UKC

I am in the market for a new commuter bike 

Some background - commute is 50 mile round trip country lanes into surburbia into central London. I have been doing this ride on my high end carbon road bike but want to stop using it due to more and more bike muggings and the fact I am wearing out the components dodging pedestrians in bus lanes and hitting potholes etc.

I think I want flat bars, mudguards and nicer riding position to save my poor lower back for the punishment it gets at weekends on the bike described above ^

I have a C2W voucher of £2k and currently have a couple of contenders. One is carbon frame and one is steel frame. I am tempted towards the steel for superior comfort with a slight weight penalty. Do others agree? 

Current contenders

Carbon - https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/fastroad-advanced-1

Steel - https://www.condorcycles.com/collections/all-framesets/products/condor-frat...

The condor would be frame and groupset only and I would add my own wheels to stay in budget.

Interested in others thoughts opinions 

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I get that Bike prices are silly these days are crazy money but the condor link is is £1.4K for a steel frame!

Seems like a mental price for something that is very conventional. 

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I have both carbon and steel bikes.  In your position I'd definitely recommend steel for the commute.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

What's up with titanium, it's the best ride and light. No need to put up with all the creaking/clicking carbon shite.

In reply to paul_the_northerner:

200 for the frame and 1200 for the word "Condor"

E

In reply to Removed User:

I hadn't found a titanium bike that was within budget and would take the voucher I have (Halfords C2W). But was definitely a consideration

In reply to Enty:

LOL - I tend to agree, but bike prices are insane full stop as far as I can tell. Saving 40 odd % does help 

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I don't think it's as simple as 'steel or carbon'. I did a 45 mile return commute a couple of times a week for a few years and found 1) bike geometry was more important than material, 2) carbon can be built to be comfortable and the weight saving over steel at that budget is helpful, 3) maintenance is a ballache - maybe a Canyon belt drive would be useful to avoid greasy fingers, 4) what's the wind like? an e-bike could be a godsend on headwind days

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Alpkit do titanium frames and also accept cycle to work. (They also let you borrow a bike for a few hours to play before you buy.) When I did it, it was through Halfords, but that was the recommended supplier, not the only one. ISTR, they gave a bunch of extras such as lights, lock, service and helmet which made it seem better value than getting from an independent.

If you want to try and avoid getting mugged, then dont ride a shiny bike of any description. A coating of Hammerite on everything will be a better deterrent than a less expensive, expensive bike.

In reply to dread-i:

That's interesting , thanks - I hadn't looked at Sonder at all, will give them a call.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Friend of mine has the Trek equivalent of the Giant you linked and he loves it.

I used to use an old carbon road bike for commuting, but used my alu hybrid with flat bars for a couple of weeks while that was having some maintenance done. What I found was that although I slightly preferred the more upright position of the hybrid, I much preferred the narrower drop bars on the road bike, as it was easier to filter through stationary traffic on the way home without clipping wing mirrors.

I'd therefore fit the narrowest bars you feel comfortable with. Look at some of the New York courier bikes for crazy narrow bars!

The last bike I bought was a carbon CX bike, partly to dabble in racing but mainly as a commuter - it's a little more upright than my proper road bike. And I paid less for the whole bike (on sale) than that Condor frame!

In reply to dread-i:

Or a quick wrap with electrical tape and a bunch of stickers - neither of which will disguise a carbon frame, due to the obvious shape of it.

In that respect, a steel frame would be more "stealth", if you want to lower your theft risk.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

About 10 years ago I swapped from what the was called a "sport hybrid" with a flat bar to a CX for commuting. My Felt hybrid was basically a flat bar CX or gravel bike (although the latter didn't exist then!). After riding the CX for about 6 years I got a not dissimilar Boardman gravel bike 4 years ago. This summer I did a three day bikepacking trip on my mountain bike and found just how I missed the loads of different hand positions on drop bars for longer rides. I ended up with a sore back and sore hands. I also noticed when I first went from flat bars to drop bars on my commute I was going about 4 kph faster in average speed for seemingly no extra effort. 

If you've been riding a high spec road bike, how about an endurance road bike or gravel bike, with a slightly shorter reach and higher front end? Basically a drop bar bike designed more for comfort than race performance? Keep going with drop bars as all the hand positions help with comfort I'm sure.

