UKC

I need to stop doing this. It's not good for me, it's not going to help change their behaviour, and it might get nasty one day. But I just can't help myself. Anyone have any good strategies for keeping control?

I wasn't even on the bike today, just walking across a zebra crossing when a car went through close enough that my bag brushed it. They turned into a car park so I ran over and had a word. I calmly and politely pointed out that they were required to stop at zebra crossings. The reply - "it wasn't safe to stop". Just so moronic and entitled that there is no reasonable response, so I lost it and shouted at them. What should I have done? Because I need a better strategy, and I'm not going to just walk away from dangerous driving without saying something.

In reply to Hooo:

Leaving aside the fact a car should stop if a pedestrian steps into the road, I would not step onto a zebra crossing until I was positive the driver had seen me, and was going to stop.

"He was in the right"makes a terrible epitaph, and "he won a Darwin Award" is a worse one.

So my recommendation is, read the Highway Code.

18
At all crossings. When using any type of crossing you should
 

always check that the traffic has stopped before you start to cross or push a pram onto a crossing

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/rules-for-pedestrians-crossings.html#:~:tex....

In reply to Hooo:

Arrange to to see a counsellor. Then drive there.

In reply to Godwin:

I would never actually walk in front of a car unless it had stopped. This is not a hill I'm prepared to die on. But I'll walk into a crossing on the other side of the road and wait part way across until they stop. 

I'm pretty sure the instructions to car drivers use "must". Big difference.

You're one of the people I shout at, aren't you?

In reply to Hooo:

Pinballs through their rear windows will make you feel better 😀

In reply to Hooo:

I have long given up getting to worked up about this kind of crap, especially posting on here about it, as per the previous post it aways turns out its your fault and the motorist was right.

Sigh.

Get a camera and some thick skin is all I can advise. A bus driver tried quite hard to run me over in a cycle lane recently. I remonstrated with him and his explanation was he was in a bus so I need to get the f**k out if his way (which I had done otherwise I would have been very squished). I don't know why I bothered. I could go on but what's the point, this country hates cyclists for some reason. I think we are all "woke" or somthing.

In reply to Hooo:

Don't get mad, get even. Join the police, traffic division.

In reply to Hooo:

I am pretty sure you are correct, but if the driver does not stop, for whatever reason, the pedestrian comes out of it badly.

Not at all, I drive defensively and courteously, but treat the world as it is not as I wish it to be. TBH, it is one of the reasons I use UKC, I can come in here and scream, its not going to change the world, but gets it out of my system.

 

In reply to ebdon:

My comment was "
"He was in the right"makes a terrible epitaph" no one has said the motorist was.

What amuses me about this thread, is it is in the Bike forum, but at no point was a bike involved in the incident.

In reply to ebdon:

It is sometimes worth having a word though, so I don't want to just give up.

There's a little hill on the street I live on, and car drivers just love to pass me as I approach the brow, then panic when they see someone coming the other way, with predictable results. I've submitted camera footage of some of the worst offenders. The other week someone did this, then pulled over shortly after. So I stopped to have a word. They were most apologetic and clearly realised that they had made a stupid mistake. So I said thanks, waved, and carried on. So that's one car driver who has learned a lesson and will hopefully think twice in future before overtaking.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

LOL. There are many jobs I am absolutely not cut out to do, and police officer is high up the list! Dealing with selfish morons in a calm manner is fundamental to the role, and clearly not one of my skills.

In reply to Godwin:

Fair enough, you right. I just wish I didn't have to choose so often between being right and being dead!

In reply to Hooo:

It is sometimes, however you never know till after and it very much depends on your appetite for confrontation. Fight or flight is a weird thing and I've had people be very aggressive to me immediately after an incident turning to very apologetic when they have had time to think. 

In reply to ebdon:

Exactly. Which is the point of my OP, and why I posted on the bike forum - because cyclists have to deal with this a lot.

I genuinely want to know if people have a strategy to use in these situations. I think that if I have a plan ready I can follow that and not lose my rag. 

In reply to Hooo:

In my experience, basically it's not worth it. But I hate confrontation. I've also had some incidents when things have got scary when people are challenged and I've had to cycle away very fast.

In reply to Hooo:

I already have plans in place for some eventualities - next time someone shouts "pay your road tax" I'm going to say "get some exercise". Hopefully the complete non-sequitur will make them think, or at least annoy the f**k out of them like their phrase does to me.

