UKC

High Peak PSPO - no fires

Thread moved from Off Belay to Crag Access

It appears the High Peak Council has put a PSPO in place, which is intended to ban lighting fires and barbecues in their area with a few exceptions relating to campsites and farmers needing to burn stuff.  All good so far.

You can find a link to it here:

https://www.highpeak.gov.uk/PSPO

A more interesting part of it is that it also bans:

"Using any article or object which causes a naked flame and thereby poses a risk of fire without the prior written consent of the Borough Council"

This bans more than BBQs, and would ban the use of a Jetboil or similar for a quick brew (not overly likely to cause a fire, but it's possible so it appears to count) - but more significantly (to the wider population) it also appears to ban smoking unless you've got some sort of non-naked-flame lighter like an old style car one.

Thoughts?  I'm surprised it's got through with this extra bit.

Post edited at 09:56
In reply to Neil Williams:

Unless the police are prepared to back up enforcement PSPO's are of limited effectiveness since they then rely on trained local authority enforcement personnel. I don't know if any National Park staff  fall into this category  

 Jenny C 28 Apr 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

Plenty of accidental moorland fires have been attributed to discarded cigarettes (the main cause I suspect until disposables BBQs became the in thing), so kind of makes sense imo.

Bit tough on those who can't live without a fresh cup of tea, but The Peak isn't exactly the back of beyond so a worthwhile sacrifice imo.

Post edited at 10:20
In reply to Jenny C:

FWIW with regard to cups of tea I have recently found that flask tea is OK enough provided you make it strong and add the milk separately.  It's milk that seems to make a flask drink taste odd.

 Becky E 28 Apr 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

> FWIW with regard to cups of tea I have recently found that flask tea is OK enough provided you make it strong and add the milk separately.  It's milk that seems to make a flask drink taste odd.

I quite like flask tea, but I've now taken to heating the milk before adding it to the flask - it helps it stay hotter for longer.

In reply to Becky E:

Yeah, that'd also work though possibly still have the odd taste.  FWIW, a 330ml Klean Kanteen insulated bottle is ideal for carrying milk about.

I very much doubt anyone will be fined £1K for very quick use of a Jetboil to make a cup of tea, though, provided they don't set the grass on fire (if they do, then the point is proven that they shouldn't have done), and if asked to stop then they do stop and apologise.

Post edited at 11:44
 Ian Parsons 28 Apr 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

> It's milk that seems to make a flask drink taste odd.

Great! You've just snookered my new dietary tactic of switching to warm milk as my crag beverage of choice. Thanks a lot.

 Toccata 28 Apr 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

I suspect fewer than 1% of visitors will be aware of this. And I'd guess a decent proportion of those who are will choose to ignore it.

 Denning76 28 Apr 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

Good move, but without enforcement it will do little (the people who are lighting these fires wouldn't care even if they were aware). Need to stop the sale of the disposable barbecues in the first place.

 Marek 28 Apr 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

I can't help wondering how many of the lets-have-a-BBQ-on-the-moors crowd will...

(a) Even be aware of this;

(b) Think it applies to them;

(c) Care two hoots, either way;

(d) Get caught and fined.

I'm thinking very, very small numbers.

I suppose some bureaucrats will go home thinking they've done a useful job.

In reply to Ian Parsons:

> Great! You've just snookered my new dietary tactic of switching to warm milk as my crag beverage of choice. Thanks a lot.

If you actually like the smell/taste of warm milk it might not be a problem to you.  I personally find it repulsive.

In reply to Denning76:

> Good move, but without enforcement it will do little (the people who are lighting these fires wouldn't care even if they were aware). Need to stop the sale of the disposable barbecues in the first place.

Stopping someone in Manchester picking one up from their local Tesco to use in the Peak is not really in the Council's remit, though, and you can't blame them for wanting to do something.

 Ian Parsons 28 Apr 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

> If you actually like the smell/taste of warm milk it might not be a problem to you.  I personally find it repulsive.


You're still young; you'll get there!

In reply to Bulls Crack:

> Unless the police are prepared to back up enforcement PSPO's are of limited effectiveness since they then rely on trained local authority enforcement personnel. I don't know if any National Park staff  fall into this category  

No doubt Derbyshire police will send up drones to hunt down jetboil owners while totally ignoring disposable BBQs. They are tirelessly dedicated to achieving own-goals in community policing and unlikely to miss this opportunity like this

In reply to Neil Williams:

My reading of that makes it an offence to possess a BBQ within a public space of the PDNP or council area. So you can't buy a regular BBQ and get it from the shop to home?

Whilst I agree with the intentions I wish some of these rushed PSPO were better thought out.

In reply to Neil Williams:

A ban, should be an absolute ban, there shouldn't be any exception for farmers  either. 

 cragtyke 28 Apr 2021
In reply to CantClimbTom:

They might get a good talking to though:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-56889623

In reply to summo:

> A ban, should be an absolute ban, there shouldn't be any exception for farmers  either.

Why?  They have to work their land, whereas you don't have to have a BBQ.

In reply to Neil Williams:

> Why?  They have to work their land, whereas you don't have to have a BBQ.

There is no farm work that requires burning. It's lazy old school practices, like burning stubble etc.. which should be consigned to history. There's nothing that can't be ploughed in, composted or left to rot naturally. 

Edit. An exception might be anyone burning Japanese knotweed in a controlled environment. 

Post edited at 17:20
 MNA123 28 Apr 2021
In reply to Bulls Crack:

I'm assuming that due to the PSPO being authorised and the fact that Police Neighbourhood Teams work very closely with the council, regarding their priorities, then I believe this will get policed to a certain degree.

Usually hotspot areas will be targeted, such as where people are regularly going with disposable bbqs and leaving a mess etc. Due to sheer lack of manpower I can't forsee local bobbies patrolling the bottom of stanage and swiping cigarettes out of people's mouths.

In reply to MNA123:

Stanage isn't in the High Peak Council area anyway, it's in the Derbyshire Dales District Council area.

Still don't use disposable BBQs there, though

 MNA123 28 Apr 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

> Stanage isn't in the High Peak Council area anyway, it's in the Derbyshire Dales District Council area.

> Still don't use disposable BBQs there, though

I stand corrected


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