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Was at the plantation this afternoon, busy as you would expect however as I walked up to go over to Counts buttress I walked past Crescent arête and it was a disgrace, why the f*ck would you chalk footholds in this way? It doesn't do anything of benefit, does no favours to the rock and is right next to the path and makes climbers look like a bunch of dicks.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=300536
sorry it appears to be sideways
Post edited at 20:08
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In reply to FBSF:
How do you know they're not hand tickmarks for a futuristic new eliminate?
Seriously though, couldn't agree more.
This should be sent to punterwatch.
How do you know they're not hand tickmarks for a futuristic new eliminate?
Seriously though, couldn't agree more.
This should be sent to punterwatch.
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In reply to bouldery bits:
Current High Neb forecast from the Met Office, is drizzle on Thursday, if not before. Besides very overhanging boulder problems (that I'm not good enough to do) most chalk washes off British crags pretty quickly, especially at this time of year. I don't feel that bad about touching the odd foothold with chalky fingers in order to see where to put my foot a move or two later.
Current High Neb forecast from the Met Office, is drizzle on Thursday, if not before. Besides very overhanging boulder problems (that I'm not good enough to do) most chalk washes off British crags pretty quickly, especially at this time of year. I don't feel that bad about touching the odd foothold with chalky fingers in order to see where to put my foot a move or two later.
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In reply to TobyA:
I dont recall it being that overhanging? Then again, it was a little while ago!
I agree, a dab of chalk isn't a problem but the photo seems to show some fairly substantial tick marks. Seem a bit OTT really.
> Current High Neb forecast from the Met Office, is drizzle on Thursday, if not before. Besides very overhanging boulder problems (that I'm not good enough to do) most chalk washes off British crags pretty quickly, especially at this time of year. I don't feel that bad about touching the odd foothold with chalky fingers in order to see where to put my foot a move or two later.
I dont recall it being that overhanging? Then again, it was a little while ago!
I agree, a dab of chalk isn't a problem but the photo seems to show some fairly substantial tick marks. Seem a bit OTT really.
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In reply to bouldery bits:
Yeah - don't remember that problems so not sure if any of them are handholds as well as footholds - but if not, it is excessive. But, like I say, they will wash off pretty soon.
Yeah - don't remember that problems so not sure if any of them are handholds as well as footholds - but if not, it is excessive. But, like I say, they will wash off pretty soon.
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In reply to FBSF:
It was me. I was top roping and I'd chalked it up for a foothold but in the end I had to use my knee on it
It was me. I was top roping and I'd chalked it up for a foothold but in the end I had to use my knee on it
Post edited at 00:14
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In reply to bouldery bits:
There not tick marks, the foothold have been covered in chalk for what reason I don't know. I could reach the first 2 but even those I could only get a bit off without water.
There not tick marks, the foothold have been covered in chalk for what reason I don't know. I could reach the first 2 but even those I could only get a bit off without water.
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In reply to FBSF:
Having witnessed some horrendous falls from the problem,I think a few chalk marks are preferable to multiple fractures,and,as usual,the rain will wash them off.
Having witnessed some horrendous falls from the problem,I think a few chalk marks are preferable to multiple fractures,and,as usual,the rain will wash them off.
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In reply to paul mitchell:
Someone could just knock a few bolts in, I suppose.
"Chalk, aid on every move" - His Majesty
Someone could just knock a few bolts in, I suppose.
"Chalk, aid on every move" - His Majesty
Post edited at 19:56
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In reply to birdie num num:
I think you will find it was actually me. I used a spirit level and drew some nice straight lines on the rock with chalk. Then by using these as guides i stuck on 12 chalk blocks. I then used these to climb up. I well kicked it's back door in using this method.
I think you will find it was actually me. I used a spirit level and drew some nice straight lines on the rock with chalk. Then by using these as guides i stuck on 12 chalk blocks. I then used these to climb up. I well kicked it's back door in using this method.
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In reply to FBSF:
Putting chalk on footholds is a sure fire way of adding to the polish. Maybe a small tick mark or a trip to the opticians is needed
Putting chalk on footholds is a sure fire way of adding to the polish. Maybe a small tick mark or a trip to the opticians is needed
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In reply to paul mitchell:
This "rain" argument would be spurious even if it was true that chalk does rinse off in rain
Firstly it would mean that anyone who wishes to try the route until that rain has to struggle with slippery chalked holds.
Secondly, if generally adopted, it means that slapping chalk anywhere becomes acceptable so as soon as the rain stops it will simply be re-applied, meaning that only a tiny fortunate few, immediately after a storm, will ever get to climb on holds without a slippery layer of chalk.
