UKC

Southern Sandstone vs Font

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 yoshi.h 07 Aug 2018

How does the graded climbs of both compare to each other? Are they similar in feel in terms of rock feel and grade difficulty? Every time I climb on Southern Sandstone I get my arse kicked thoroughly, so wondering whether I should brace myself to get spanked at Font too.

 spidermonkey09 07 Aug 2018
In reply to yoshi.h:

Everyone gets spanked in Font. Its part of the fun.

 RockSteady 07 Aug 2018
In reply to yoshi.h:

Font is like a 'good' version of Southern Sandstone, where the rock formations are similar but the holds are not all slippery with sand.

I always struggle at both, but enjoy it a lot more in Font.

 slab_happy 07 Aug 2018
In reply to yoshi.h:

> How does the graded climbs of both compare to each other?

As a practical point, check the grading systems in the guidebooks you're using -- southern sandstone routes are often graded using British tech grades, which look the same as Font grades but aren't.

Also yes, what they said, you'll get spanked in Font, because everyone does. On the other hand, whatever level you're climbing at, you'll also be able to find beautiful delightful easy problems. Font has many facets

(And I forgot to say - have a great time!)

Post edited at 13:17
OP yoshi.h 07 Aug 2018
In reply to slab_happy:

Thanks. I know my grading systems yes...I just find it funny that my onsight level on Southern Sandstone is about two/three Font grades lower than on grit for example. I told myself that it was down to the softness and quality of the sandstone there, as opposed to the commonly touted 'high quality' sandstone in Font. I just wanted to manage my expectations, and what I tell my friends I plan to climb at Font :P

Post edited at 15:05
 Si dH 07 Aug 2018
In reply to yoshi.h:

On your first trip you might struggle with the style a little at first, but it's really very varied. In your grade range Font grades are not particularly hard or soft - little in it vs grit in my opinion.

 AMorris 08 Aug 2018
In reply to yoshi.h:

Not having climbed at all on SS, but in font an observation I made is that the lower the grade and more slabby the route is, the harder the grading will feel. That is why people come back from there laughing about how they got utterly spanked on font 5 slabs. But the inverse is also true, if you climb in the font 7B -7C range, you will find a lot of the steeper problems to be pretty fairly graded.

Removed User 08 Aug 2018
In reply to AMorris:

So what you seem to be saying is that  easy/slabby problems are generally misgraded in the U.K. whereas steeper ones around 7B/C are graded more accurately?

 

 

 

Post edited at 13:02
OP yoshi.h 08 Aug 2018
In reply to Removed UserArdverikie2:

He was referring to climbs in Fontainebleau specifically, but I wouldn't be afraid to say that I think SS climbs are generally undergraded in my opinion.

This may be due to a number of factors not limited to wear and breakage of rock, the nature of the soft rock and sand on the rock surface etc. Could the former reason make the harder climbs less worn due to less exposure to wear due to lower frequency of attempts? The latter definitely makes slab climbing more difficulty imo. 

It would be good to get opinions from somebody who has climbed extensively on SS and other locations/rock types through a wide grade range to make the comparison, but the above is my two cents.

Post edited at 13:26
Removed User 08 Aug 2018
In reply to yoshi.h:

If you don't use a cloth to slap loose sand from the holds and clean your feet thoroughly as well then things will feel very much harder. Also the quantity of chalk on Ss is making historically easy moves much harder. That apart I find the grades in the Ss bouldering guide to be in line with grades in Bleau although a lot "noisier" as is expected with such a small group contributing.

 AMorris 12 Aug 2018
In reply to Removed UserArdverikie2:

No, thats not what I am saying.

 Graham Ad 14 Aug 2018
In reply to yoshi.h:

Having climbed on SS for many years, and had some input into Climbers' Club the guide (and moderated the main SS crags for UK Climbing until it was taken out of my hands...) I'd suggest that the SS grades (UK Technical) are generally in line with other UK venues (I can't really comment above E3/E4...).

The grades on SS have evolved and have been adjusted up and down a bit as newer guides appear but not much changes really. The grades are probably the result of a few attempts and certainly, for more established routes, the result of a consensus but I can think of quite a few routes that would be tricky to justify for an on-sight ascent.

The UK tech grading has been in use on SS since the first guides appeared back in the 1920s but I suspect it was tempered by the Morins' experiences in Fontainebleau.

Isolated areas such as SS seem to develop a local calibration to the grading system and the fact that there are now so many makes reading across from one system to another almost impossible to be accurate or truly meaningful... And now the Rockfax guide to SS has introduced Sport grades - Why???

Cheers,

Graham.

1
 CurlyStevo 14 Aug 2018
In reply to Graham Ad:

I think the SS grades under UK 4c tend to go steadily out of whack as you go lower. I've only climbed to 6a but to that level they seem fairly inline with other areas (at 4c and above) and my best grades are pretty inline with other rocks I frequently climb at any given time.

Sport grades give more information than the hardest move and are a better system for top rope climbs than UK trad grades IMO.

Post edited at 17:32
Removed User 15 Aug 2018
In reply to Graham Ad:

In case it wasn't clear. I wasn't suggesting that there was any lack of consensus on route grades but on the Fontainebleau grades in the SS bouldering guide and BTW yes Sport grades are ridiculously poorly suited to SS routes.

 Graham Ad 15 Aug 2018
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Maybe I'm missing something but when applied to a toproped route I really don't see what additional information "Birchden Wall 6b" as opposed to "Birchden Wall 5B" is giving me. It's a number/letter combination, both of which follow the same basic progression.

6b "sounds" more impressive, of course.

I'm open to being enlightened... 

Cheers,

Graham.

Removed User 15 Aug 2018
In reply to Graham Ad:

Well it does give you extra info about how sustained the route is.

The thing is though that you already  have this information - it's sandstone just look up.

In the same way you could, if you wished,  give the U.K.  adjectival grade for each route in the guide ( which would give you information about the quality of gear and the seriousness as well as how sustained it is)   but there'd be no point as you already know all that when standing at the bottom , which is why it's traditionally been omitted.

In case anyone is wondering - There's no gear , it isn't sustained and you can have a good guess how many bones you'll break falling from the crux just by looking.

 

 tonanf 15 Aug 2018
In reply to Removed UserArdverikie2:

sport grade dosent tell you how sustained a route is. just how hard it is to get up. a long easy route with one hard move cold be 7a so could a 10 move bouldery route. you judge how sustained it is by the length vs the grade. so no info.

 Offwidth 16 Aug 2018
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Spot on my my experience. The sub 4c mess is because these grades came from Font and were equivalent at that time and too many guidebook editors since were reluctant to adjust to fit the times. I always found routes around 5c easy compared to grit.

UK tech grades are these days mostly used to work alongside adjectival grades (BMC grit guide easy bouldering grades being an exception: where stuff below 4c is consistent and logical) . Hence I agree that for topropes, or solos, sport grades tell you much more useful information and have the massive benefit of having way more notches once you reach UK tech grades above 6a (since we brits wrecked UK trad grades above UK tech 6a, due to parochial idiocy: UK tech 6c covers a large range of grades in every other system in the world).


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