UKC

Quick question for anyone that has climbed at Pinfold. Can you access the left side of the crag directly for kinberg etc or do you have to walk up the slope towards the Solo in Soho area then double back along the base of the crag?

In reply to Garston:

You can do either - it's just very steep going direct.

In reply to Garston:

yea best just heading up normal path, pretty steep to go direct

In reply to Garston:

Thanks guys, cracking day, led ecv and kinberg but walk off when slippy needs rope! Came down scree in middle at the end which was fun too.

In reply to Garston:

Not a good idea as it upsets the residents below.

In reply to Garston:
Not sure why anyone should dislike advice on maintaining crag access. The screes are a sensitive plant habitat and complaints from residents could easily lead to climbing bans. The guide is clear on approaches if you could be bothered to read!

In reply to jim jones:
"The guide is clear on approaches if you could be bothered to read!"

To be fair the guidebook I have (Clwyd Limestone 2015), whilst clear about the recommended approach, gives no indication that this approach is mandatory to retain access or that it is recommended to keep residents happy or to protect plants. It reads simply as a suggestion about the most convenient way. Also there is a public right of way running horizontally along the hillside below the crag and between the crag and any residential properties or enclosed land. It is hard to envisage that residents would have any legitimate interest in preventing people taking any line they wished between the path and the crag. Plant protection is a legitimate reason for controlling approach routes but there is nothing to draw this to anyone's attention.

In reply to harold walmsley:

The paths are clearly marked in the crag approach instructions. Whilst it doesn't mention direct descent down the screes I'd have thought (obviously incorrectly!) that common sense would prevail. The screes are a sensitive habitat and I can vouch from experience the locals get pretty irate about scree movement caused by climbers and walkers.

In reply to jim jones:

The guide mentions preservation of scree slopes in the Craig Arthur access section.

Believe it or not limestone scree is actually quite rare in this country and the scree slopes of the Eglwyseg valley are an important wildlife habitat. Further all the crags in the valley are part of the Clywdian SSSI.

I kindly request that all climbers and walkers please adhere to the access and approach routes described in the guide.

Lee

In reply to xyz:

The Craig Arthur section may not be consulted by people visiting Pinfold! The Guides and BMC RAD all mention scree environments being important but don't give particularly clear instructions about where it is acceptable to go. E.g the rad says something like stick to recognised paths. This clearly does not mean rights of way marked on the OS map or there would be no crag access at all so it must mean stick to paths that are clear on the ground. It doesn't say where these are and there is almost a continuum of markings from sheep tracks to bridleways so it is not obvious where to draw the line. The posts here suggest there is only one acceptable recognised approach line. That does not come across clearly for Pinfold in either the guides or the BMC RAD. Many (most?) scree slopes have something that could look like a path to the inexpert eye. I don't think it is common sense to everyone where it is sensible to go. I am just suggesting that people advocating one restricted access route might get a better response if they stuck to being informative and were a little less judgemental.

In reply to harold walmsley:

With all due respect Harold, the approach routes to all of the crags published in the guide are VERY CLEAR

I can see no reason or logic for you to use words like "judgemental" in your previous post as a response to my post simply requesting "that all climbers and walkers please adhere to the access and approach routes described in the guide"

In reply to xyz:

I agree Lee, my original comment was intended as a nudge not to use the screes as a descent. The guide approaches are perfectly clear. No doubt people new to the area may come down them in error. If they became used as a regular standard descent access problems would soon arise. Article 7 of the UIAA Mountain Ethic Declaration is pretty clear and whilst slanted more towards big hills is still relevant;
https://theuiaa.org/declarations/mountain-ethic-declaration/

In reply to xyz:
Sorry, I was referring to more than one post there. Didn't mean you. I think it is obvious in my posts that I accept that the guidebook approach descriptions are clear. What I think is not clear is that these are the only acceptable approaches.

My "judgemental" comment was aimed at Jim's "if you could be bothered to read!" which I thought was not called for even though I agree it is good to highlight that visitors should stick to the described routes.

In reply to harold walmsley:
I don't think it's overly judgemental or critical to point out "Came down scree in middle at the end which was fun too" is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

In reply to jim jones:

Yes I agree with that