And if I get into an argument with a Tesla driver when I'm on my bike I'm going to shout "pay your road tax".

In reply to ebdon:

Yeah. Been there. I now only get into a discussion if I have an exit available. A route where a car can't follow. 

In reply to Hooo:

Your first strategy, should be defensive riding, and not get into the situation on the first place. Eg your local little hill, possibly you could road position to make passing less of an option.

But if an altercation occurs,  I do believe Krav Magna is rather good, and would enable you to beat the living shit out of them.

Last weekend my wife and I were cycling country lanes and I noted at least 2 drivers texting or something on their phones, rather scary as a cyclist or a pedestrian. Bring on self driving cars say I.

In reply to Hooo:

When someone comes past me uncomfortably and unnecessarily close, I might shout a little - sometime just a muttered grumble mainly just to vent my own anger. But what I do do is throw my arm in the air in a McEnroe-esque early 80s "you've got to be kidding me! The ball was in!" sort of vibe. I doubt more than 5% of close passing drivers look back in the mirror and notice let alone feel any shame, but what it definitely seems to do is get noticed by drivers still behind who then invariably seem to either give me loads of space as they come past or just wait a bit for a safer bit of road where they can come past giving me lots of space.

I also always try to thumbs up or wave thanks to drivers who wait behind me to come past safely. That is definitely better for your general anxiety levels I reckon!

In reply to Hooo:

I feel your anger and frustration! 
 

Sometimes when I’m driving and the other driver is a dick (I live in London so this is roughly every 90 seconds), if I make eye contact then I will put on my best disappointed face and shake my head slowly and ruefully. It’s very hard to get mad when someone is giving it the old “but most of all you let yourself down” routine, although of course most young men are impervious to this approach. 
 

Obviously I’m human so the horn and the more Anglo-Saxon corners of English get used a lot too. 

In reply to Godwin:

I didn't ask for advice on defensive riding, thank you. I know what I'm doing.

My zebra crossing story in the OP is a good example - I took my right of way, but without putting myself in danger. Your response to that was that I shouldn't have crossed. That's not defensive, that's submissive.

In reply to Hooo:

It will always get bad tempered if we all insist on taking our right of way pn every occasion.

We all share the roads and sometimes we will submit and give up our right of way to.help someone else on their way.

Once you start doing that it all becomes more pleasant and relaxed and we become likely to lose our rag.

In reply to timjones:

There are certainly times when it's best to back down rather than make a point, but it sounds to me like you're suggesting pedestrians and cyclists should just give up and always let car drivers do what they want. I can't see this making it all more pleasant and relaxed. On the contrary, it will just make car drivers even more entitled. We need a major shift away from the attitude that cars rule and everyone else should work around them, and vulnerable road users safely asserting their right of way is an important part of this process.

In reply to timjones:

The point of rules isn’t to follow them just as and when we see fit, especially when one party is operating a machine that can easily kill the other. 

In reply to seankenny:

Are you saying that I should never pause or lift off when I'm driving to allow a pedestrian to cross, another car or cyclist to pull out of a side road or turn right into road?

Rules are useful but slavish adherence can often hinder progress.

In reply to Hooo:

You already know what you need to do. Just take a step back, let them get on with their bad behaviour, then continue with your day whilst trying to think about something more interesting. As you say you're not going to change their behaviour.

I was being aggresively tailgated by a HGV on the A590 in south Cumbria recently. He was driving about a car length behind me at 60mph. As there was a lot of traffic coming the other way it was tempting to just gently slow to a stop, then get out and go back to have a chat with him.

Instead I just pulled over in the next layby and let him go past. Once he was out of sight in the distance I pulled back out and carried on with my journey and felt much better for it. Obviously I don't forget incidents like this as I'm writing about it now, but simply letting it go is definitely the best option for me personally and in the long run I feel much better about myself for doing so.

It's really easy to petulantly think, "I can't let them win", but if you can manage to let other people's bad behaviour go it can actually be quite beneficial for you in the long run. It certainly is for me.

In reply to timjones:

Is slowing down against the rules? 

You just want cars to be number one on the road and for pedestrians to let entitled drivers do as they wish. Asking drivers to follow the rules on things like zebra crossings and mobile phone use is not hindering progress, it *is* progress.

