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European travel restrictions after 2020

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 old skool 21 May 2020

I guess many climbers won't be aware of the imminent restrictions to visa-free travel within the EU, so I thought I'd flag it up and ask for your help. From 2021 travelling to the EU will be difficult for those who travel extensively within Europe. Unless agreed otherwise, after the end of the year we will be limited to trips of a maximum of 90 days' duration. This is obviously of little concern to anyone who just fancies a couple of weeks away but it will spell the end of extended road trips or extended stays with family or friends who happen to live in the EU.
Current U.K. legislation allows for citizens of some countries to visit the U.K. for up to 6 months without a visa. The Government immigration paper published earlier this year outlined how that provision would be extended to countries in the E.U. & EEA. If the E.U. and U.K. are to have a reciprocal agreement then we need the U.K. government to actively press for this provision in the new relationship with the EU.
The next round of talks are in June. Now is the time to contact your MP if you want to keep your right to travel in the EU for more than 90 days.

All details can be found on the website :
www.180daysvisafree.org

The campaign was initially launched to address the concerns of second home owners in France, and this remains its primary focus, but the restrictions apply equally to UK climbers.

Post edited at 17:27
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 old skool 22 May 2020

Update:

To date, more than 25% of MPs have received letters about this issue. 100% would be better!

Ministers, including the Prime Minister, now know about the campaign. Please write to your MP using the resources available at www.180daysvisa-free.org

Thanks

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 racodemisa 22 May 2020
In reply to old skool:

I don't think the EU will change.The uk is a third country now like the US.The schengenvisa website will outline any further developments..But as it stands yeh 90 days max in every 180 days.Sad thing is between now and full brexit day on febuary 1st you do have the extra hurdle of the covid19 restrictions on travel as well.This might rumble on into late summer possibly later ? Our status is 3rd country and we are looked at with deep concern  in relation to our governments mismanagement of  health security within the Uk by the EU at this moment.

Post edited at 11:25
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 wbo2 22 May 2020
In reply to old skool: 

C'est la vie. It's what you as a country voted for.  

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 Tom V 22 May 2020
In reply to wbo2:

As a country it will only affect a minority of people, especially working people, so I wouldn't expect too much consternation about it.

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 Red Rover 22 May 2020
In reply to Tom V:

Agreed, how many people have the luxury of 90 day holidays, or being able to work remotely in another country for more than 90  days? If you are one of the very lucky ones it would be a shame to lost the chance to do it but it won't be anyone's priority to sort it out.

Post edited at 12:44
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 fred99 22 May 2020
In reply to Red Rover:

> Agreed, how many people have the luxury of 90 day holidays, or being able to work remotely in another country for more than 90  days? If you are one of the very lucky ones it would be a shame to lost the chance to do it but it won't be anyone's priority to sort it out.


Any hindrance in movement will sure as hell affect our Installation/Service Engineers and Salesmen.

Extend this across any company that sells (or indeed delivers for others) to Europe and you have a recipe for trouble trying to return to prosperity.

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 Red Rover 22 May 2020
In reply to fred99:

OK fair enough I can see it being a problem for people who are on 90 + day sales/installation trips in the EU. 

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 wbo2 22 May 2020
In reply to fred99:

1. 90 day trips?

2. As above, you voted for this in 2016

3. Britains future trade will increasingly be outside Europe in theory.

Post edited at 13:17
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 fred99 22 May 2020
In reply to wbo2:

> 1. 90 day trips?

> 2. As above, you voted for this in 2016

> 3. Britains future trade will increasingly be outside Europe in theory.


90 days in 180 - some of our Salesmen and Senior Service Engineers live out of their suitcases. Difficult not being able to close a deal or finish getting a machine working if you have to return home in a hurry.

I didn't vote for this - how dare you even attempt to suggest such a thing. I won't say what I think of you making such a suggestion as the only words I could use to properly describe you would have four letters.

My company is part of an International Company - we are the British/European location. We have Head Office (and manufacturing location) in New Jersey USA, plus manufacturing locations in Brazil, Mexico, Australia, Japan, South Korea, India, China, South Africa and Turkey. Plus smaller scale factories doing maintenance in Spain and Germany for Iberia/Northern Europe respectively for us in GB.

We CANNOT export to Asia, North or South America, Australasia or Africa because those areas are already "taken" - we have the "cartel" on Europe. If we can't sell to Europe then we either go under are at least contract dramatically.

