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 aln 14 Jun 2024

I was never a big Santana fan, but this album was in the background a lot in my hazy smoky days. I've been listening to it a lot over the last week, and it's still great, without the herbal infusions! 

 Tom Valentine 14 Jun 2024
In reply to aln:

Has it got the same tracks as Caravanserai?         

3
In reply to aln:

My favourite one of theirs. They didn't do anything else quite like it.

In reply to aln:

Probably my favourite Santana album.

1
 storm-petrel 14 Jun 2024
In reply to aln:

It was always "Abraxas" for me, mainly because of "Oye Como Va" and "Samba Pa Ti".

I saw them live once in the 1980s at the Hammersmith Odeon. Their popularity was declining somewhat at the time and they had become a bit too disco-y. It was still a good show though with them playing a three hour set. My friend, a budding guitarist, insisted we hang about near the stage door afterwards and Carlos himself duly appeared and chatted to everybody.

Another reminder that selling all my vinyl records when I moved house thirty years ago was a poor decision. I haven't replaced most of them (Santana included) and I miss the little ritual involved in playing vinyl records.

No herbal infusions involved though.

 Doug 14 Jun 2024
In reply to storm-petrel:

Think Abraxas is also my favourite although at times it would be Santana 3 or Moonflower.

Several years ago I saw Tito Puente play in St Denis in the Paris suburbs & was surprised when he introduced 'Oye como va' as one his songs - up until then I'd never realised that Santana didn't write it. But I guess they did quite a few cover versions, eg Black magic woman & She's not there.

 felt 14 Jun 2024
In reply to storm-petrel:

> I saw them live once in the 1980s at the Hammersmith Odeon. 

I saw them supporting Dylan at St James's Park in 84. Dylan was touring with a heavy metal guitarist doing absurd axeman-y solos on all his songs, madness, when all you wanted was Robbie R or J. J. Cale smooth stuff, so Santana and co. blew them off stage, albeit they came on before Dylan. Time was flowing irregularly in any case, courtesy of a microdot or two.

> It was always "Abraxas" for me

I loved the album cover of that one, and it led me to start a small Mati Klarwein collection, bought from the Card Bar in the Handyside Arcade, Newcastle. The other great Santana cover was Moonflower, perhaps my earliest prompt to go high above the clouds among snowy mountains.

Post edited at 15:03
 felt 14 Jun 2024
In reply to aln:

I wonder if Santana has got the most distinctive tone in all of rack. You just need to hear a single note to tell it's him. Could certainly make a case. Brian May? Allan Holdsworth? The Edge?!

 Tom Valentine 14 Jun 2024
In reply to felt:

Maybe not just a matter of tone, but time and again Brian May will concede what a massive influence Rory Gallagher was on his developing style. Good documentary on Rory on BBC i player at the moment. 

 Andy Clarke 14 Jun 2024
In reply to felt:

I think Mark Knopfler belongs in the list. Probably also the recently deceased Dicky Betts. Jeff Beck was a master of tone of course, but perhaps having such range means he's not always instantly recognisable. My own favourite would be Jerry Garcia - Bruce Hornsby, who played with the Dead on occasion, said JG had the most beautiful tone he'd ever heard. Garcia and Santana played together a number of times, particularly in the early years in San Francisco.

ETA: Obviously, to fully appreciate Garcia heading to the outer reaches of the universe, you want something a little stronger than a herbal infusion.

Post edited at 21:25
 felt 14 Jun 2024
In reply to Andy Clarke:

I love the Garcia tone when he puts it through the bubble pedal, whatever that is, as on Shakedown Street.

 Andy Clarke 14 Jun 2024
In reply to felt:

I assume that's his envelope filter. Later in his career Jerry experimented with a MIDI guitar, making it sound on occasion like a flute, trumpet etc. This divides Deadhead opinion. Personally I really like it, but some purists don't.

Post edited at 22:25
 freeflyer 14 Jun 2024
In reply to aln:

Definitely Abraxas, but also Caravanserai, and a number of other albums.

The most amazing thing about Santana is how he remains relevant over multiple decades; there are very few artists that can do that, as most just rely on repeating their mega-hits .

The best example was Moonflower. He'd just been through the Buddhist experience (Love Devotion etc), whatever, and then Moonflower pops up, omg.

 kevin stephens 15 Jun 2024
In reply to felt:

> I wonder if Santana has got the most distinctive tone in all of rack. You just need to hear a single note to tell it's him. Could certainly make a case. Brian May? Allan Holdsworth? The Edge?!

