UKC

What do you think? https://www.vauxwest.co.uk/news/2021-lcc-london-pricing-update-top-up-and-s... 

In the same city where a pint costs a tenner - about par for the course i'd say

That's London for you, earn more, pay more, it's not for me but each to their own. 

New centre, BethWall Green opening next year though as well as an additional training room at Canary wall. Plenty of new stuff for you all to play on. 

I have it on good authority bethwall should be a decent new centre.

I wouldn't pay anything like that myself but I'm sure they have done a business plan and must think enough will pay it that it will be a viable wall. 

Time for my stock answer about wall prices now. If you don't like the price don't go, if you think it should be cheaper jack your job in, obtain funding and set up your own wall charging less. 

Nearly that price up north now !!! 

I remember it being a fiver at awesome wall's!!! Nothing has changed just LESS climbing area for adults ! 

I think their pricing looks too cheap if anything.  If we want more staff in these walls to have job security, holiday pay, and a living wage, customers need to wake up to reality. I see it as a blight  that we have so much reliance on minimum wage zero hour contracts in climbing walls alongside middle class climbers moaning about entry costs.

I find it disappointing but typical you highlight the single use peak time non concession rate. Too many climbers are parsimonious to the point of damaging services provided for them. I'd prefer a higher single use rate (its hardly going to dent the wallets of the richest half of the customer base in London) and slightly better concessions, for those struggling.

My final moan is it seems according to that link that during covid restrictions people booked slots and didn't turn up and didn't cancel so everyone has to pay a booking fee now.

Mmmm but established operators keep opening new ones so they are obviously getting plenty out of it. Not sure entry price and wages have any connection. 

How much do you think is "plenty"?

To the OP: all walls (and businesses generally) are struggling with CV-19 but vauxwall seem to have done right by their staff over lockdown and are expanding - neither is cheap. For a casual climber (2/3 times per month, say) £14 is going to be okay - compare it to going to a film or a round of drinks. For keener climbers there's cheaper options, membership, punch cards yadda yadda.

What do YOU think?

I seriously doubt we have any Mike Ashley's in the climbing wall business. Bigger franchises will always expand more easily than single venue owned walls due to the business model and easier access to credit.

I'd urge climbers to ask staff about their contracts and if it looks like exploitation talk to the owners. On discounts, in my experience the best wall managements have been very kind to individual climbers struggling with costs and a quid on single use peak entry helps make that sort of action affordable.

I think Vauxhall has always been at the more expensive end here in London. If I was routinely paying £14 I probably would go less, one thing I found during lockdown is that from training at home my finger strength and upper body strength have got better than when going to the wall and just climbing. I usually only spend  about an hour at a time in the wall so  £14 per hour is more than most other leisure/sports costs such as cinema, swimming.

But then I go off peak and make use of multi-visit discounts etc so walls usually good value.

Seems quite a lot, but I remember paying maybe £8 to climb at London walls, more than 20 years ago.

I might be wrong, but I reckon climbing walls have got cheaper over the years.

I haven't been to either of the more central Vauxwall/VauxEast since the pandemic started, but I used to go at peak times before and they were always rammed, so can't blame them for upping the prices.

I live closer to Croywall (same chain) and while it's not worth me buying a membership because I don't love bouldering enough to go all the time, I will buy a batch of punchcards whenever they do a deal to get 20% off or whatever, so I generally don't pay anywhere near that price to climb at peak time. Granted I am lucky that I can afford to buy a batch at a time.

I think they're a great chain of walls. The staff are super friendly, welcoming and helpful even if you are bimbling about on the lowest grades (me) which is more than I can say for another popular bouldering wall in London where I never saw the staff so much as raise a smile and got the impression I was a bit of a nuisance. And has others have said, they looked after their staff during the pandemic pretty well.

I'm not a VauxWall regular but it's been packed the few times I've visited at weekends. Their peak rate was £13.50 last year and this clearly wasn't a barrier to entry for many. Their income/costs will have decreased considerably so I can see why they want to increase their entry fee.

I'm normally just about warmed up after an hour!

Looks like great value for the recurring pass price. In Aberdeen we have a 2 hour slot for £10 (roped climbing) or £7.50 an hour for bouldering, no passes being allowed currently and hardly any setting. You are getting access to multiple walls and free coffee and guest passes.

Sorry to hijack thread and feel free to PM me back - I've only just discovered Croywall...worth going to and is there parking somewhere convenient? Thanks!

Used to go in the mornings before work, my cycle there was my warm up!

How many staff does it require to run a wall where you just turn up and climb?

I'll reply here as you never know it might be useful for someone else.

Croywall is definitely worth going to, it is never as crazy as the more central walls and big enough to keep you occupied for a few hours. There is parking in the retail park next door I believe (limited to 2/3 hours, can be very busy when the shops are open), though traffic in Croydon is never fun and they have cycle parking indoors right next to reception, pretty safe. Also very close to the tram stop.