In reply to seankenny:

Of course not but if I was to slavishly insist on claiming the right of way then I wouldn't do it.

Rubbish, we will all be better off when we get shot of the tribal attitudes and see all other road users as individuals rather than judging collectively by their chosen mode of transport for today's journey.

In reply to storm-petrel:

You need to pick your battles. I have to say that attempting to force an HGV to stop would be f**kin insane. I wouldn't try that in a car, let alone on a bike. Safety is the number one priority, and I will not even consider challenging another road user unless I'm sure I can keep myself safe.

A few months ago a guy I know who lives in a broken down van and struggling found himself a job, but he couldn't get there. I fixed up my wife's old bike and gave it to him. He lasted two weeks, then returned the slightly bent bike to me. A scaffolding lorry had deliberately rammed him off the road and into a ditch. The real kicker was the line of cars behind the lorry, who all drove by without stopping. It still makes me really angry. These are supposedly fellow humans who probably think they are decent people.

So I'm going to do my best to speak to people and try and get them to understand that pedestrians and cyclists have a right to be out and not have to be submissive to people in cars. Sometimes I get an apology, and it feels great. I think that I've made a small difference, that one person might be a little bit more thoughtful and considerate. But then I run up against a moron, and I don't have a move to use against them.

In reply to timjones:

If you were slavishly following the rules you also wouldn’t drive across a pedestrian crossing when there was already a pedestrian on it which, unlike not doing someone a favour by letting them pull out, is illegal and could easily lead to you killing someone. If you think that’s the trade-off (which it clearly isn’t, but let’s ignore that for now) then I’m struggling to see it as a problematic one.

Besides, if the driver the OP describes felt they couldn’t stop safely for a pedestrian already on a crossing then they are either driving too fast or not paying attention. So they’ve likely committed at least 2 offences, but somehow you still seem to think the pedestrian is the one at fault and that the driver deserves rewarding by being “helped on their way”. Bizarre. 

In reply to timjones:

I suspect ceding right of way probably indeed does overall cause more issues than if nobody did it, as it often causes confusion and as a result crashes.  One I've seen quite often in London in particular is a car stopping to let pedestrians cross/let someone out and a cyclist or motorcyclist flying past thinking they've stopped for another reason and nearly coming to grief.

We all do it though, I certainly do.  Maybe we shouldn't, and should indeed just stick rigidly to the rules.

In reply to Hooo:

Not start a conversation in the first place? If you tend to lose your temper when you do, decide a priori not to talk. Or if you really feel you want to engage and that it might sometimes do some good, plan to walk away the instant it's clear things aren't being well received. After all, it's almost certainly counter productive if the recipient isn't responding politely 

In reply to Hooo:

Looking at the thread title, perhaps  not thinking of people as "moron car drivers" would help too.  "Not very thoughtful people who've made a mistake and are probably embarrassed and naturally defensive", is likely the reality normally.

In reply to Hooo:

I'm not saying embrace the dark side. 

In reply to MG:

I don't assume they are all morons. I start out assuming that they are going to admit their mistake and apologise. We all make mistakes, but when someone calls me out on a mistake I've made I say sorry. Sometimes you do get people who are embarrassed and get defensive, and then the best thing to do is walk away and hope that when they've calmed down they'll think it through and realise they were wrong. And then sometimes you'll get someone like the one in the OP. Just thick as shit and beyond hope. They are the ones I don't know how to deal with.

In reply to MG:

More likely "arrogant b4st4rds who think that they're the only ones that count" or alternatively "blind/stupid/senile idiots who don't look where they're going".

Far too much of this goes on, and the Police don't seem to give a damn, presumably because either they can't be bothered, or, alternatively, they themselves have the same attitudes as said b4st4rds/idiots. On the contrary, even when such an "incident" results in injury/death, they seem to almost always bend over backwards to take the side of the car driver who is standing, whilst their victim is carted off to hospital or worse.

In reply to Stuart Williams:

If you track back up the thread I think you will find that I joined the conversation when it was suggested that it was submissive rather than defensive to cede your right of way.

I am speaking in general terms when I suggest that life might be better if we were all prepared to give a little more when sharing the roads rather.

My intention was to comment on the "what should I do" angle of the question rather than to pass judgement on an incident that I did not witness.

