UKC

/ BMC Open Forum

Andy Say - on 11 May 2018

Open Forum to discuss the two proposals to go to the BMC AGM: that will determine the governance structure of the BMC.

St. Thomas Centre, Manchester M12 6FZ - 10 mins from Manchester Piccadilly. 7.00 start on Tuesday evening 15th May.

Be there!

paul mitchell - on 11 May 2018
In reply to Andy Say:

For the last few years it seems as if the BMC has been governed by those who desire an increase in govt funding. Prove me wrong.

spenser - on 11 May 2018
In reply to paul mitchell:

Perhaps rather than posting a leading question on UKC you could engage with other members via the area meetings, Open Forum and the AGM?

Clearly yes, the BMC does seek to utilise Sport England money (I believe funded by the National Lottery?) to support some of its none core activities, these are of significant benefit to clubs (local, student and national) which still provide a significant route into climbing (particularly trad climbing). There is also significant benefit to the competitions side of the BMC which seems to have produced some pretty decent trad climbers and mountaineers from the youth competitions. I don't see any issue with the BMC seeking to obtain government funding in support of activities which are beneficial to UK based climbers and mountaineers.

If the BMC were seeking to get ever increasing amounts of SE money to line the pockets of the executive that would clearly be wrong, however they're not so it's not particularly relevant. 

Andy: I am not sure if I'll be able to make it as someone moved the OMC committee meeting to the 15th and there's some big stuff which needs discussing there, I will try and encourage some other people from the club to attend instead of myself.

Cheers

Spenser

subtle on 11 May 2018
In reply to Andy Say:

Will they be discussing a proposed name change to the BMC?

La benya - on 11 May 2018
In reply to Andy Say:

Will they be discussing the next discussion? 

Paz - on 11 May 2018
In reply to paul mitchell:

I don't think anyone governing any organisation desires a decrease in funding. 

It's really hard to get into the down sizing cost-cutting mindset as it is, unless bankruptcy is being faced, and even then a decrease in funding is not desirable.

r.a.a. Proof by intimidation, and use of personal anecdotal experiences as scientific facts.

Post edited at 15:20
Jim 1003 - on 11 May 2018
In reply to Paz:

How much does the BMC CEO get paid?

andyr - on 11 May 2018
In reply to paul mitchell:

> For the last few years it seems as if the BMC has been governed by those who desire an increase in govt funding. Prove me wrong.

For the last few years it seems as if the increase of govt funding has been used in a beneficial manner for the UK mountaineering community. Prove me wrong.

airborne - on 11 May 2018
In reply to Jim 1003:

Not enough, I'd say...

alx on 11 May 2018
In reply to andyr:

If the BMC receives public money then I’m sure they must be subject to freedom of information requests to disclose “those” emails sent by Bob et al that people keep insinuating about.

spenser - on 11 May 2018
In reply to alx:

The emails are being sent around the signatories of the motion with one or two members of NC CC'ed in I think, not around BMC staff etc so I am not sure if FoI would apply?

Post edited at 16:24
Paz - on 11 May 2018
In reply to Jim 1003:

No idea, but that job seems to get passed around quite frequently so probably not enough for anyone to want to do that job permanently.

Post edited at 16:52
Paz - on 11 May 2018
In reply to Jim 1003:

In 2006 the gross salary bill was just under 990k https://www.thebmc.co.uk/Handlers/DownloadHandler.ashx?id=1448

As of today the BMC has 31.9 FTE staff (34 people, 8 of whom on 0.8, 1 on 0.5) https://www.thebmc.co.uk/bmc-staff-list

So if they pay everyone equally, the CEO earns at least: 990/31.9 = 31k

If they pay everyone else NMW the CEO earns at most: 582k =990k-(31.9-30.9)*£7.83/h*37.5h/ww*45ww/y https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates

Andy Say - on 13 May 2018
In reply to paul mitchell:

> For the last few years it seems as if the BMC has been governed by those who desire an increase in govt funding. Prove me wrong.

For the last few [10] years the BMC has sought SE funding for specific projects. And its been pretty generous, largely through the quality of the bids.

Quite who 'governs' the BMC is moot, and a subtext to the AGM motions. Directors / Senior Staff / National Council / Menbers / an obscure illuminati sect in a cave in the Peak ?

I would say, though, that most people see that pot of gold shrinking and maybe disappearing.

Andy Say - on 13 May 2018
In reply to Paz:

> No idea, but that job seems to get passed around quite frequently

CEO? Roger Payne and then Dave Turnbull have held the post over the last 20 years at least!

Not exactly high turnover

Andy Say - on 13 May 2018
In reply to La benya:

> Will they be discussing the next discussion? 

Yeah. 'British Climbing' has a certain ring do you not think?

And we can then join British Cycling as a Tier 3 NGB and exemplars of clean, egalitarian, abuse-free, Member-led and non-contentious sporting excellence

Andy Say - on 13 May 2018
In reply to La benya:

> Will they be discussing the next discussion? 

No. As you well know before discussions about discussions can commence a working party needs to be set up to see if those discussions are approved by Sport England. Please be realistic.

Andy Say - on 13 May 2018
In reply to andyr:

> For the last few years it seems as if the increase of govt funding has been used in a beneficial manner for the UK mountaineering community. Prove me wrong.

Andy, like you I am a member of that community. I have also been involved in submitting bids to SE.

I know where some of the money has gone, and well spent it has been - but of 'benefit to the UK mountaineering community? I would guess that the vast majority of our peers have noticed zero effect.

