UKC

Not sure if this is the best forum for this?

As someone who seems to be popular with these little swines and who reacts to them quite badly just wondering if people might like to list locations they are active at.

I was badly bitten this week at Scout Scar, Barrowfield Buttress and last year similarly at Humphrey Head and Chapel Head Scar. Previous years at Robin Procter scar. Information about where to be cautious would be much appreciated. Off for a good scratch now! 

In reply to tmawer:

Pot Scar is awful for them. I got mited after a recent trip there, despite the application of repellent. I even managed to get a bite in my belly button that then got infected

In reply to tmawer:

Warton Main Quarry up on the terrace where the sport climbs are - first time I'd been bitten by 'em - itchy for days.

In reply to tmawer:

Yes, we got badly bitten at Scout Scar recently. 🙁 Dinbren has also been bad. The bites itch for days. 

In reply to tmawer:

Probably not the most useful information for you, but they're also in my garden. Possibly the greenhouse. ☹️

At this time of year I just take it that they can be around anywhere with dense vegetation.

In reply to tmawer:

This paper, by one of my wife's colleagues, tells all you need to know.

Alternatively

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1794169/ 

If you can't then;

1. They are little bastards.

2. Highly localised.

3. In South Cumbria they emerge end July- my mum reckons about 28 July in Howgill.

4. You can't see them.

5. They crawl up your legs and then find the nice warm moist bits- usually - backs of knees, groin- seams of clothes.

6. They burrow into your skin and it is this and their excretions that produce inflammation.

7. Which can be overnight- but they keep going for 3 days.

8. Benzyl benzoate- (readily available from chemist) works and kills them.- Also used for scabies.

9. Some people treat their lawns. apparently you can also do funny things with bits of card or something in the ground- they crawl up- seems silly.

10. We call them 'the underpants bugs'.

11. Seasick Steve has a song about them 'Chiggers'. (also found in North America)

In reply to tmawer:

I was bitten at Lawrencefield last week and the less-frequented bits of Aldery Cliff are often bad at this time of year. I remember some of the cliff tops on Lundy being pretty bad years ago.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Definitely Lundy. I also find them, or my belly button does, at Swanage. Not sure about this year as I've not been there much. 

They love my belly button!

In reply to tmawer:

I'm not sure if I've ever had them - maybe a few bites after a trip to Chapel Head? One of my friends has had them awfully at Chapel Head Scar though. Thinking about what is common to those places, they're all limestone scars in the South Lakes (except RPS). The same for Warton Main Quarry Terrace. Dinbren is also limestone. It makes me think that perhaps that quick-draining, limestone environment is particularly good for them? The ticks also love the same environment.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Oh no! I didn't notice anything after. Could some people be more attractive to them in some way? Perhaps you smell better than me, or are just better looking (to harvest mites at least)?!

In reply to Kevster:

They're still at Swanage. Also at Mowing Word this year at the top of Cormorant Flake area.

In reply to TobyA:

I think a more likely explanation is that I now react to the bites more obviously, having been sensitised by many previous exposures. Apparently I didn’t get bitten on one of the Lundy trips when lots of people, sat right next to me, did.  In reality, I was just  immunologically less primed and it didn’t show.

I got proper mauling this week from the midges at Curbar and, for the first time, I still have obvious lumps where I was bitten, 5 days later, so maybe something else is happening too.  It seems that the ability to quickly down-regulate an inflammatory response decreases with age (see also Covid-19).

I’m also still in pain from Argosy Crack but that’s only indirectly age-related!

In reply to Dave Garnett:

That makes sense. Although it seems immunological response change in all sorts of ways with age - my dad had terrible hay fever when I was a kid and I don't think ever gets it now for example. I didn't get hayfever until my 30s.

It's a beast from memory. I remember struggling for ages to get a tiny nut in at the crack - it might have even been an RP - then promptly knocking it out with my shoulder as I battled upwards. I don't what grade it should be, but VS 4b seemed much too normal after doing it!

In reply to Dave Garnett:

I think there's something in this, Dave. I never used to be that bothered by midge bites (in my 20s) but now at the grand old age of 50-something, some midge bites invoke an immediate swelling. Similarly with harvest mites -- I had a few tell-tale red dots (that was all) with my debut on Lundy, but the reactions are getting worse each year I've been living in South Lakeland (I suspect I'm the individual in Chris's post!). 

In reply to tmawer:

Are these 'chiggers' Tony?

We got eaten alive at Chapel Head a couple of weeks ago. Classic waistband/underpants bites. Smidge round the ankles/shins has seen me chigger free for the 3 visits since. 

On a scale of 1-really bloody itchy they were really bloody itchy. I gave up counting at 20 bites and they only surfaced and got itchy a couple of days later.

A really good scrub down after climbing can dislodge them also - but you can't see them, they're tiny. 

