UKC

Survey on Hen Harrier Deaths

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 Offwidth 19 Mar 2019

Some useful information from a recent survey, showing 7 in 10 hen harriers are illegally killed, with grouse moors being a particular problem hot-spot.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/19/seven-in-10-hen-harrier...

The general subject of wildlife crime is part of a talk at the BMC Peak Area meeting in Grindleford tomorrow evening.

http://community.thebmc.co.uk/Event.aspx?id=4048

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 toad 19 Mar 2019
In reply to Offwidth:

There's been an interesting side story here. The paper was presented at a conference some months ago but couldn't be reported until publication. 

Fine if its some abstract scientific point, less so if its evidence of illegal activity. Anyway, loads more on Mark Avery, RSPB, and raptor persecution blogs.

A final thought, if you see anything you aren't happy about on grouse moors, call the police AND the RSPB. Theres been what is best described as dodgy behaviour in the Northern Peak District recently and the police haven't been as helpful as you might hope- in particular it would be good to know the police opinion on this 

https://www.wildsheffield.com/birdwatchers-confronted-by-masked-men/

Post edited at 16:59
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 danm 19 Mar 2019
In reply to toad:

If you attend the BMC Peak Area meeting tomorrow night at the Maynard, Grindleford, you can ask them - Wildlife Crime Officers will be present to field questions.

 toad 19 Mar 2019
In reply to danm:

Was considering It but I’ve another meeting then

 danm 19 Mar 2019
In reply to toad:

I'm sure you could proxy any questions to the Chair, Rob Greenwood, and Offwidth will no doubt be there.

 deepsoup 20 Mar 2019
In reply to toad:

"The Trust understands from George that a Sergeant has since apologised on behalf of South Yorkshire Police for how they treated George and his girlfriend, stating that the officers involved were not trained wildlife crime officers and were out of their depth in dealing with something of this nature."

Ah, so without specific training in "wildlife crime", you wouldn't expect an ordinary copper to realise that it's not ok for masked men to randomly intimidate and detain members of the public? 

I hope the gamekeepers' behaviour here will be taken into account when their shotgun licences are up for renewal.

If anyone would be so kind as to summarise it here I'd be interested to hear what the 'Wildlife Crime Officers' have to say too, though I'm sure they'll decline to comment on the above.  I won't be at the meeting unfortunately, as per, Wednesday nights are no good for me.

 druridge 20 Mar 2019
In reply to Offwidth:

I think a letter to the Police Commissioner asking for details of how the renewal of shotgun licences for these individuals will consider these matters might be a good move?

Not relevant here, but I once found a couple of armed 'poachers', rather than reporting them as 'poachers', going down the route of civil law / trespass; use the term 'armed trespass' and you get a whole different level of response.

How far are we from driven grouse shooting being viewed as a criminal activity?

 Tom Valentine 20 Mar 2019
In reply to deepsoup:

Glad to see a positive comment about the Wentworth Estate. It was their keeper who gave me a lift up to a job and told me the best patch of moor for spotting a hen harrier , and before coffee break I'd seen one.

OP Offwidth 21 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Valentine:

Still a bit lost for words after the BMC Peak Area meeting last night. I was pretty aware of the individual incidents and very bad behaviour of some estates but the sheer scale of raptor persecution and the extent of collusion of the grouse moors, especially those in the NE peak, was mind blowing. We clearly need legislation to deal with this with liabilities on landowners (currently, at best, their footsoldiers gamekeepers sometimes get prosecuted). 

In immediate practical terms if you see a likely wildlife crime in progress dial 999. If you see traps that may be illegal (especially isolated crow traps) contact the RSPB as they can set up surveillance that the police might not be able to (due to RIPA). Do not damage snares (as you will be liable for criminal damage).

Thanks again for Mark (RSPB) and Emerson (Derbyshire Police wildlife crime)  for the presentation.

https://community.rspb.org.uk/ourwork/b/investigations/posts/raptor-persecu...

