major supermarket can have, eventually I just went sod it, and never bothered.

Thanks for all the input everyone, I have learnt a lot, I will go and have a ponder, and come back along and let you all know how it went. Off for a walk now and climbing tomorrow, so Tatty Bye for now

In reply to Godwin:

If no-one else has mentioned it, perhaps be careful with your search-engine spelling here - you might end up disappointed

In reply to Godwin:

Saddle, saddle, saddle - padded shorts are just masking the problem

Tried all sorts over the years padded shorts different saddles etc etc 

Most uncomfortable / comfortable by far was/is a Brookes B17 (personal preference)  It was awful to start with (set up level), but a bit of messing around with the angle and it is the most comfortable saddle I've ever used, no need for padded shorts or any other cycling specific shorts for that matter.

Other bikes have a various saddles of varying discomfort but I always find I can adjust the angle/ height for a reasonable level of comfort for the intended use.

re-  shorts I do have some Endura Humvee 3/4 length shorts but the zips failed very quickly, so I picked up some englebert strauss 3/4 length work shorts, ultra durable and pockets suitable for actually carrying stuff in, also come with vent zips for extra cooling.

In reply to Godwin:

Some useful info here:

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/article/izn20140123-All-Cycling...

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/article/izn20150827-All-Cycling...

Also maybe of interest to you, Endura Pro SL bib shorts have a choice of pads which you can match to your arse/saddle width:

https://padfit.endurasport.com/

Even if you end up with a saddle and shorts combination that proves satisfactory and you are meticulous with your hygiene, sadly it's not impossible to get a blocked pore/sebaceous cyst down there occasionally.