There are many other companies which are in the same situation. If you sell a lot to (for example) India, with all the respective import/export tariffs, local regulations, let alone transport costs, then it is good economic practice to set up a factory there. Many companies have done this. For these companies to suddenly have most of their Customer Base - namely the EU - potentially removed at a stroke, and by a Prime Minister who is recorded as saying "**** industry" is disgusting.

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 wbo2 22 May 2020
In reply to Fred:  As a country you did vote for this although it's going to sting at a personal level.  I guess you've also figured out that travel insurance is going to get a fair hike as well for europe as you're not going to be falling under any pan european health care agreements and will instead have to fork up money.  (Also is going to apply to people using Austrian Alpine Club insurance as well I imagine as your costs to service are going to go through the roof).

I suggest you talk to your hopefully conservative MP as this door is going to shut in a few weeks.  I'm in Europe and the view here is that you left.

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 steve taylor 22 May 2020
In reply to wbo2:

No need to come over as a knob about the situation. The majority (it seems) of UKC members voted remain.

Yes, the UK voted to leave, but that still leaves millions of brits in a pi$$ed off state, and who have since been signing endless petitions to try to end this folly. It's all too late now - with their majority of 80 seats there may as well not be an opposition and writing to your tory MP is unlikely to have little effect. This is especially true given what Boris did to those MPs who previously dared to disagree with him.

The 90-day limit in 180 will be here to stay, unless you can get residency on an EU country (which I'll be doing).

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 fred99 22 May 2020
In reply to wbo2:

So you're in Norway. Maybe you should look at the incredibly small "majority" in this country (UK) that did vote for Leave, and take note of the number of people who didn't vote (bastards) which will then show you that the people who voted Leave were in fact a distinct MINORITY.

The fact that  simple majority of those who voted was regarded as acceptable just indicates how crassly stupid those who prepared the vote were.

Exactly the same happened in our last General Election. Because of the "first past the post" system, this government was elected from a minority of votes, but the distribution handed it to them. As for the incredibly small number of people who were entitled to elect Bojo as the leader of the Tories - about the same as one single constituency.

There are a lot of people in this country who are distinctly unhappy with our electoral system, because we keep getting a government who believe that they have "a mandate from the electorate" for just about any daft ideas that even only a minority of their own supporters actually want, when we should have governments who realise that they do not have a majority of the electorate on their side, and should temper their extreme policies accordingly - that would assume common decency, which is distinctly lacking in politics nowadays.

As for talking to my "hopefully Conservative MP" and getting any joy - that boat has sailed, I've got more chance of winning a multi-rollover on the Euromillions on the Friday and a multi-rollover on the UK Lotto the day after.

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 old skool 23 May 2020
In reply to Red Rover:

re: "how many people have the luxury of 90 day holidays...?"

There is a small army of climbers, skiers, surfers, mountain guides and saisonniers from the UK, many of whom have become used to spending several months at a time in other EU countries. 

Post edited at 10:51
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 mysterion 23 May 2020
In reply to fred99:

> So you're in Norway. Maybe you should look at the incredibly small "majority" in this country (UK) that did vote for Leave, and take note of the number of people who didn't vote (bastards) which will then show you that the people who voted Leave were in fact a distinct MINORITY.

> The fact that  simple majority of those who voted was regarded as acceptable just indicates how crassly stupid those who prepared the vote were

Just shut up and claim asylum

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 wbo2 23 May 2020
In reply to old skool: anyone figured out what needs to happen for UK based guides to legally provide services in the Alps? Bear in mind that each client is technically a separate contract, 

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 Tom V 23 May 2020
In reply to old skool:

I'm sure they are very concerned about the OP but it has less relevance to mainstream citizens, the majority of whom don't get 90 days holiday in a year and don't own second homes anywhere, let alone abroad

The adverse economic effect highlighted by Fred has no specific reference to the climbing community and applies to everyone so should be broadcast to internet forums across the country, not just UKC.

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 fred99 23 May 2020
In reply to mysterion:

> Just shut up and claim asylum


I have been watching certain programmes on the TV with more interest.

The price of homes in both France and Spain is very inviting, as is the climate.

As I speak French (reasonably well) and Spanish (passably) I am seriously contemplating moving once I reach retirement (December 2021).

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 mysterion 23 May 2020
In reply to fred99:

Good luck

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 wbo2 23 May 2020
In reply to fred99: You'd better be pretty sharp... 29 December will have different rules to 1st Jan

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 John2 23 May 2020
In reply to old skool:

There is one further option for a few people - if either you or one of your parents were born in either Eire or Northern Ireland you can apply for an Irish passport. It's not very expensive - less than £100.