Hydraulic bakes are now a must for me  for commuting, but your budget puts lots of good gravel bike with hydraulics in reach. I've got the Boardman ADV 8.9 which has been great - even more so since I coughed up for decent Hunt wheels. But you might be able to get their carbon framed gravel bike for your budget - ADV 9.0 I think. That has been reviewed very well.

But, TL: DR if you are used to drop bars don't underestimate how flat bars can be uncomfy.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I've did that sort of commute for years.  In practice, the distance was too much for me daily, so i'd drive the out of town bit, park and then ride from there.  It took a 46 mile round trip down to 26, with the full monty once a week.

The things that are important IMHO:

• Wheels that can take the hits
• mounts for mudguards and rack.
• a rack and pannier (just one, mounted on the off-side to make you look bigger and protect the rear mech). Ortlieb more than pay for themselves.
• Drop bars that give a variety of hand positions (hoods, tops, drops and puppy paws).  You'll be grateful for the drops on the head wind days.
• A good saddle (Brooks for the commuter)
• Tough tyres, but not too industrial
• Disc brakes (there are c. 100 sets of traffic lights each way on my route).
• Redundancy in lighting (2 front, 2 back)
• No fancy components (mine is hydraulic/cable105).  I lost a rear mech at night when something i didn't see got caught in the rear spokes and mech and ripped wheel and mech apart.  I'd hate for that to happen with Di2

My commuter is alloy, but it's stood up to years of battering.  The only original components are front mech, frame and fork and headset, bars and stem, disc calipers and hoses, crank.  Both shifters have new parts within. 

As far as the frame goes - get something that you'll not be precious about.  The frame will get a heavy lock on it, put into racks, may get dropped, will get covered in filth and salt and will be generally abused, and then will do the same thing the next day.

I'd look at a Genesis Croix de Fer or similar in alloy - some good deals around at the moment.  I looked at a Condor as a replacement for a Jaegher frame that got broken - wasn't much taken with them - their days of skinny steel tubes seem to have gone

Fortunately, with the work from home thing, I now do a nice lap of box hill in the morning instead.  the commuter does this when the weather is minging.

In reply to dread-i:

I now have another contender (thx Dread-i)

https://alpkit.com/products/sonder-camino-ti-rival1-mechanical

The chap at Sonder said he thinks he can get this to £2k if I take flat bars (cheaper shifters)

Interesting points re drops having more hand positions for comfort. Unfortunately Alpkit have a hard rule that you can only use the voucher for purchase (you cannot top up with cash) so if I want the gravel titanium Camino, I cannot have the drops as not in budget.

The other thing I have to consider with this bike is the groupset will be 11 speed with single from chainring. Less maintenance (good) less gear ratios (bad?)

In reply to nniff:

All good points taken on board. In reality, my commuter is either locked indoors at home, or in a totally secure office basement garage. I'm not a "cycle around town stopping at cafe or popping into shops/pub/gym" type rider who would leave bike locked somewhere outside in public.

I find the distance doable because I work hybrid so only 3 days a week commuting. I coulnd't manage 5 days a week , would be permanently tired/ill

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Absolutely what nniff said.  I have every frame material and carbon is king.  If I could get my tourer frame in carbon (with everything nniff mentions) I'd use one for commuting.  No doubt gravel bikes will tick a lot of boxes.  

I'd add to invest in some good clothing and shoes to stay as dry and warm as possible through the winter or a cool and comfortable as possible in the summer.

Good luck.

Toby

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I can only comment on the gear ratios.  If I do the short route, I don't need the little ring (except for a few miserable howling gale days).  However, the little ring is much needed for the climbs over the hills at the end of the long route home (the last 500 yards are 1 in 12)

Riding into town with a broad spectrum cassette, i'm not sure that's a good idea.  You'll have masses of stop-start for the lights.   With a standard double ring, I shift all the way down to the last one or two on the cassette and feather the front mech a bit.  Then all the way back up and rinse and repeat 200m up the road.    In other words, I use all 11 gears and the big ring all the time.  If the fat end of your cassette is too big, you're going to be doing your stop-start with a reduced number of ratios, which will make it harder work and wear out those gears faster (and batter your knees).  It's the stop-start that wears you down.  This is why the internals of shifters and cable wear out (SJS Cycles are your friends in this regard).  When your gears seem reluctant to change down to the smallest sprocket, you have about 2 weeks before your gear change cable breaks.  In the meantime, the cable guide inside the shifter is wearing out rapidly.

