UKC

Planning to do La Demande in a couple of weeks and just wondering how people managed the logistics. Condsidering leaving our car at the top of the gorge and trying to get a taxi to the start of the walk in. Neither my partner or I handle the heat very well so thinking of starting early and carrying plently of water, however rucksacks sound problematic in the chimneys. Any ideas of what worked well for people would be of interest. Thanks.

Done it twice:

Hitch to the bottom (or taxi I guess) 

Walk through the tunnels without a head torch using a stick trailing along the wall for guidance

Carry a litre of water attached to harness.

It gets increasingly shady as the chimney get deeper. 

A great day out - enjoy

'Back in the day' we hitched from the camp-site to Point Sublime, walked to the route, climbed it and hitched back from the top. We didn't carry anything other than a rack, and wore our (comfy) rock-shoes the whole day - but that was a different world!

Chris

PS we did it all again a couple of days later for Ula

Did this route last week! We had similar concerns about the logistics, and didnt feel right taking a taxi! We took bikes, and stashed them in the trees near the top out (worth finding before hand!). Then we parked the car at Couloir Sampson, walked in, climbed and cycled back to the car. Worked very well, and the ride was mostly downhill for approx. 8 miles, 45 mins. 

We took about 5 litres of water between us, and it was just enough in 25 degree heat. It gets considerably easier in the shade of the chimneys, although the climbing arguably gets harder! We had a small bag each and just hung it from our belay loops when the chimneys got tight

Its a brilliant day out, good luck!!

If you leave your car at Point Sublime there's a reasonable, but longish, descent path from the top of the route, following the edge of the gorge through Belvedere Trescaire and taking a slight left fork at Valaute. I seem to remember it taking about an hour. It was useful to recce it in daylight beforehand, as we ended up doing it in the dark.

Back in the day wasn't it traditional to do The Abseil?

5 litres of water ?!?!

We drove to near the start of the tunnels, walked in with the stick in hand, and from the top one of us hitched back to the car.

Seemed to make more sense not relying on hitching at first to ensure maximum morning coolness.

I remember being a bit thirsty.

Maybe it was 4, but I had two 1l bottles with me in a small bag. Im sure my partner had a 2l camelbak thing and another litre bottle. 

We got through it all!

It was a long time ago but I think we just did the abseils down through the jardin des ecureils to get to the start.

I abseiled when I did it.  Maybe the stations are a bit more conspicuous than they were, and we obviously ended on an old abseil line but it took us bloody ages.  Despite getting an early start we were in the full glare of the May sunshine by the time we got on the route.  If I ever did the route again I'd walk.

In retrospect, we didn't have enough water for comfort but that was partially because the abseil in took way longer than anticipated and we were in the full heat of the sun.  If I was doing it again, I'd probably use a hydration pack with a load of water, then guzzle a load before the climb and carry maybe a litre per person.  I don't remember much chimneying as such - more bridging.  We shared a small 15 or 20l bag between us carried by the second.

We drove to the parking and walked through the tunnels with head torches. Climbed the route with a small sack each without any problems. Took some bread, a tin of salmon and about a litre of water each and this was August. I can't imagine climbing with the weight of 5 litres as someone suggested. Done on my 40th  birthday, 33 years ago, I found it an altogether fabulous climb - makes my top ten of 50 odd years climbing. I believe they might now have tamed the crux bomb bay chimney with bolts?

From the top we hitched back to the car. After the obligatory 2 x "formidable" sized beers the drive back down the rim of the gorge was interesting for the passenger! The birthday party at the campsite was also memorable.

5 litres between two of us. That averages at 2.5 kgs each plus the weight of the bottle. We only took a limited rack with us, so thats hardly an enormous burden, probably just replacing the weight of a 'full' rack. Anyway the weight drops the higher you go!

We'll be there from the 20th-8th as well. Might be worth exchanging numbers and we could pick each other up on alternate days after doing it? Otherwise I think we'll just abseil or hitch. 

We left our car at the start of the walk-in through the tunnels, then hitched back afterwards. Plenty of drivers will give lifts to climbers.

My mates were benighted below the chimneys, due to getting in too late; one getting tired; out of water and dark. Do not use sticks in the tunnel. Take a light headtorch. Do take a lot of water it will be drunk by mid day. Take a small sack with some provisions. Both be fit for a full length route. .... they sat on a ledge believing they would be rescued and occasionally fell off onto a single bolt. Finished the route next morning leapfrogging an essential large cam. Returned to camp and slept in plus 30 degree of heat in tent for 20 plus hours.  Happy days!!!

To get to the start of La Demande - doesn't ring a bell with me,

Chris

Are you getting confused with the Luna Bong abseil which had a notorious reputation?  As far as I can remember the Demande was a walk in through the tunnels with the subsequent problem of ending up miles from your car. Apart from anything else the route was not fully "equipped" back then.