If this does not apply there will be residence permits available for UK citizens who wish to stay for more than 90 days - again, not very expensive.

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In reply to John2:

Hey John, I've been looking into this and just wondered if you had any more info on the residence permits. What I have read suggests I need an NIE number but that will not give me a residence permit and that to get one of these would not be that simple. I'd be overjoyed if you could point me in the direction of something which tells me otherwise  

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In reply to old skool:

thanks for highlighting this campaign Old skool, I'm on it now and will share with my friends to do the same. Fingers crossed! 

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 John2 23 May 2020
In reply to Emilysaladfingers:

Here's the official guidance https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-france - I think at the moment it's too early to know what the final arrangement will be. I do know a number of people who spend 6 months or so in France every year, and they don't seem too worried about the situation. The only person I know who will have problems works as a musician in bars on an irregular basis, therefore doesn't have a full employment contract.

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 old skool 23 May 2020
In reply to John2:

> I do know a number of people who spend 6 months or so in France every year, and they don't seem too worried about the situation.

People with or without a current "titre de sèjour" (residence permit)? From January 2021 you will only be able to stay in France for "six months or so" if you have either a "carte de sèjour" (residence permit) or a long-stay visa.

Post edited at 17:26
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 fred99 23 May 2020
In reply to wbo2:

> You'd better be pretty sharp... 29 December will have different rules to 1st Jan


I retire in December 2021, not this year !

The rules on emigration should be sorted by then (at least I hope so).

Post edited at 17:29
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 Jonathan Emett 23 May 2020
In reply to old skool:

Thanks for posting. I'm currently in spain 8-9 months of the year, working remotely. I'm looking at residency but it is complex and expensive. I'd take 180 days instead without too much grumbling

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 jimtitt 23 May 2020
In reply to old skool:

It will almost certainly be up to each country in the EU to decide their own rules as is the case now, any state can set their own requirements or refuse entry even if the person has a Schengen visa.

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 John2 23 May 2020
In reply to old skool:

Exactly - the visa will be easily obtained.

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 old skool 23 May 2020
In reply to John2:

> Exactly - the visa will be easily obtained.

Are you speaking from experience or is this merely speculation?

This is the current application procedure for UK citizens wishing to apply for a long-stay visa for France:

https://france-visas.gouv.fr/web/france-visas/visa-application-guidelines

Here's a brief summary so you don't have to wade through all the info:

The visa application form must be accompanied by various supporting documents. They recommend that you apply at least 20 working days before the date you wish to travel. Visa processing times vary.  Once visa applications have been transferred to the consular authority, the processing time is from 2 working days up to 15 working days. This will vary according to different factors. You need to make sure you allow enough time before your departure date to schedule an appointment to have your application reviewed. Applicants over the age of 12 are required to attend in person, This will involve a trip to  London, Manchester or Edinburgh.

Those applying for a visa must pay €80 for short-stay visas and €99 for long-stay visas. Visa fees are not reimbursed even if your application is refused or you withdraw your application. You also require valid travel insurance covering any possible costs for medical repatriation, and emergency and/or hospital treatment. This is mandatory.

Post edited at 21:01
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 LeeWood 23 May 2020
In reply to old skool:

And things will be getting more complicated in the years to come - with plans for combining  vaccination history with your passport. This is referenced as the EC roadmap strategy for strengthening against vaccine preventable diseases - with a conclusive outcome for 2022 

https://ec.europa.eu/health/sites/health/files/vaccination/docs/2019-2022_roadmap_en.pdf

Post edited at 20:55
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 John2 23 May 2020
In reply to old skool:

I have gone the Irish passport route myself, so I was relying on what I had been told. I have to say, applying for the passport is actually easier than what you describe since no personal interview is required.

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 racodemisa 24 May 2020
In reply to fred99:

They already are.Theyre written into the withdrawal agreement.I f you are in Spain or france right now both countries have temporary residence visa protocols.In France I think you can apply for this up to June next year.But in both cases(Spain+France) you have to be in that country at the same time.

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 racodemisa 24 May 2020
In reply to Jonathan Emett:

90 days in every 180 that is.

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 Red Rover 24 May 2020
In reply to old skool:

That sounds like quite a simple visa process to be honest.

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 jimtitt 24 May 2020
In reply to Red Rover:

Applying for a Schengen visa is simple enough, residency for the over 90 days isn't going to be so easy for many. Van lifers are going to struggle.

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