Chris Spedding’s Guitar Jamboree was an impressive imitation of many guitar styles

https://youtu.be/M0lcdXJ4wG8?si=P2kC4uZ3POZgIkir

 felt 15 Jun 2024
In reply to kevin stephens:

Not heard that before, was hilarious at the end, to toss off Kossoff with just the one note. His Hendrix was a bit weedy. For me, Randy California does the best Jimi:  youtube.com/watch?v=JLJ7NKNMsfo&

 Lankyman 15 Jun 2024
In reply to felt:

> For me, Randy California does the best Jimi:  youtube.com/watch?v=JLJ7NKNMsfo&

For my own part the best ever version of All Along the Watchtower has to be Frank Marino

youtube.com/watch?v=PtP3w1JQoEw&  A harder, rockier version than Hendrix's. As for guitarists with recognisable and distinctive tones my top medallists would have to include Alex Lifeson, Eddie Van Halen and Huw Lloyd Langton and probably many more.

 Andy Clarke 15 Jun 2024
In reply to felt:

I love the way SRV took on the Hendrix legacy. And he had the talent to bring something new even when covering the absolute classics like Little Wing and Voodoo Child:

https://youtu.be/cFwTbsKkqxE?si=7N6FSyRTz4do_yWs

 Bob Kemp 15 Jun 2024
In reply to aln:

> I was never a big Santana fan, but this album was in the background a lot in my hazy smoky days. I've been listening to it a lot over the last week, and it's still great, without the herbal infusions! 

If you like this you’ll like Pharoah Sanders’ ‘Thembi’, which is clearly an influence:

https://youtu.be/T4nAGtdkU88?feature=shared

 veteye 15 Jun 2024
In reply to felt:

I agree with many comments, and have recently bought a 2nd hand LP of Abraxas, having that no CD before.

I see your brief mention of Paul Kossoff, but I love his tone on some of the Free tracks, and from other spin-off situations.

Having seen Eric Clapton in Birmingham lately, I would say that he still has good technique and tone, and that it was a really good (better than anticipated) excellent concert.

 Andy Clarke 15 Jun 2024
In reply to Bob Kemp:

> If you like this you’ll like Pharoah Sanders’ ‘Thembi’, which is clearly an influence:

A classic. I'm a sucker for spiritual jazz. 

 felt 15 Jun 2024
In reply to veteye:

Re Clapton, I loved his so called "woman tone" in Cream, maybe even back to the Bambi album, that nice, broad, muffled tone, but after that not so much when he became your standard bluesman/balladeer. Rory Gallagher I find wildly overrated, very average technically and melodically, although he sweated impressively. Beck of course was a genius but he had so many tones, as noted, as did Page, Garcia and many others. Eddie was amazing, his attack and fingering so clear and well-defined, but like Beethoven and Hendrix, you can't help not liking him a bit because of what he dragged in in his wake. And his palette was so varied, like Hendrix, that you can't really speak about the Van Halen tone. Santana, however, was quite something, as, like Jaco, his tone has always been remarkably consistent and instantly identifiable. Call that boring by all means, but my fiver stays stuck on him.

 Bob Kemp 15 Jun 2024
In reply to Andy Clarke:

> A classic. I'm a sucker for spiritual jazz

I didn’t realise it was a sub-genre until the last few years. Came to it via reading about Afro-futurist science fiction and I’m really enjoying what I’m finding. 

 Andy Clarke 15 Jun 2024
In reply to Bob Kemp:

> I didn’t realise it was a sub-genre until the last few years. Came to it via reading about Afro-futurist science fiction and I’m really enjoying what I’m finding. 

Yes, there's loads to enjoy. Modal & spiritual jazz is some of my favourite listening. I love extended improvisation - hence my Deadheadonism. I was listening to Albert Ayler at the Village Vanguard only yesterday  - but my wife insists I turn the volume right down for him! I presume you've checked out Kamasi Washington as a contemporary exponent. Generally a fair bit simpler than some of the 60s/70s stuff, but worth a listen I reckon.

In reply to veteye:

love it or hate it, Dimebag’s tone is unmistakeable, same for Tony Iommi and Ritchie Blackmore. At the other end of the spectrum, Wes Montgomery, Django and Joe Pass. 

 felt 15 Jun 2024
In reply to felt:

Ahem, Bambi > Beano

 kevin stephens 15 Jun 2024
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

For unique guitar styles Dick Dale has to be up there

 philipivan 15 Jun 2024
In reply to Andy Clarke:

Eric Gayles is the reincarnation of hendrix/srv when he is in flow. 

In reply to kevin stephens:

> For unique guitar styles Dick Dale has to be up there

yes definitely, and if we’re heading down the surf/psichobilly route then Poison Ivy of The Cramps and The Reverend Horton Heat are both highly identifiable

That being said, most of the great guitarists have a unique sound, Jeff beck, Jimmy Page, Pat Metheney, Eric Johnson etc etc etc

 abcdefg 15 Jun 2024
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

> That being said, most of the great guitarists have a unique sound, Jeff beck, Jimmy Page, Pat Metheney, Eric Johnson etc etc etc

I'm going to chuck in Bill Kirchen and Redd Volkaert here - both are Titans of the Telecaster, and have an immediately recognizable tone.

