UKC

Shoe Advice Please help

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 Spikemcl 20 Apr 2021
Thread moved from Bouldering to Gear

Hey guys,

I have just bought my first pair of aggressive climbing shoes, Scarpa Instinct VSR's.

I am a street shoe EU 40 1/2.

I had the owner of my local gym help fit these shoes at a 38 1/2 i just cant tell if they are TOO small.
I first had bought 38's but the pain was unbearable i couldn't complete a simple v1 slab climb because any weight on my toes was insane however its still similar with the size up.

I had some Scarpa Apria's in a 39 1/2 before these which were painful for my first few sessions but now are pretty comfy and dont feel the need to take off after climbs. The issue with these is that the heels were far too loose and i could easily slide it off (would definitely not hold on a heel hook)

My Pinky toes feel squished and even after wearing the Vsr's at home sitting down for 30 minutes my toes have all sorts of marks on them from the shoe and find it very hard to have all my weight on one toe. 

Do i just need to give the shoes more time to break in especially with the unknown feel of aggressive shoes or are they just too small?

Unfortunately after exchanging them once i dont feel ill be allowed to exchange them again. 

Any advice is greatly appreciated. 

Post edited at 14:28
 Cobra_Head 20 Apr 2021
In reply to Spikemcl:

What grade are you climbing?

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 whenry 20 Apr 2021
In reply to Spikemcl:

Whether they're too small or not is a subjective judgement - if you can't climb in them because they hurt too much then they're effectively too small for you, even if someone else with similarly sized feet finds them comfortable.

I found that my Instincts needed breaking in - 30 minutes is quite a long time to wear them in one stretch, especially at first. I wore mine for about five minutes at a time when I first bought them. I still certainly wouldn't wear them between climbs - not least because you'll extend their life far more. I'd persevere with them for a while.

N.B. - I've got similar sized feet to you, and have Instinct VSs in size 38 - they're reasonably comfortable as long as I cut my toenails. However, I don't find them nearly as comfortable as I found the old Boostics, yet they are more comfortable than the Vapours I tried a few years ago - your feet might just be the wrong shape for those shoes.

OP Spikemcl 20 Apr 2021
In reply to Cobra_Head:

Climbing 6c currently but only been back climbing for a week after a long break due to lockdowns

 Alex1 20 Apr 2021
In reply to Spikemcl:

Those are specialist shoes that are basically designed for overhanging terrain and hard indoor bouldering (e.g. V6 and above) - if you bought them as an all rounder or with the expectation of comfort you've bought the wrong shoe . I'm not surprised they are horribly painful on a V1 slab - there is no support in the sole so all your weight is going through your big toe rather then being spread across the shoe (on overhangs this is less of an issue, its also why you have to fit them tight).  This type of shoe should be pulled on at the start of the climb and then immediately removed at the bottom.  If they work for you on the hard stuff then keep them and buy another pair for general use.

9
OP Spikemcl 20 Apr 2021
In reply to whenry:

Appreciate the advice, Ill keep that in mind. I think ill keep them and just slowly break them in. 

I dont plan on wearing them for extended periods (between climbs) i more meant that with the aprias im not dying to take them off as soon as i complete a route 

 afx22 20 Apr 2021
In reply to Spikemcl:

I’ve had a few pairs of VSRs.  I’m street shoe size 41 and get on best with VSRs in a size 40.0.

They take a few sessions to bed in for me.  They’re also quite a stiff, powerful , supportive shoe when new’ish but soften up and turn into a great all round shoe for everything, except smearing.

OP Spikemcl 20 Apr 2021
In reply to Alex1:

Thanks Alex, 

You basically hit the nail on the head for the reason i purchased these shoes. I bought them for projects or trying to push my limits. I did not expect them to be comfy but after research i was concerned that using shoes that fit like they currently do could lead to irreversible damage. 

I bought the arpias for my comfort shoe  

 lorentz 20 Apr 2021
In reply to Spikemcl:

Like you I was looking to improve on the steep stuff (pre-Covid!) I bought a pair of VSRs and like you I just couldn't manage the pain. After about 4 weeks I gave up and bought the same size in La Sportiva Skwarmas and they just fit and felt so much better. They're aggressive enough and I take them off when taking a break but I can keep them on between attempts on a problem.

The shape of your feet plays a big part in the best shoe for you. I have a second toe longer than my big toe which has always caused issues. Pays to try on a few different brands to find which your toes deal with best, but it can be difficult as the only way to really "know" is to own them through the new shoe pain period and see how your feet and shoe mold together over time. 

In reply to Spikemcl:

I’m on about my 6th pair of VSR / VS. I always buy my street shoe size and they have worked great up to 7b+.

For the old Boostics I actually go up a half Euro size - and they are well tight enough for tiny edges.