I budgeted on c. £1/day for consumable parts (chain, cassette, bottom bracket (all the stop-start, I think), pads, cables, tyres.  Things like new chain rings, wheels were in addition to that.

You also must be a member of British Cycling for the insurance cover - third party, but also for when some 'see you next Tuesday' takes you out.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

Back in the day, I was a London cycle courier. We cut our bars down to about hip width. You instinctively know how wide you are and what gap you can walk through. Super narrow bars will give you the impression you can get through smaller gaps than you can, whilst also being crap at actual steering as well.

In reply to nniff:

Debateable - check your home insurance for what cover you have on that.

I've got British Cycling Silver membership - took it out after the incident with the guy hitting a girl in London, but also needed the race licence. They do a slightly cheaper commute option. Both come with a few benefits.

I did it mainly to separate the risk from the house insurance, but the way insurers operate is to try and shift/share the payout elsewhere - when I claimed on my travel insurance for a damaged item, the very first question asked was "is it insured under any other policy".

There's also CTC (and probably others) that do similar cover.

In reply to dread-i:

If you were the disliker on my post, then, yes, reading it again, I didn't mean to imply going "too" narrow, but some bikes do now seem to come with ridiculously wide bars.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

My two penneth....

I have;

1 carbon road bike

1 Aluminium road bike

2 steel....a tourer and a 1972 Harry Quinn.

I used to do a 18 mile each way commute and would always use the Alu or my tourer....with some good bomb proof wheels and conti gatorskins...

Steel every day for me on a commute....although that Condor looks overpriced even by today's standards!

In reply to LastBoyScout:

Not me.

With bars, its horses for courses, so to speak. Wide bars are good for control at lower speed. Narrow work if you're going fast in a straight(ish) line. Some bars are marked at each end, with the expectation you'll cut them down.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

PlanetX Ti is where i would be going for £2k, some pretty good deals at the moment:

https://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/bikes/road-bikes/titanium-road-bikes

Or their Steel commuter

https://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/bikes/road-bikes/planet-x-kaffenback

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Is it stored in a very secure location?

I got a £800 aluminium Vitus (discounted from considerably more) with 105 11 speed with hydraulic discs a few years ago for commuting 20 miles each way., stored securely. I didn't need any more, and it was only a few minutes slower than the carbon race bike. Slightly dead feeling, but it was fine. Commute now is only 3-4 miles, but all good.  Being left outside, means its got to be something that won't rust too much and I won't cry if it gets stolen. If it did get stolen I'd now replace it with something cheaper!

Although the Fastroad looks nice, I wouldn't buy carbon for commuting on. I wouldn't buy the condor either. £2000 is too much for a commute bike!

I'm not sure what I would buy if I really wanted flat handlebars - to be honest, I wouldn't. I'd want drops and hydraulic disks  - especially over 30k each way - you can put 'cyclocross levers' on shimano hydraulic disks too if you want to ride on the tops....

But if you want flat bars, there isn't too much choice: Cannondale Quick series? Quick 1? Giant Fastroad SL 1 with 105 and aluminium frame. 

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I have a fairlight secan which I got through a cycle scheme. Is your voucher limited at £2000? Mine allowed me to pick the value. 

The Secan is just lush, 2 fit geometries for each frame size, well thought through and I love it. It's heavy compared to my alu v braked cross bike, but a chunk lighter than my wife Cotic Escapade (which is also lovely!)

In reply to Dave B:

I'll 2nd that.

Commuting is tough on parts and components. You won't be washing down and re-fettling your drivetrain every day. You want it working smooth but it won't be anywhere near as well looked after as your weekend hobby horse.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:  I've had a couple of carbon bikes and quite a few good steel bikes through the years, and for performance and comfort I'd go for a decent carbon bike every day.  I think most people who drop money on steel are doing it for fashion

Titanium doesn't really get in the picture for me.  Carbon can have a better ride, and if you don't spend a lot of money on Ti you just get a bike that's a bit bendy and crack a bit too often.  

But that's just my opinion... beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Edit - how tall are you ? If you're very tall I'd really not be keen on steel or Ti as it gets a bit bendy, and you don't want to be pushing that on the way home into a tidy headwind.  If you're short, I'd avoid Al as it's all a bit harsh

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Was just about to suggest them...