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/crag_access/bmc_peak_area_meeting+raptor_...

http://community.thebmc.co.uk/Event.aspx?id=4048

Post edited at 10:35
 toad 21 Mar 2019
In reply to Offwidth:

Shocking, isn't  it? Considering how small (relatively) the area is, the scale of the problem in the NE peak is dreadful. Its also sad that the debate in parliament following the petition was so poorly attended.

Was there any discussion of the wyming brook / SWT Reserve incident?

OP Offwidth 21 Mar 2019
In reply to toad:

Briefly.... I talked about it to the RSPB guy as well... there is nothing really to add to what's been said already. In the context of a presentation that indicated pretty much all raptors have been eliminated from the NE peak grouse moors, mostly in the recent years since foot and mouth, and how that was done, its understandably just one shock in many.

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pasbury 21 Mar 2019
In reply to Offwidth:

> In immediate practical terms if you see a likely wildlife crime in progress dial 999. If you see traps that may be illegal (especially isolated crow traps) contact the RSPB as they can set up surveillance that the police might not be able to (due to RIPA). Do not damage snares (as you will be liable for criminal damage).

Crow traps like these?

http://www.gamerearingsheds.co.uk/traps/

Or are there other types and are they all legal?

As to snares, I always photograph then remove and destroy any snares I find just because i don't want an animal to die agonizingly in it (or gnaw their own leg off for instance).

I've got away with it so far.

 Kim 21 Mar 2019
In reply to Offwidth:

Here's a link to the latest RSPB blog and video Mark referred to last night.

https://community.rspb.org.uk/ourwork/b/investigations/posts/raptors-killer...

 Tom Valentine 21 Mar 2019
In reply to Kim:

How about this as a way of making life more difficult for these people : make the killing of all corvids an offence with punishments as severe as those for raptors. The RSPB could make a start by desisting in the practice on their own reserves.

Post edited at 14:17
 ams 21 Mar 2019
In reply to Offwidth:

Same problem in our area - the police are onto it with Operation Owl

https://northyorkshire.police.uk/what-we-do/tackling-crime/rural-cross-bord...

 Kim 21 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Valentine:

> How about this as a way of making life more difficult for these people : make the killing of all corvids an offence with punishments as severe as those for raptors.

Not quite, but not far off:

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2019/03/15/wild-justice-lau...

OP Offwidth 21 Mar 2019
In reply to pasbury:

Yes those. They are legal for crows but are being deliberately misused to snare raptors. In the areas of concern near grouse moors most will probably being used in this way so report any you see to the RSPB.

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OP Offwidth 25 Mar 2019
In reply to Offwidth:

Any hint on why the dislikes were made on my last post? The advice came from the RSPB guy and the Derbyshire police officer.

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 deepsoup 25 Mar 2019
In reply to Offwidth:

Great idea Offwidth, let's derail this important thread and undermine your own excellent work above with yet *another* pointless whinge about the 'dislike' button.

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 Tom Valentine 25 Mar 2019
In reply to deepsoup:

Far from pointless

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OP Offwidth 25 Mar 2019
In reply to deepsoup:

Maybe you need to look inwards about such ideas. I simply want to know what the issue is here. It may be a misunderstanding or someone might think the advice is wrong. The RSBP can check out the traps (and, for once, might decide they are being used legitimately) but once the police are involved no surveillance is possible without RIPA.

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 Ian Broome 26 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Valentine:

Is this the Wentworth estate near Rotherham?

I would love to see a Hen Harrier, I understand there are some on Pendle hill, but don't have any knowledge of seeing them around the Peak District or Yorkshire.

 Dave Garnett 26 Mar 2019
In reply to Ian Broome:

I saw one the weekend before last, at Wicken Fen not far from Cambridge.

 toad 26 Mar 2019
In reply to Ian Broome:

Ive seen a couple in the peak recently, but i fear at least one of them is now an unexplained loss over a grouse moor 😟

Post edited at 18:36
 Tom Valentine 26 Mar 2019
In reply to Ian Broome:

Same estate but they own a large stretch of moor west of the Strines road and this is where I was working.

Also had several sightings while working at Midhopestones (different estate and I didn't have much to do with the keepers there).  

 Ian Broome 31 Mar 2019

thanks all for the information, will have to keep my eyes open and have a look out in that area


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