VSR have Grip 2 rubber and are less of an edging shoe than the VS with the Edge rubber.  I use them for slab stuff as well as steep (as do many others) and they work just fine. Great all round shoe 


 

OP Spikemcl 20 Apr 2021
In reply to lorentz:

Thanks for the advice man, 

You've got the Greek feet! 

that sucks to hear especially with the price tag praying that this wont be the case for me but i guess time will tell. 

In reply to Spikemcl:

That's an insane amount of downsize for scarpa, at any grade, let alone 6c.

Scarpa fit me well, and I've owned quite  few of the recent breed. I'm 43 or 43.5 in all of them - VS, Instinct Slipper, Mago, Chimera, Boostic, Booster. I'm either a 44 or 44.5 in most trainers.

Downsizing 3 full euro sizes is too much, unless you wear your trainers massive.  I would say that if you cannot do a slab in them when new, they're deffo too small - Scarpas are not designed to need to be super tight (no shoes are any more). If I get a pair of new Instinct VSs I can climb ok right out the box, but they get a bit comfier after a week or so. I've re-soled all my shoes, and they are all still performing well without bagging out.

Don't worry about the guy in the shop - he's the one who's mis-selling you - go back and get at least a size bigger, if not two.

OP Spikemcl 20 Apr 2021
In reply to Alasdair Fulton:

Hey Alasdair, Appreciate the advice, 

The issue i have is that my heel even in this size does not fill out the shoe, I understand that this is part due to the shape of the shoe however i have tried so many shoes and still have the same issue, especially with the vsr's being known to have a lower volume heel and a relatively wide toe box. Any size above and i dont nearly fill out the heel enough, even with the 38 1/2's there is still space left in the heel however they are tight enough for the shoe not to slip when doing heel hooks. 

I am only downsizing 2 Euro sizes though not 3 

Post edited at 21:11
 Mike Nolan 21 Apr 2021
In reply to Spikemcl:

As others have said above, 2 sizes down for a 6C climber seems crazy tight, and suggests that the shoe is just the wrong shape. 
 

Where do you live? I’d try a different shop with a good range of shoes and knowledgeable staff. V12 in Llanberis would be my go to, they have an excellent range and great staff. 

Post edited at 08:50
 Offwidth 21 Apr 2021
In reply to Spikemcl:

Sounds to me that you are the latest in a long line of people missold climbing shoes. It seems that the shoes you purchased are either too tight and/or the wrong shape for your feet.

It's important to take pain from climbing shoes seriously if you want to avoid major foot problems in later life:

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/climbing-shoes-is-pain-insane

 Cobra_Head 21 Apr 2021
In reply to Mike Nolan:

> As others have said above, 2 sizes down for a 6C climber seems crazy tight, and suggests that the shoe is just the wrong shape. 

Agreed, I'm 6C on a good day, but it's not my shoes letting me down. My shoes can be worn all day and are a UK size bigger than street shoes.

Time and time again I see people struggling to break into the 6a grade having to take their shoes off between routes and going home early because their feet can't take it any more.

Regardless of the damage they might be doing to their feet, they actively hindering their climbing progression. Interestingly it seems to be those for whom a grade is an important issue which seem to be taking this more damaging route.

OP Spikemcl 21 Apr 2021
In reply to Cobra_Head, Offwidth, Mike Nolan: 

Appreciate all of your advice guys, 

I decided it was time to get the ruler out and actually measure my feet. 

So when actually converting my foot length in centimetres  (24cm) to EU size i am technically a 38

Being in the uk standard smallest mens shoe is always a 7 so for the longest time i just have just worn size 7 shoes and just kind of thought that was my size lol 

So in result these shoes are in reality half a size up!

You might be right and these shoes could just be the complete wrong shape for my feet. I dont want to sacrifice my health for my climbing ability so going to try breaking them in for a couple weeks. If the pain does not completely subside it'll be time to throw in the towel and accept they just dont fit but in the meantime im going to see if im able to break them in slightly as they are known to get much softer and see how it goes!

Appreciate all your replies, nothing more valuable than a 2nd 3rd 4th 5th ect opinion. 

1
 mrjonathanr 21 Apr 2021
In reply to Spikemcl:

I use VSR in 41, my street shoe is 42. 41s are snug. I can cram into 40.5 but get no benefit to going more than one size down.

You have gone 2 sizes down from street shoes? They are a fairly broad fit, so it probably won't be because the last is too narrow. Is the last a good fit for your foot shape? I'd put on plastic bags to slide your feet easily in/out of shoes and try on a bunch in the shop till you find something that works for you. Different shoes will stretch different amounts but generally expect them to loosen 0.5 of a size. If it's excruciating in the shop, it's probably too small.

You could try wearing them round the house (with plastic bags) and see if they start to give enough, but in my experience the VSR don't give much and retain their shape well.

They sound too small to me. Hope you get sorted.

PS It doesn't make sense to go down like a full size from the Arpias, which are a softer shoe with a sloppier heel, whereas you now have shoe known for having a snug heel which won't stretch as much.  Why downsize aggressively?

Post edited at 18:12

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