Not to mention the new London Fields Stronghold which will be a few mins walk away. .Plus Mile End..canary wharf and Bethnal Green..Londoners are spoilt.

You are maybe unaware of covid restrictions on numbers? A no-show removes income and the ability of someone else to climb in the slot instead. It's really scummy behaviour to not cancel a booking. If I was detained for some reason and couldn't phone in advance and so missed a slot I'd go and pay anyway. 

Yes I'm sure the castle broke the £10 barrier first. The arch /biscuit factory I think was  £12 but £50 for a monthly pass .

Looks pricey to me -  

£68/month, their Kendal wall £50/month 

quick look at 3 other London Walls, all £45/month 

I'm not sure what relevance that has to the numbers of staff that a wall needs to employ?

I know a few good wall owners and managers and they seem to me to be trying to keep businesses running in ridiculously difficult times and trying hard not to lose staff. Are you serious that you think they are worrying needlessly about customers letting them down and the incremental extra losses on top of the massive covid hits won't ever mean an extra  employee has to be let go. I"m clueless why you seem to think that, though maybe you can explain? This doesn't sound like you, I expected a bit more sympathy. Walls are a business but the good ones are also a community service.... a bit like UKC.

You suggested that we needed to pay more at walls in order for staff to have decent pay, holiday pay etc.

I queried how many staff were required to cover experienced climbers turning up and paying to climb.

The reason that you are clueless is because I never said anything about people not turning up for their bookings.

It's also worth remembering that they're having to clean more often as mandated by government advice. I've noticed the staff cleaning handrails, toilets etc more frequently.

Some might think that's a bit of a nonsense given the holds aren't being cleaned with the same frequency, but it's what they have to do to comply.

Thanks, neither cycling nor the tram is an option. I'll make an effort to get there after Christmas (if it's open?)

Walls will continue to push people towards monthly memberships. You'll see a greater and greater gulf between PAYG and monthly memberships. 

PAYG is ultimately a hassle they don't want. If walls could exclusively do promotional inductions and then sign people up for direct debits, they would be in a much better place. 

I've heard that in places like NYC the cost of a single visit is around the $30 mark, with memberships considerably more economical. 

There aren't many commercial gyms where you can just show up and pay for a one-off session anymore and I expect climbing walls to go the same way. 

So yes, it's easy to brandish a wall a rip-off for it's walk-in prices but understand that they would rather you signed up for a direct debit. 

This isn't in the UK, but my closest climbing wall, the last (and only time) I visited expected: 20 euro to visit, plus 2 euro to park in their (empty) car park, and 5 euro if it got dark and you wanted the lights on (honestly).  The climbing area was maybe 100 sq m, and about every fourth hold spun.  The tiny lead area didn't have any lower offs (or qds) so when you got to the top you needed to reverse back down to get your gear back.  There was probably a whole bunch of other idiosyncrasies that my mind has blanked out.  I think 14  quid sounds fine in comparison.

I used to live in New York City. As I recall it’s $30 or $35 for a peak entry at the major climbing gyms. Horrible if you’re just visiting, but on the plus side, it incentivizes memberships and helps to keep down the number of random punters at peak times. And I believe that Brooklyn Boulders at least has a sliding scale for low-income climbers.

I always thought the high PAYG was to benefit from the large numbers of punters who read about climbing in Timeout and come along in a group of 10 mates, all buy a coffee, and only stay for about an hour. This is where London walls surely differ to say, Kendal- the huge number of social/recreational climbers at peak time who are probably never going to sign up for a membership. Far more profitable than a few regulars paying 50/month to come in 5 days a week and stay for 3 hours. I assumed that was why certain climbing walls in London (naming no names) dedicate less and less of their space to training facilities and more and more space to top roping lines and 7m 5a auto belay routes, and virtually no new training facilities.

Anyway, shout out to Harrowall- I'm happy paying 68/month as the facilities are top notch, it's never overcrowded, and the staff are chill. I hope they are reasonably paid. 

My local went the other way and stopped selling yearly and monthly memberships and only does PAYG now. Guess they figure the walk ins will continue and the regulars will continue to pay the more expensive single entry charge as there aren't many other options in the area.

http://ukwalls.epizy.com/?city=London
Current prices don't seem to be scaring too many people away.

Having a guaranteed income and knowing 100% what your cashflow looks like is a valuable asset. You do tend to get a bit more money out of PAYG punters but they also cause more trouble; being generally a lot newer to rules, etiquette,  safety, and knowing how to land properly. Also takes far less management from a staffing point of view.

I've only spoken to one walls owners about it but they said that all direct debit memberships would be the dream. 

I’m never ever moaning again about the fiver my local wall takes from me when it’s too wet/cold/dark for climbing under a sky!