UKC

Unless you are going to spend a bit of money . Even a little bit . Ideally buy a pair of expedition boots or a new down jacket in needless sports ( yes yes , I know mr reid is a billionaire but his staff still need jobs) but even a coffee and a slice of cake or a couple of socially distant pints . I was going to reply to the thread about advice for the lakes but the replies so far have it covered. What prompted me to start this thread were the dislikes to the reply that said please spend some money .  

I have been pondering this in the last few days. I live just on the edge of the national park. The houses either side of me are both second homes . On the right , Gary and ian are barristers from a large northern city. They don't let the house out and use it infrequently . When they do come they eat out most of the time and any shopping they do in small local shops in the local town. They eat breakfast and drink coffee in the local coffee shop ( admittedly as trendy as anything in their northern city ,   Where the owner knows them by name ) . When I told them that a friend of mine is a handyman they gave him a set of keys ( I already have some) and asked him to fix anything that needs fixing or anything I notice . Slates , leaks  etc .  . When he emails them a bill it gets paid instantly . And so on and so on . They have commented that they feel welcome in  town and in the village . 

on the other side are Janet and bill. They are really nice people . They come from some where " down south" . However When they or members their family arrive the amount of shopping they unload from a super market that doesn't have branches up north (as far as I know) is eye watering , prompting me one day to say " there is a sainsburies in town you know " . All work on the house is done by them or relatives from down south. And so on . Apart from me and their nearest neighbour on the other side , knowbody knows who they are . 

I know everybody Is different and a couple of quid to some people means tomorrow's meal  , but please don't say you can't afford a coffee or beer it if you ve made it here . if you can't afford or be bothered to put a couple of quid into the locally economy do you think that most people who live and work here welcome you ?  

This isn't addressed to anybody On here or meant to be a dig at anybody on ukc other than the people who disliked the post about     This on the other thread . 

In reply to mike123:

It was exactly the same in YDNP when I lived there, small houses that would be within budget of young locals sitting empty for 40 plus weeks of the year. Often the only money they would spend is on car parking, good for the national parks coffers, but useless for the local economy and as those car park and toilet fees represent significant income to the parks, I doubt anything will ever change in terms putting local covenants on more property. 

In reply to mike123:

I'll be going for a walk in the Dales today when I can get my act together. If I can find somewhere open I'll prise the wallet out. That couple next to you are from Darn Sarf - it's a horrible place near that London and it's full of Savverners or sumfink comin' over 'ere stealin' are jobs an' ....

Oops, sorry I don't know what came over me!

In reply to mike123:

I come from somewhere "down south", the Lakes is one of my favourite places, and rest assured we buy local when we come! 

In reply to mike123:

I understand where you're coming from, but whatever the Tory chancellor is telling you, this idea that consumption will save us is nonsense. First, it does still represent a real coronavirus risk to be encouragingly people into pubs, cafes, shops etc at the moment. Second, even at the best of times, Cumbria has a real issue of poverty. A report last year found child poverty is actually the norm. Even when tourism is booming, it isn't working for local people. Instead, it is actually deepening many inequalities, with much of these being connected to inflated land prices and an investment crisis. So, ignore the Rishi Sunak BS because it is piss in the sea, frankly.

In reply to mike123:

I don't really care whether locals welcome me or not. Living in a tourism hotspot is a choice many of them have exercised.  I don't need their blessing to visit somewhere in my own country.

In reply to Dogwatch:

Nevertheless, I'm sure they look forward to your charm and sunny disposition.

In reply to mike123:

Southerners!  Crucify them all now.

In reply to mike123:

Stick the visitors in the Wicker Man. Sacrifice them for the good of the harvest. 

Oh, wait, that's what we are doing, "reinvigorating the economy". 

In reply to mike123: apologies for the " somewhere down south " bit in my op , I can see that that could be taken the wrong way and it really wasn't intended to be. On one side I have a couple who I can tell you exactly where they live , that they prefer a flat white to a latte , one of them is proper working class the other not so , etc etc . On the other , I other than their names and which supermarket they import thier shopping from , I really couldn't say . 

In reply to Dogwatch: I hear the peaks is a really nice place to visit . Especially if you call it that to everybody you meet . 