> (In reply to fatboyslimfast)
>
> ,and,as usual,the rain will wash them off.
>
> ,and,as usual,the rain will wash them off.
This "rain" argument would be spurious even if it was true that chalk does rinse off in rain
Firstly it would mean that anyone who wishes to try the route until that rain has to struggle with slippery chalked holds.
Secondly, if generally adopted, it means that slapping chalk anywhere becomes acceptable so as soon as the rain stops it will simply be re-applied, meaning that only a tiny fortunate few, immediately after a storm, will ever get to climb on holds without a slippery layer of chalk.
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In reply to paul mitchell:
I think Ardverikie2's point is a valid one and deserves a better response than that.
I too am loathed to see the over-chalking that goes on as it is both ugly and detrimental to the rock's natural friction/grip. Contrary to your comments regarding Crescent Arete, caking the rocks pores with chalk decreases friction - not increases it - so maybe that's why the individuals in question were falling off.
A discreet tick here and there is acceptable, especially if they're brushed off afterwards along with all other excess chalk. It's a polite courtesy, doesn't take five minutes, and does a lot better a job than the rain (which just causes those horrible stains of chalk tears you see running down from the holds on popular problems).
I think Ardverikie2's point is a valid one and deserves a better response than that.
I too am loathed to see the over-chalking that goes on as it is both ugly and detrimental to the rock's natural friction/grip. Contrary to your comments regarding Crescent Arete, caking the rocks pores with chalk decreases friction - not increases it - so maybe that's why the individuals in question were falling off.
A discreet tick here and there is acceptable, especially if they're brushed off afterwards along with all other excess chalk. It's a polite courtesy, doesn't take five minutes, and does a lot better a job than the rain (which just causes those horrible stains of chalk tears you see running down from the holds on popular problems).
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In reply to Victoriacake:
Is this true, any evidence?
> Putting chalk on footholds is a sure fire way of adding to the polish.
Is this true, any evidence?
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In reply to paul mitchell:
How does your argument justify chalking footholds just off the ground? In any case, covering a foothold with chalk makes a fall more likely and foot slips and brushing off chalk-that should bever have been there in the first place- will both gradually erode the problem more than normal (one that is already suffering erosion from being so famous).
Just to be clear I've nothing at all against small dabs and small tickmarks.
How does your argument justify chalking footholds just off the ground? In any case, covering a foothold with chalk makes a fall more likely and foot slips and brushing off chalk-that should bever have been there in the first place- will both gradually erode the problem more than normal (one that is already suffering erosion from being so famous).
Just to be clear I've nothing at all against small dabs and small tickmarks.
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In reply to Offwidth:
In addition to that of course, it's ugly.
It can cause a certain amount of (really quite justified) resentment from non-climbers, and perhaps some climbers too, who want to enjoy the 'natural' vibe of some beautiful place. At some of the more sensitive crags it could be enough to threaten access.
Also, from a climber's point of view, excessive tick marks are tantamount to unsolicited and perhaps unwanted beta.
> In any case, covering a foothold with chalk makes a fall more likely and foot slips and ...
In addition to that of course, it's ugly.
It can cause a certain amount of (really quite justified) resentment from non-climbers, and perhaps some climbers too, who want to enjoy the 'natural' vibe of some beautiful place. At some of the more sensitive crags it could be enough to threaten access.
Also, from a climber's point of view, excessive tick marks are tantamount to unsolicited and perhaps unwanted beta.
Post edited at 14:50
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In reply to deepsoup:
Funnily enough I'm in the middle of putting an article together on this very topic and that is one of the key points I've tried to get across. It's not just visually offensive for climbers, it's tantamount to graffiti as far as a lot of other users are concerned!
If either yourself or anyone else reading this has any particualrly good images of over chalking or donkey/tick marks please send them through to rob (at) ukclimbing.com. The longer and more offensive the better
> It can cause a certain amount of (really quite justified) resentment from non-climbers, and perhaps some climbers too, who want to enjoy 'natural' vibe of some beautiful place. At some of the more sensitive crags it could be enough to threaten access.
Funnily enough I'm in the middle of putting an article together on this very topic and that is one of the key points I've tried to get across. It's not just visually offensive for climbers, it's tantamount to graffiti as far as a lot of other users are concerned!
If either yourself or anyone else reading this has any particualrly good images of over chalking or donkey/tick marks please send them through to rob (at) ukclimbing.com. The longer and more offensive the better
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In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:
You'll have seen this Rob? vimeo.com/48602839
One from Cheshire sandstone: https://www.instagram.com/p/BDLydbzNie0/?taken-by=steverile
Those footholds are big, dry and easy to spot, the one on the left possibly the biggest foothold on the crag. Stuff at hip height mostly ornament in the wrong place. Rubbish pic but there's a liberal coating of dandruff between. Sigh...