In reply to Neil Williams:

We should always consider what is behind us before giving way to let other traffic in.

It is of course also true that vehicles behind should not be flying past at the sort of speed that can result in near misses.

In reply to Hooo:

Try counting to 10.

When it happens to me (often), just saying 'one', 'two', instantly starts to calm me. 

By the time I get to 'five' or 'six' I feel back in control.

However, it doesn't always work, although sadly I get lots of practice.

The other thing I do is support my local campaign group.

This is very much a slow burn, due to the glacial rate of progress in building quality & protected cycle lanes in Sheffield. 

In reply to seankenny:

This is my most common go-to when cycling, especially when people start nosing into the road. I must admit I do tend to glare more than look disappointed, and sometimes mouth made-up obscenities; there seems little point shouting at cars, partly because the driver probably can't hear anyway, and partly because it's probably better for the soul just to try to let things slide (though this is definitely a struggle in the heat of the moment).

In reply to Hooo:

You crack on with asserting your right of way, just be aware if a Ford F150 V17 Sabre Tooth X77XCross74, with the owner uploading to Instagram as they truck down the road, arrives on the Zebra crossing at the same moment, it will go badly.
Or you could wait until cars stop, and I do feel your frustration, then cross.

In reply to Hooo:

Surely this is attempted murder!?! Were the police involved?

I'm not sure if it was you or someone else on here with stories about horrific behaviour from drivers to cyclists. I'm still not sure if I'm just lucky that this doesn't happen to me (I ride generally about 3000 kms p.a.) or you or whoever it was is super unlucky!

In reply to TobyA:

Bloody right! If it had been me, or I'd been a witness, then I'd be fighting to get someone convicted. But he didn't get the registration and no f**ker stopped to help, so what's he going to do? He didn't bother reporting it.

This sort of of thing doesn't happen to me. I spent 20 years riding a motorcycle in London, I learned a lot about defensive riding and a lot of it applies to cycling, so I can keep myself safe. I also have the luxury of being able to choose my route and mode of transport. There are many roads I just won't do on the bike. I'll detour round or take the car instead. But I really feel for the people who just want to get out on a sustainable method of transport and get beaten down by c**ts in cars.

In reply to Godwin:

FFS. If you're going to quote my post, at least read it first! The bit that said "without putting myself in danger"?

In reply to seankenny:

I like to give them a slow clap - if I'm sure they're not going to slam the brakes on!

It's amazing how many drivers can see you in their mirrors, but can't see you when you're in front of them!

In reply to Neil Williams:

I got knocked off and my motorbike written off in exactly this situation. I was filtering (perfectly legally), past a line of stopped traffic and someone had stopped to let someone out. Seeing nothing coming the other way, the driver just pulled out without considering that someone on a bike might have been filtering past that slow traffic. And I was by no means "flying past", meaning I wasn't badly injured, although I did try and take avoiding action!

Someone who heard the crash and saw me on the floor immediately called 999 for an ambulance, which also resulted in a police traffic officer attending - disappointingly, he decided not to charge the driver with any offences, although "driving without due care and attention" would have been top of my list.

The other scenario is, of course, a driver allowing someone to pull into a side turning when they can't clearly see down a bike lane on the inside of the stopped traffic.

In reply to timjones:

May be, but the responsibility is "entirely" on the driver pulling across the traffic to consider if it is safe to do so - they should not rely on the judgement of the driver letting them out, as they may have completely cocked it up. If they cannot clearly see themselves whether anything is coming, then they should not move.

Indeed. However, filtering past slow traffic on a bike/motorbike is entirely legal and this advantage of not getting stuck in traffic is one of the reasons people ride them. If you are pulling across a line of traffic, you should expect this as a possibility.

In reply to Hooo:

I just enjoy the opportunity to indulge in a big frowny faced shrug or in more deserving cases, some vigorous obscene gestures, a day of silent seething and a tedious retelling to wife or friends that evening detailing exactly why I was right and the other road user was a horse's arse.

While that is a sadly accurate description of how I deal with knobheads trying to kill me on the road I'd suggest if you're actually face to face with someone and losing your shi* you should probably either take a breath and walk away or just step back and call the police, let them deal with it before someone does something they regret.