In reply to mike123:

Thinking a bit more about this, I reckon a plan that could work for Cumbria would be something like this:

1. Transform furlough into a basic citizens' income trial in Cumbria (and other similar regions which are suffering from underinvestment AND a covid-related crisis of crucial tourism industry). Given the profile of the area, most of this would not be simply hoarded as private wealth, but would be spent almost immediately in the local area, giving a boost to the local economy, increasing VAT and combatting poverty.

2. Invest in council housing in the area, and employ similar schemes to those that currently exist to keep this for local people and protections to stop them being bought and sold on. This would be a boost for local builders, be an investment of state money and tackle land/housing market inequalities.

3. A Green Investment fund, with a significant portion set aside for small local businesses and organisations, as well as more strategic uses, e.g. broader land management issues and infrastructure.

4. Apply the "Preston model" to public spending, whereby local government specifically contracts local providers to create a "virtuous cycle" of local spending and investment.

5. Strategic and coordinated public transportation development and investment, with the state taking over privately run trains and buses as necessary and dramatically reshaping provision. Particularly, the trains to the West Coast of Cumbria need to be improved and speeded up, to connect, e.g. Barrow to Manchester much more readily; transport issues to tourist honeypots need better planning to lower car congestion; and broader NW city connections (e.g. Manchester/Lancaster/Leeds/Sheffield/Liverpool) need to be improved.

In reply to silhouette:

Crucifixion is too good for them! Just take Jacinthe and Tristan's organic frappacino lattes away from them, the great, soft southern Jessie's! That'll learn 'em. Where's me flat cap and whippet?

In reply to mike123:

I was talking to the guy who owns the chippy in Tideswell. He reckons there are close to 100 holiday homes around the village which have pretty well kept the local trades going over lockdown. Income into tourist hotspots is overwhelmingly from grockles rather than climbers (Completely non scientific opinion) so I’m not sure this is the right platform for this message. Loads of climbers go to the Lakes, but it would be interesting to see the stats about what their contribution is.

In reply to mike123:

You live in Cockermouth, don't you? 😉

In reply to Lankyman:

Hate to break it to you, but whippets are now de rigeur in the more gentrified parts of London too.

Lovely dogs though so you can't blame em

In reply to mike123:

Whenever I see or hear this I now think of our dear departed friend, Al Evans.

Satup there in Heavens looking down and laughing.

In reply to mike123:

This is exactly what I see when I visit Anglesey too. Everyone comes down from Cheshire with a Range Rover or VW Transporter full of Waitrose supplies couple of times a year in the summer but the place is a ghost town for the rest of the year.

In reply to henryeh:

He will need to get a Lancashire heeler then.

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

Interesting. I lived in Tideswell between 1989 and 1998. There were some holiday homes then, but nothing like 100. What was annoying was allowing people to buy new starter properties, who were only using them as holiday homes. Tideswell was great because it had a strong local community, most of them born and employed in and around Tideswell.

When I moved from Sheffield to Calver in 1983, property prices were generally lower than Sheffield  and Council Tax (aka rates) were much less than Sheffield.

In reply to thepodge:

I am off to Cornwall for a weeks climbing tomorrow and renting a flat. We have been specifically advised to bring own food at the moment and not to buy in the local supermarkets etc because of Covid.

Make of that what you will.

In reply to thepodge:

At least get the right supermarket---it's Booths for the decent parts of Cheshire. ...

In reply to Dogwatch:

There is a difference between visiting for a day and buying up the very limited housing, that many barely use and then contribute nothing locally. Apart from the lost housing, the demand pushes up the price of remaining house way beyond any young local inhabitant. Have a look at house prices compared to average wages in any NP. 

In reply to wilkesley:

The chippy in Stoney was shut so I drove over to Tideswell. I said I didn’t know there were 100 homes in Tideswell, let alone holiday lets. wrt council tax, I moved from band D in Sheffield to band G/H in Calver so times have changed ☹️

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

Do you remeber the old ladies who use to run the cafe in Tideswell in the late 70's and 80's. A fearsome group of women

In reply to summo:

The thread title is "Please don't come to the lakes", not "Please don't buy a second home in the lakes". That is another subject entirely.