If you'd like to see a fantastic pastiche-of/homage-to of styles, go looking for YouTube recordings of  'Hot Rod Lincoln.'

As for Redd - just a fantastic player - how the hell does he manage it with those sausage fingers?! But, somehow, he does.

Post edited at 19:17
In reply to abcdefg:

The Telecaster is very close to my heart, unlike the wallpaper in a room which needs redecorating….


 abcdefg 15 Jun 2024
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

Who gives a shit about the wallpaper! Just play those instruments!

 Tom Valentine 15 Jun 2024
In reply to veteye:

I see Eric has changed his politics since 1976  with regard to "c**ns" and "w*gs". ( And arabs and Jamaicans)

OP aln 15 Jun 2024
In reply to Tom Valentine:

It's a remix 😊

 veteye 16 Jun 2024
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

Oh yes, I love some of the things which Pat Metheney does.

As regards Django Rheinhardt, (and Stephane Grapelli) you should see the Tim Kliphuis trio. The latter plays pretty much like Stephane, and his trio friend, Nigel Clark is Django. I saw them in a lovely church in Houghton on the hill, near Leicester recently.  They were brilliant. 

 Tom Valentine 16 Jun 2024
In reply to veteye:

For modern gypsy jazz one of the best is Stochelo Rosenberg whom I have mentioned on these pages before.

 CantClimbTom 16 Jun 2024
In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

Oddly.. I did like the herbal and did like Santana but I brought the album, years ago (gate-leg vinyl) at a record fair but was disappointed with it. Thought it was too self indulgent and was overrated. I was a very self indulgent and self overrating student at the time so it may have been me not the album. Each to their own

Post edited at 16:46
In reply to CantClimbTom:

When I was digging Caravanserai, I was a big time dopehead, circa early 90s.

I haven't heard it in years but I think I would still really enjoy it.

Abraxas is, of course, excellent too, but my 2nd favourite Santana album is, possibly, Borboletta.

1
 veteye 17 Jun 2024
In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

Hi Nick,

I hadn't properly noticed that you were a respondent on this thread. I hope that you are well.

I haven't seen you in ages: But maybe next weekend, as there is a celebration at the hut for Peterborough Mountaineering Club's 70th anniversary. I'm hopefully going up on Saturday night (I'm working in the morning). Maybe we could reminisce about guitar heros?

Sorry Aln for slightly hacking the thread.

Rob

Post edited at 07:55
OP aln 17 Jun 2024
In reply to veteye:

> Sorry Aln for slightly hacking the thread.>

Apart from calling me Aln instead of aln, it's not a problem 😁

 IM 17 Jun 2024
In reply to Tom Valentine:

Yes, I thought the documentary about Rory was great. Such a brilliant guitarist and performer, and so criminally underrated. Although not by the likes of Brian May and Johhny Marr, or indeed by Ritchie Blackmore, Slash, Joe Bonamassa, Peter Frampton or Jazz fusion great Larry Coryell who had this to say about Rory: “There’s blues players, you know some guys who play some blues licks but (Rory) was like improvising with that scale. He was improvising on the quarter tones, improvising on the feedback, improvising on the vibrato. If you close your eyes and take out the rhythm section and hear him playing it’s right up there with avant-garde jazz music. I see a strong similarity between the approach to improvising over the blues between Rory and Jimi Hendrix. They were both virtuosos who were able to manipulate even the minutest aspect of the blues and do things that had never been played before.” I guess if you know you know.

Oh and I love Caravanserai, brilliant album. Also like Welcome with John McLaughlin.

In reply to IM:

Rory, Thin Lizzy and Horslips was pretty well compulsory at a predominantly Irish school in the ‘70s. I was lucky to see them all, and Rory was spectacular. I still listen to Irish Tour and Live in Europe regularly now.

I checked my Apple Music stats, and was surprised that I hadn’t listened to any Hendrix or SRV in more than 5 years. The stats are very revealing. Jan Hammer and Jeff Beck yes, Jan Hammer and John McLaughlin no.

Megadeth and Slayer yes, Metallica and Anthrax no.

Its a revelation….

 Tringa 05 Jul 2024
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

I've been a great fan of Santana from about 1969. Abraxas is great as is Supernatural from 30 years later.

My daughter, who was born in 1985, says she thinks Carlos Santana just flows into his guitar.

Dave 

OP aln 05 Jul 2024
In reply to Tringa:

> I've been a great fan of Santana from about 1969. My daughter, who was born in 1985, says she thinks Carlos Santana just flows into his guitar.

I didn't think this thread was still alive! Do you realise that thinking your daughter's pov is a young one, just shows your age? 😉

 Tringa 06 Jul 2024
In reply to aln:

> I didn't think this thread was still alive! Do you realise that thinking your daughter's pov is a young one, just shows your age? 😉

Of course. I am a fully paid up old fart.😉

Dave


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