You'll have seen this Rob? vimeo.com/48602839
One from Cheshire sandstone: https://www.instagram.com/p/BDLydbzNie0/?taken-by=steverile
Those footholds are big, dry and easy to spot, the one on the left possibly the biggest foothold on the crag. Stuff at hip height mostly ornament in the wrong place. Rubbish pic but there's a liberal coating of dandruff between. Sigh...
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In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:
There's a whole thread on UKB!
> If either yourself or anyone else reading this has any particualrly good images of over chalking or donkey/tick marks please send them through to rob (at) ukclimbing.com. The longer and more offensive the better
There's a whole thread on UKB!
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In reply to steveriley:
Hi Steve,
Funnily enough I just embedded that video into the article.
That pic is exactly the sort of thing I was after, as it pretty much illustrates the mindset I'm finding it hard to get into - what are these people thinking?? As you say, the footholds are some of the biggest on the crag and pretty much unmissable. As for stuff at hip height, the mind boggles doesn't it?!?
Thanks for sending that through.
Hi Steve,
Funnily enough I just embedded that video into the article.
That pic is exactly the sort of thing I was after, as it pretty much illustrates the mindset I'm finding it hard to get into - what are these people thinking?? As you say, the footholds are some of the biggest on the crag and pretty much unmissable. As for stuff at hip height, the mind boggles doesn't it?!?
Thanks for sending that through.
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In reply to Si dH:
Check out any of the footholds at say a place like the Tor or craig y longridge which have suffered from foothold marking. Chalk is a mild abrasive, so adding that to mark or dry holds and then adding friction (from feet) will cause polish
Check out any of the footholds at say a place like the Tor or craig y longridge which have suffered from foothold marking. Chalk is a mild abrasive, so adding that to mark or dry holds and then adding friction (from feet) will cause polish
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In reply to FBSF:
Why in 2017 are we still only able to get white chalk? I know there would be no easy universal colour alternative, but is there anyone out there making coloured chalk that has less visual impact?
Why in 2017 are we still only able to get white chalk? I know there would be no easy universal colour alternative, but is there anyone out there making coloured chalk that has less visual impact?
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In reply to Jon Read:
Green would work pretty much anywhere at the moment.
> I know there would be no easy universal colour alternative,
Green would work pretty much anywhere at the moment.
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In reply to Dave Garnett:
Most of the places I climb it would be the stand-out winner (pardon the pun).
To get back on thread, I have found that there is some benefit to lightly chalking (and softly brushing it in) footholds on extremely lichen-prone bits of grit. We are not talking Stanage or Burbage here, but N / E facing sheltered crags or quarries. The herbicidal properties of the chalk kill back the lichen and algae in a much more rock-sensitive way than excessive brushing or wire-brushing -- see the big streaks below pockets on boulder problems*. The process doesn't happen in a session -- it's a longer term effect.
Sensitivity and love for the rock should prevail, mind...
* a good example being the arete on the right here: https://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=118327
Most of the places I climb it would be the stand-out winner (pardon the pun).
To get back on thread, I have found that there is some benefit to lightly chalking (and softly brushing it in) footholds on extremely lichen-prone bits of grit. We are not talking Stanage or Burbage here, but N / E facing sheltered crags or quarries. The herbicidal properties of the chalk kill back the lichen and algae in a much more rock-sensitive way than excessive brushing or wire-brushing -- see the big streaks below pockets on boulder problems*. The process doesn't happen in a session -- it's a longer term effect.
Sensitivity and love for the rock should prevail, mind...
* a good example being the arete on the right here: https://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=118327
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In reply to Jon Read:
I've, err, preconditioned a very green new line in this way a few weeks before I led it. As you say, better than over-brushing it.
> Most of the places I climb it would be the stand-out winner (pardon the pun).
> The herbicidal properties of the chalk kill back the lichen and algae in a much more rock-sensitive way than excessive brushing or wire-brushing
I've, err, preconditioned a very green new line in this way a few weeks before I led it. As you say, better than over-brushing it.
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In reply to FBSF:
I also despair at chalking of footholds, be better off using the non visually intrusive pof, especially when next to footpaths
> Was at the plantation this afternoon, busy as you would expect however as I walked up to go over to Counts buttress I walked past Crescent arête and it was a disgrace, why the f*ck would you chalk footholds in this way? It doesn't do anything of benefit, does no favours to the rock and is right next to the path and makes climbers look like a bunch of dicks.
I also despair at chalking of footholds, be better off using the non visually intrusive pof, especially when next to footpaths
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