Al

It will be at least 35 years since I did that route. It was July so we bivvied by the car at Pointe Sublime to get a first light start, and managed to walk back to the car from the top. We had climbed another route, a bit nearer to Point Sublime, a few days earlier that enabled us to check the walk off. I seem to remember we had to cross a stream on the way back, which we took full advantage of.

We just took a single sack, carried by the second, with a couple of water bottles.

John

I understand it is normal for French teams to ab in these days.There is apparently a good set of chains all the way down,

Back in the day...you could abseil Luna to the jardin. Walk to its RH end (looking in). Abb down to a sub jardin; and from its corner abb to the bottom. 

Dropped you an email about this - but have you got any more info? 

Is it straightforward enough to find? 

We did it around this time last year. Parked at Point Sublime, walked in with head torch and small sacks, climbed the route, then walked back to the car. The path back to the car isn't always obvious but if you keep an eye on the terrain and follow your nose you will get there.

I wouldn't recommend abbing in.

It was a lot of years ago, but cannot remember any major problems with the walk off. I've only recently got rid off my old Verdon guide so I haven't got anything to consult for more details, sorry.

John

No worries if it was straightforward I'm sure I'll find it. 

Never done the route. 

If you were to abseil down, do folks think it would be feasible to stash water on the way down the abseil?

Simon...

Thanks for all the replies. Picking the bones out of them all, I think we will walk in rather than risk a potentially complex and lengthy ab' approach, and carry plenty of water. Will try to tie in with Mischa but if difficult then a taxi is OK with me..... I'm the kind of cad who gets the train up to Cloggy! 

I've done this six times over 42 years, three drop offs and pick up, two hitch hikes back to Couloir Samson and one ab in.  I'd park and hitch round........

You will be in the chimneys and shade from around pitch six. Pitches can be linked with a 70m if you're up for it... saves some belay faff.

Clearly I like it, it's a great 'must do' adventure.

Have fun,

Steve

Like the sound of this. We currently rock an 80m 8.6 single with a 20m 6mm tagline stashed in the bag in case we need to ab. Means you can belay with a grigri on hard routes if you want to and massively saves on rope faff, plus you can double it up for a single pitch of less than 40m if the going gets wiggly. 

Proper psyched. Love the place. 

Incidentally if anyone is looking for inspiration... Here's our ticklist (sure it will get much longer but this will do for the next 2-3 trips!) https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=2769

You're right, it was Luna Bong I was thinking of.

Did this when I was six month pregnant, we drove to the start, walked in, climbed it, hubby walked back to get the car and I walked to the road to hitch a lift. First car stopped - a really nice exiled Yorkshire man who was living in the area as a mountain guide.

Great route. Enjoy!

climbed the demande first in 82', at that time the walk in through the tunnels was the way to go, nowadays it's much easier to abseil down to the bottom of the gorge and have the car at hand when getting to the top. several abseil options exist, though in my opinion the best is to abseil down to the jardin des ecureuils ( dalles grises abseils, 4 x roughly 40m) , then walk down the jardin , grab a fixedrope and get to the next abseil station. three more abseils follow. the second going a bit diagonally (upriver), the last nicely freehanging. walk down a little bit and walk upriver for about 5 min to the start. 

a small rucksack is no problem as there is not that much real chimneying. on the chimney pitches just hand the rucksack on a sling on your harness. If the weather is warm and you're not really fast on that kind of terrain, take some water.

a small rack is all that's neede: cams up to C2 or C3 and a few med/sm nuts and a few slings 

enjoy, it's a cool route

With an 80m you can go from the belay at the base of the top V groove, past the tree all the way to the top. This links two 1/2 pitches.

Sounds good! 

Did it at Easter time I think. Walked in with my family, bivied and family walked out in morning with spare kit. Don't recall carrying much water but then it wasn't that hot.

For the sake of completeness and for anyone interested;

Having just got back from the trip I would recommend others to start early to allow plenty of time as it is a very big route, and best not to underestimate it. The grade has no bearing to "standard" sport grades, perhaps because of the style, or perhaps the setting and the very sustained nature of the climbing, and the need to accept longish run outs if you don't want to take forever.

We took close to 4 litres of water and still ended up somewhat thirsty at the top only having been in the sun from around the top of pitch 4 until into the chimneys at around pitch 9. We managed to get a lift off Mischa back to our car by the tunnels (where a torch is handy), and it would have just about killed me to have to walk back after 10 hours on the route tired, thirsty and with sore feet....thanks Mischa. Hitching back may have been difficult as there were few people around when we finished at about 6.30.