And there does come a time when the stress of the bidding process and the need to project manager does become wearing.

For organisations to put themselves into a position where they cannot manage without that funding is folly.

T'other Andy

Andy Say - on 13 May 2018
In reply to Andy Say:

And whatever...if you live in the Peak, the NW or York's then just get there if you can.

You know what: it's the BMC members that should decide this! 

Paz - on 13 May 2018
In reply to Andy Say:

> CEO? ...

> Not exactly high turnover

I confused CEO with President.  Sorry.

Paz - on 13 May 2018
In reply to Andy Say:

> join British Cycling as a Tier 3 NGB and exemplars of clean, ...  sporting excellence

Oh interesting?  Are the BMC going to bring in testing for amphetamines, for example so the climbing community can give the rightful handful of clean ascentionists of Hubble their dues?  It'd be good to put some rumours to bed.

danm on 14 May 2018
In reply to Paz:

> Are the BMC going to bring in testing for amphetamines.

Yes. Anyone found to have taken performance enhancing drugs will have their UKC logbook stripped clean and get a 2 year ban from the forums.

ScottH - on 14 May 2018
In reply to Andy Say:

Are there any hints as to how those of us who have jobs / live some distance from Manchester can listen in / offer up feedback for this mid-week evening "Open" Forum?

UKB and BMC Shark - on 14 May 2018
In reply to ScottH:

It’s going to be livestreamed

toad - on 14 May 2018
In reply to UKB and BMC Shark:

Is there a link for the livestream thingy?

Paz - on 14 May 2018
In reply to danm:

Motion seconded.  How do we get there to be a vote on this at the AGM?

UKB and BMC Shark - on 14 May 2018
In reply to toad:

> Is there a link for the livestream thingy?

Hopefully publicised tomorrow, though maybe not. All part of the build up...

spenser - on 14 May 2018
In reply to UKB and BMC Shark:

I've unhelpfully been dictated to that I need to be at a committee meeting in Wirksworth tomorrow evening so will need to use the livestream. The future of my hair may depend on the number of irrational comments in this given what will come after!

UKB and BMC Shark - on 14 May 2018
In reply to spenser:

Now is not your time but it may come to pass that you too will be unable to resist the clarion call of the undead. Rejoice in your youth and may your hair grow wild and free in Wirksworth.

 

Jim 1003 - on 14 May 2018
In reply to Andy Say:

> Open Forum to discuss the two proposals to go to the BMC AGM: that will determine the governance structure of the BMC.

> St. Thomas Centre, Manchester M12 6FZ - 10 mins from Manchester Piccadilly. 7.00 start on Tuesday evening 15th May.

> Be there!

Who gives a fu=k, I'm in the Austrian Alpine Club, much better value for insurance etc....

spenser - on 15 May 2018
In reply to Jim 1003:

Does the AAC negotiate access arrangements for crags in England and Wales? The two organisations have completely different scopes of activity.

For Shark: my hair has been retreating since I turned 14, excessively long circular meetings seem not to help!

Offwidth - on 15 May 2018
In reply to all:

If anyone wants a chat, I'll be wearing a shock Orange T shirt with a Joshua Tree and a rather blunt US access message on the front.

Will Hunt - on 15 May 2018
In reply to Andy Say:

I won't be there because I have a life to lead. On the off chance that the room is full of a very small minority of very vocal, mostly retired BMC members, please can it be understood that the mood of the meeting is not necessarily representative of the mood of the membership (most of whom will be at work, caring for their children, doing the weekly shop, going climbing, or doing one of the million other things that they fill their time with).

 

In fact, if that statement could be read out on my behalf I would appreciate it (Offwidth, please could you do the honours). If that happens, please could you also add a loud "Get stuffed, you conspiracy-mongering old farts!"

Alex Messenger, BMC - on 15 May 2018

In reply to:

Hi everyone

OK, as of ten minutes ago, our livestream set up is up and working, so we'll be able to livecast it. This will be dependant on the wifi speeds in the building (the speed was OK when we last tested).

We'll definitely be streaming to BMC Facebook. And hope to stream to teamBMC YouTube and embed on our site and UKC too - if Wirecast stops giving port errors. 

We'll post links when we have them

Cheers

 

 

 

Will Hunt - on 15 May 2018
In reply to Alex Messenger, BMC:

Thanks Alex,

Will it be available to view afterwards as well?

 

And how did you get on with rigging up the grand finale in the ceiling? You know, when the dregs of a hundred thousand half-pints of Plas-y-Brenin bitter are dropped from the ceiling onto the gathered throng below?

Alex Messenger, BMC - on 15 May 2018
In reply to Will Hunt:

Yes, it'll either be in our Facebook or on our YouTube. Whether we use YouTube or Facebook depends on the settings of the venue's firewall. We'll post on all our social media as soon as we know.

Cheers

 

 

rztipping on 15 May 2018
In reply to Alex Messenger, BMC:

If its not on you tube would i need a facebook account to watch the stream?

Alex Messenger, BMC - on 15 May 2018
In reply to rztipping:

Maybe.

You can definitely watch it afterwards as we can embed it into our site. I'm not sure if we can embed a live video externally from Facebook when it's live. Anyone know?

We're hoping that YouTube works, as it's easier for everyone. 

 

Alex Messenger, BMC - on 15 May 2018
In reply to Alex Messenger, BMC:

The stream on YouTube looks like it's going to work. Here;s the URL:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am3Keh9plv4

cheers

 

Graeme Alderson on 15 May 2018
In reply to Paz:

The President has a 3 year term so yes that job gets passed around quite often