In reply to freeheel47: This an area of work for me. I would dispute some of your comments. 

Yes you can they look like orange dust (see photos in an earlier post last year)

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/off_belay/harvest_mites_attack-723671?v=1...

They do not burrow, but use disposable chitinous mouthparts that they leave behind (they are only feeding as juveniles), the adults are vegetarians.

In reply to tmawer:

Neotrombicular autumnalis

In reply to SouthernSteve:

South lakes / North lancs is a notorious hot spot for harvest mites. Never been anywhere remotely as bad as our back lawn when growing up there. You could hundreds in a single afternoon. No socks, no underwear and camping on Anglesey for as much of the summer holiday as possible were our solutions. They were always worse when the weather was fine, though perhaps that was just spending more time on the grass.

In reply to lardy nick:

Some parts of Soham in Cambridgeshire were similar, people did not let their dogs in the gardens during the summer - I never discussed the people  . However you will talk to some vets and they see no cases, so really localised. 

In reply to SouthernSteve:Yes they can vary in seemingly the same habitat over just a few miles. My dad's work colleagues in Lancaster thought he was making them up. 

In reply to Jon Read:

*Massive over-simplification alert*  There are two different bits of immunology that might be difficult to separate.  One is that repeated exposure to a foreign antigen will certainly tend to ramp up the response.  However, exposure to antigens very early in life, at the right dose (generally very small) and via the right route, tends to produce tolerance to antigens and this is mediated by specific suppressor cells.  To some extent, this also applies to self antigens, where autoreactive cells are suppressed, rather than being completely deleted (although this is what happens to most autoreactive clones in the thymus, prenatally).  Like many other functions, this active suppression tends to get a bit tired in middle age, resulting in the increase in autoimmunity and some allergies later in life.

At least, this was the understanding twenty or more years ago when I actually knew what I was talking about...

In reply to Dave Garnett:

I almost responded to this, so adding to your comments. Fleas -  usually you get bitten, sensitised and then longer term become tolerant (if you are a person or a guinea pig, but not a dog) and the paper described above for harvest mites seems to suggest eventual desensitisation/tolerance. The short seasonal nature of the bites makes me doubt that would be the case. Culicoides spp. midges definitely cause long term hypersensitivity in both horses and sheep, although I have heard it said that salmon fishermen eventually become 'immune', but there is little in the literature about people.

On another note harvest mites are cited as a vector for Borrelia and Ehrlichia and in a German Study are able to live in a wide set of environments, fitting with the local spread seen in some areas.

In reply to SouthernSteve:

Better and better!  This makes me wonder, rather uncomfortably,  about the rare bite that goes on to develop into a small, low-grade abscess...

In reply to tmawer:

Not sure if they are becoming more prolific and widespread? Although I had never previously been affected (despite being an all-weather shorts-wearer), this year I got 14 bites whilst climbing South Peak limestone (Royston Grange).

In reply to tmawer:

Little buggers. They're called berry bugs in Fife, and for years I thought they were made up. My wife suffers really badly, but I don't notice the bites - to the extent that I almost thought she was imagining things (not helped by the fact that they are basically invisible). They're also dramatically localised: the garden in our previous flat was a hotspot, but when we moved  literally just over the road the problem vanished. I've never encountered them at a crag, I wrongly assumed they were more garden-related. That's yet another blood sucker to add to the avoid-list. Joy.

In reply to biscuit:

Yes, i got mauled there this time last year. I think another good idea as well as your smidge of the ankles tip, is not to leave any spare clothing on the ground. I was badly bitten around the neck as well as the usual hot spots, and think they had climbed onto my neck warmer taken off whilst climbing. 

In reply to SouthernSteve:

Gross.... Is that on your dog? 

In reply to tmawer:

I got absolutely savaged camping in woodland at East Grinstead last year (not far from Stone Farm rocks). My husband was untouched. I didn't know what they were at the time but covered the bites in alcohol hand sanitiser, which will have stopped them hanging about at least. I then treated all my camping gear in case they were lurking in it, and washed my clothing on a hot wash, I got very paranoid.

Apparently dusting your socks with stinky sulphur powder helps a lot, I'm tempted as I've a big bag of it for the garden.

In reply to tmawer:

No on a friends dog. She was a reliable source of photos and mites for teaching for some years!

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

I haven't been this year, but I've picked them up at Limekilns a couple of times.

In reply to SouthernSteve:

You've got very hairy testicles!

In reply to Cobra_Head:

I must disconnect my web cam!

In reply to SouthernSteve:

Thanks Steve- always happy to defer to expertise / new information- I guess what I meant was despite years of getting eaten I've never seen one!  But I suppose I've not known exactly what I was doing- I'll try better next time.  

But they are little bastards.

In reply to skog:

I managed to get a few bites a couple of weeks ago at Limekilns. Every year it seems to be the only Central Scotland venue that I get them.