My last altercation was with an HGV that tried to mow me down on a roundabout I was quite unreasonably using, presumably because giving way wears out his brakes out or something. We had a cracking bumper to bumper view of each other's excellent gesticulations and we probably both learned something. Not sure what.

jk

In reply to Hooo:

I've given up cycling in urban areas. Getting on a bike with the knowledge that people will try to kill you, either through carelessness/stupidity or intentionally, got too frightening.

In reply to Andy Johnson:

It's depressing how often people are driven to this point. As someone who's generally very pro-cycling, I can understand why there's pushback on schemes to reallocate road space towards cycling or close roads to motor traffic or whatever, but you'd think that expecting people to mostly follow the highway code and also not try to murder people wouldn't be too much to ask.

In reply to Hooo:

Unfortunately, I avoid cycling to work these days after a number of incidents (the worst of which was my own silly fault just for balance). It's only 10 - 15 minutes but local roads with cycle lanes that stop abruptly, traffic or even cars parked in them, lots of side streets and rat runs just didn't make for a relaxing ride.

My worst "remonstrating at a driver" moment (which was polite with no swearing, just an opinion that overtaking me on a blind bend wasn't the best idea) also almost got me or someone else killed as he then tried to run me off the road a second time in anger at being "told off" and then drove across a pavement and grass to escape from me catching him up again at the next junction!

I resolved to try and let things go after that. Some people really don't like being told off.

In reply to mountainbagger:

Got arm ache this morning thanking all the drivers for letting me past etc.  I'm sure normal service will resume..

In reply to Hooo:

Shouting at poor driving can certainly make you feel better, but if you're finding it to be a very frequent occurrence, have you asked yourself why? Do you live in an area with a lot of crap drivers? Are you maybe quick to get angry at this sort of thing after lots of bad experiences?

Zebra crossings get me a bit peeved sometimes. The other day I made a fairly sharp stop (on my bicycle) to let a pedestrian across, a cyclist zoomed by a couple of seconds later, and then a car after about 5 seconds. Plenty of time for each to stop. The pedestrian and me both rolled our eyes at each other. Try to let it go sometimes - but not necessarily every time. Sometimes people make a mistake that's not deliberate - and sometimes there are moron drivers.

In reply to Hooo:

Yes. Yes. And yes.

Mind your blood pressure, mate.

In reply to Hooo:

Hi- nasty and anyone would be cross with that one.  Perhaps it's just best to assume that everyone is trying to kill you all the time, whether or not they actually know it. Oh and they are tired / hung over / on crack / a psychopath with a loaded gun in the glove compartment. Usually the people that need someone to 'have a word' with them are the absolute last people to benefit from someone having said 'word'.

None of what's happened is personal, they didn't know you, they really don't care about you, they are all just utter morons and there is nothing that you can do about it. Shouting at them will reinforce their idiot mentalities and might get you a sore lip or worse. 

Radical acceptance plus hypervigilance- or just kill everyone else first.

In reply to Hooo:

I generally try to wave at the car drivers who give me the finger or shout abuse.

I did however report one driver who posted in a local community forum, quite proudly that he had tried to run a cyclist off the road (me) and would do it in his bus next time....he no longer works for National Express thank goodness.

I really don't understand the hatred directed toward people who chose to ride bikes. Yes, if you cycling in a large group delaying the progress of a queue of traffic and don't try to pull over when it's safe, then I understand drivers get annoyed. But the pure hatred is seriously unpleasant.

In reply to Hooo:

I think you've got to ask yourself whether the risk of a criminal conviction is worth it.  Obviously when you approached your bad driver you didn't intend to spark an altercation ... but sounds like it might not have been that difficult for it to have become physical.  Could it have escalated into assault or GBH .. even if you thought you were acting in self defense at the time??  The prosecutors would frame it that "a person with a history of a lack of control (which you've said you have) ... chased  (you said you ran) the driver down into a car park looking for a fight" ... I'm not saying that's true - I'm saying that's how they would frame it.

Here is a risk of things that "could" happen if you found yourself with a criminal conviction as a result of this:

1. Employment:  Employers may ask you to disclose your criminal history.  A criminal history could disqualify you from anything to do with children or the elderly.
2. Travel:  Or lack thereof. US and Australia being notable examples.
3. Education:  i.e. if you were to attempt to enroll in a publically funded education scheme.  Nursery care for example.
4. Jury Service:  Actually ... maybe exception from Jury service would be a win!
5. Mortgage:  You're required to disclose certain crimes and can impact your ability to buy and or rent.
6. Adoption.
7. Public Office
8. Insurance.