Route finding is clear apart from my heading directly up a crack with 2 pegs on its right wall around pitch 8 where I should have gone right where there were bolts I hadn't seen.

Awesome day out and thanks for the tips people.

Here's my logbook entry for anyone but interested in how it went on... 

Proper stuff. The vision of the original ascentionists was remarkable. Cora lead P2 and P4, I did the rest. Chimneys were harrowing! Started the day as a four which quickly dropped to a two after the other guys didn't fancy waiting around for the Polish team ahead of us who were moving at a stately pace to say the least. We politely asked to move past at the end of P3, and promptly forgot about them for the next few hours of desperate, heart pounding chimney wallowing. At least the polish means your tips don't get trashed, but a fall from high on P11 would be unthinkable and would definitely take you past the belay. Cora wriggled her way up with usual style minus a couple of explosive exits from chimney bridging that left me deeply thankful she hadn't got on the lead, and I scampered thankfully up the final slabs and built a trad anchor after somehow managing to miss every single bolt at the top. Cora tops at around 18:50 making for a 9hour ascent. Joyous dancing around ensues. Cut to the darkening sky and thoughts turn to the Polish guys of whom there is still no sign. We start to get a bit twitchy at the thought of benightment in those chimneys and decide to hang around a bit just in case. Cora heads off to get the van as we left it in the wrong car park and after a bit of thought I ab back down the last pitch to have a look for them as by now it's proper dark. After a bit of swinging around yelling I hear a shout back from the Polish guys who are stuck at the bottom of pitch 11 i.e. grim 6a death chimney and gather that they'd rather like a rope if possible please - luckily we had the 100m static in the van so Cora runs back up the hill armed with rope and ascenders, and I get the dubious pleasure of abbing back down into those chimneys in the dark and teaching a couple of very grateful Polish chaps how to jumar. After a few false starts (I only had one jumar and a microtraxion so we had to drop an ascender back down on each pitch) we all climbed back up the rope with minimal faff and got back to the van at midnight. Drove the two back to their car in Couloir Samson and collapsed in the van, knackered. What a day!

I got into conversation with Francois, (Can't remember his last name) the guy who put it up, in Kalymnos a couple of years ago.  For those who know the scene it's the elderly French guy with a grey drooping mustache.  I told him I had done it and he asked me when.  I said early 80's and he seemed suitably impressed.  He also appeared to be a little dismissive of those who had done it more recently as apparently it's now quite well bolted especially in the chimneys which used to be very run out.

Al

In the late 70s a single wonky bolt, not far above the stance protected the groove up to the tree.......

Steve

François Guillot, I think.

Yes that's right.  Interesting to see the comments on the Logbook. HVS 5a for seasoned crack climber.  At the time I would have considered myself one of those but E2 5b seemed about right to me at the time.  There's a lot of 5b climbing for HVS.  If it was just a couple of pitches I might agree.  We got caught by lightening in the chimney at the top which was very scary.  I think it took us 5 or 6 hours to climb but it felt like a serious undertaking overall and not to be taken too lightly. One of the highlights of my climbing career however.

Al

Good on you for going back and helping out, I've waited around at the top and thrown a rope down the last couple of pitches for someone but I doubt I'd ab back down, especially for people I don't know! I'd say you went above and  beyond there. 

I think the HVS 5a thing back in the day came from Livesey's book of lies - that's what we had. I think he tried to make the book attractive to Brits and Yanks alike and used a strange combination of US and UK grades. La Demande got 5a (5.9).

It's still a bold undertaking Al but I'm in sport climbing mode at the moment so not as hot on the bold stuff. Trad head came back soon enough but it was still cheeky - I suspect since Francois did it the route is an awful lot more polished! Fantastic day though and a definite highlight of the trip so far... Still got a couple of days left. 

In relation to the grade I would say the chimney pitches could have E2 for the boldness, the cracks etc didn't really dip over HVS in my opinion. Personal grade would be around 6b but very sustained. A 5 hour ascent is very impressive in my opinion, even without the polish guys slowing us on the first 3 pitches I reckon we'd have needed 8 - but we weren't in a rush and just used our 50 halves so perhaps that's why.

Nonetheless my respect for an 80's ascent, must have been thrilling. 

Cheers buddy. We got benighted in the gorge last year (a story best left for another time) so didn't fancy leaving these two chaps to the same prospect. In the end it was somehow rather good fun with the full moon lighting the gorge and the sound of the birds in the night - rather like the exciting parts of an epic without the actual 'epic' part! (For me at least). 

Plus they gave us a bottle of wine to say thanks - can't complain with that! 

A bit late for the OP, but I found this on the Camp to camp page. Looks the simplest approach to me as it avoids the problem of trying to get back to the car. 

https://www.camptocamp.org/routes/629875/fr/verdon-l-escales-rappels-du-jar...