In reply to Dave B:

Worth looking at Whyte: https://whytebikes.com/collections/commuter

I've got an older style Portobello, which is from their "fast road" series of hybrids and I've been very happy with it.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

Planet X don't take Halfords scheme unfortunately so non starter

Re why £2k? I could choose any amount up to £5k for voucher. Chose £2k purely on thought that was more than enough for a decent commuter and only £100 a month out of pay packet (but stupidly hadn't done much research before deadline to pick voucher amount so now I am trying to find a bike for that money which is the wrong way around - wont make that mistake again)

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Have you started paying it off? If not why not cancel it? I had to do this when I first submitted my application as I'd done it wrong. 

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Ribble do a TI or Steel (or al or carbon) gravel bike which you could spec with flats and 105 for your £2k i think.

They take the vouchers.

In reply to La benya:

I love my Ribble Ti CGR I bought with C2W.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Have a look at the Fairlight bikes, something like the Secan could be built up a few different ways, they seem like massively better value than Condor: https://fairlightcycles.com

In reply to LastBoyScout:

As far as insurance goes - third party may well be on a household policy, but the real issue for London commuting is for someone to look after you who knows their way around.  British Cycling put you onto Leigh Day who have done a really good job for me twice now, and take care of all of the bills as the case progresses.  Most recent one concluded today with a cheque for a battered knee (they paid for the bike in summer 2021).

In reply to Removed User:

Titanium frame with steel forks is something a couple of friends use. They say the steel forks give a better ride over the bumps and potholes.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I never pulled the trigger on it but I did converse with sonder about using a c2w voucher for a bike without wheels. That brought it to below the 2k and then my plan was to put on some 4 season hunt wheels.

In reply to Deleated bagger:

I've got carbon forks on my titanium roadie but it's not really a commuter - never ridden titanium forks. More generally though I think tyre type width has 90% of the bearing on road 'feel'.

In reply to nniff:

Seconded, a work colleague of mine was knocked off his bike and broke multiple bones and a lot of damage to teeth. Whilst the NHS put his pelvis, arm and jaw back together, it was the £60k worth of dental reconstruction that ended up as the bigger deal and British Cycling have acted in his defence to pursue the (very much at fault) driver.

One thing people are not necessarily aware of, is in injury claims, the defending insurance company may make an offer, if you refuse the offer because you think its not enough, it may go to court, in such circumstances if you lose you are then liable for the defending insurers costs of that process. So the motorists insurer will use this is a threat to get you to accept an early offer. If you are a member of British Cycling they indemnify against these potential costs allowing you to pursue a full claim without fear. In the case of my colleague this has been worth 10s of thousands, because the initial injury offer was way below the full costs of the dental work.

In reply to Removed User:

Indeed, it's amazing the turn around in tyre sizes and pressures in the last couple of years. Still I seem to feel the benefit. Both road bikes now fitted with Gatorskin 32mm tyres running at 65psi. Works for me.

In reply to Deleated bagger:

25 mm Conti Gp4000 on my roadie with modern wide rims. A lot nicer than the bone shaking 20 mm slicks of yesteryear!

In reply to nniff:

I have a carbon Eastway Zener with 28mm tyres and a Genesis C de F with gravel tyres.  Both commute really well.  But the Genesis is soooooo much more comfortable and forgiving, easily making up for the extra weight.  Of the two, I'd opt for my Genesis for commuting/

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

My wife commuted on a Fratello for years and it was a great bike, pretty sure she paid less than £1200 for a complete bike though and it was within the past 8 years, prices definitely seem crazy.

My recommendation, although I think prices for them seem to also have gone up a lot, is a Surly Crosscheck or similar (Straggler/Midnight Special).  Really bombproof steel frame, geometry feels similar to a 90s mountain bike and also they fit huge tires and full mudguards.  I had a set of 2 inch Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires on mine and was great for london roads where you're often hugging the kerb in the line of potholes and drains, pretty heavy though. 

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I ended up buying a Giant Fastroad Advanced 1

I swapped the stock wheels out for a pair of Black Inc 60's I had gathering dust in garage (a bit overkill), put on some Conti GP5000 30mm tyres and SKS raceblade pro mud guards.