My advice = risks massively outweigh the benefits.  It's not worth it.  Let it go.  Put your, admirable, energies into something you can actually change ... but chasing drivers into a car park, irrespective of what your original intentions were, is not a good idea.

If you feel this strongly about bad drivers then wear camera ... send the footage to the police ... leave them to deal with it.

In reply to Hooo:

"Don't argue with idiots. They'll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience"

Brian Clough

In reply to Hooo:

Blow them a kiss and smile instead. 

You feel far happier spreading peace and love, they tend to explode in their cars. They know they did wrong, and that you've said so, but also the probable Alpha in them cant be happy with a cyclist blowing a passive aggressive kiss. Queue explosion.
Works well for car to car road rage too. 
If you laugh at them after they explode, that tends to pour gas on the fire. I'd suggest not doing it in standing traffic. Some folk are just nasty and not afraid to show it.

In reply to Hooo:

I live in Italy, where red traffic lights are... erm.... just a suggestion. I used to avoid using zebra crossings here cos lots of drivers just didn't stop - even to the extent that a poor pedestrian can have one car stopped on one side of the road, but will be reluctant to step off the curb cos cars are still whizzing by on the other side of the road. I used find this strategy good for my mental health cos if I didn't try to cross at a zebra crossing then I didn't expect drivers to stop.

The bizarre thing is that Italians don't generally get road rage, despite the number of outrageous driving stunts that go on: a quick colourful gesticulation and both parties just get on with their day. There's something that Brits can learn from that... but after years here it's not easy to say just what that something is. King Canute often springs to mind. 

My personal experience is grounded in Steve Peters's most excellent book 'The Chimp Paradox':

1) Remember that life is not fair

2) When somebody does something outrageous on the road I reframe my knee-jerk "should have" statement into a "could have" statement. E.g. 'The bastard should have stopped' becomes 'The bastard could have stopped'. It's weirdly and surprisingly soothing. It distracts from the rage and helps me feel more 'Italian' about it and just accept the affront as a fact of life and no big deal.

Then - and for me this is the kicker - I remind myself that if I avoid an altercation, I'll probably struggle to even remember the incident by day's end. If, however, I give a one-finger salute and nearly get into a fight (or worse) then I'll suffer for days and be scarred by the incident for the rest of my life. So that's the choice: drop into King Canute mode and scar myself, or just let it ride, knowing I'll have forgotten about it in half an hour. 

It works...most of the time.

In reply to Kean:

The last time I was in Italy I saw a car ram a moped side on three times for blocking a junction, the only place I didn't see road rage was Venice. 

In reply to Kean:

Excellent and very wise advice.

In reply to Kean:

Tangential, but as I was taking the toddler to nursery today, I suddenly remembered that the law changed last year such that pedestrians waiting to cross at side roads had right of way. (I don't drive, before anyone shouts at me...)

Anyway, this seems to be a thing that few if any drivers remember either. I guess the question for me is whether I should be stepping out into the road and making them wait (when it's reasonably safe to do so and not while I've got a small child with me) in order to normalize the idea that people should actually follow the rules, or whether it's not worth the inevitable grief when people don't understand why I'm not waiting.

It'd be quite nice from my point of view if people did follow this particular rule, because pedestrian crossings seem to be a bit of a foreign idea around here (leafy West Sheffield) and actually getting anywhere on foot at rush hour can feel like a bit of a mission.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

This highlights the issue that people don't read the Highway Code and thus probably genuinely don't know about it.  It does speak in favour of a requirement to retake the theory test at say 10 year intervals or whenever there's a major change.

In reply to Neil Williams:

Yeah, I don't know what the answer is but that wasn't meant to be an "evil drivers" post - getting people to change a behaviour that they've potentially been used to for decades isn't a thing that you can always do by just telling them once that they're supposed to do something different now.

In reply to Hooo:

I go for the "zero response" approach, or at least the best a driver will get out of me is a French shrug. Its a lot less stressful that way.

Bear in mind a lot of drivers are screaming behind their windscreens, at traffic lights, other drivers, cyclists etc, or any other reason their likely pointless and for certain unimportant journey is delayed by more than a few seconds...