In reply to mike123:

It wasn't long ago we were told by everyone to stay away as if we turned up we would want to use the shops. Now you're telling us to come and use the shops.

Make up your mind.

I'm coming to the Lakes in a few weeks and my shopping will be delivered on arrival. I will spend most of my time on the fells or in the garden of the place I've rented. I might get a takeaway or buy an ice cream/coffee but will avoid crowded places like shops and restaurants. There's a pandemic and I have no intention of catching the virus on holiday.

You do know 'down south' is quite a big place don't you. Lots of people, lots of places, everyone different, most struggling to get by as best they can.

In reply to mike123:

The Lakes, like other national parks relies on tourism, and does pretty well out of it from what I can see. Most of the Lakeland towns are fairly gentrified and the majority of visitors stop in hotels/campsites, go on lake cruises/Beatrix Potter tours etc. So what if some people don't spend as much as you'd like. You can't go banning people from vast swathes of their own country, I mean you're well within your rights to go to London, wander about without spending a penny and then f@#k off home again. What's next, you've got to buy a kebab if you drive past Luton. And frankly, no-ones coming to cheer up the locals, they just want to see the pretty hills, and why the f@#k shouldn't they.

I agree that it would be nice if people recognized and contributed to the local economy but you can't make that a pre-requisite for visiting in the first place. Second homes seems like an entirely different subject and is a massive problem but one which needs govt legislation to keep it in check.

In reply to Tony the Blade:

Much missed. 

In reply to XXXX:

Indeed - starts at the M74

In reply to AJM79:

Good post.

And although the thread is about the Lakes and us Southerners, I live in another area hugely dependent on tourism and is currently massed by Northerners and their caravans.

Welcome one and all i say. Many local jobs will be saved by whatever demand can be reestablished and whatever flavour our current Chancellor may be his pockets wont be deep enough to solve this through government spending alone.

We go to the Lakes regularly and wave at all and sundry heading south to D&C from "up north". Reading some of the comments on here maybe I am being a snowflake and should be flicking the v's at them? No, on reflection I will continue to be pleased they also love the area I live in like I do. 

In reply to mike123:

Quite frankly, up yours.
I'll spend as much or little as I want wherever I go in the entire world.

I couldn't care less how much your rich wonder boys, Gary and Ian, spend.

In reply to Albert Tatlock:

Will it thrive on tripe and dripping?

In reply to Taylor's Landlord:

Crikey.

Someone's taking the internet personally again....

In reply to neilh:

Booths are outnumbered three to one by Waitrose in Cheshire, including the decent bits.

In reply to mike123:

Regardless of what the WG says about Wales if you are able to ignore the ‘locals’- many of whom are retirees from far away who are shouting for people not to come please do and spend a few quid.  

In reply to Lankyman:

I think they live off Thwaites bitter and black puddings.

In reply to The New NickB:

All the more exclusive then......lol

In reply to Albert Tatlock:

Bury Market puddings I hope.

Currently sitting on the  bank of the Ribble just up from Settle. So far none of the locals have tried stoning me. I think they're too despondent to bother right now - trouble at t'mill I expect. - and the workhouses are all closed down? I gave one of them some words of encouragement (Gerron yer bike, lazy bugger!) but as usual with simple Yorkshire folk I don't think it was appreciated. I shall drop a few coins in the poor box after my walk.

"For whoever may own the land, no man can own the beauty of the landscape; at all events no man can exclusively own it. Beauty is a kind of property which cannot be bought, sold or conveyed in any parchment deed, but it is an inalienable common right; and he who carries the true-seeing eyes in his head, no matter how poor he may otherwise be, is the legitimate lord of the landscape."

The people who live in the Lake District do not own it and its beauty and as such have no right to exact a toll from visitors who wish to experience the landscape.

In reply to CrispinLog:

Please remember that opinion the next time you campaign against any development within the park. 

In reply to mike123:

Intriguing thread and it really seems to have exposed the underlying personalities / characteristics of some posters and it becomes easy to identify people I'd like to have a pint and a chinwag with and those that I'd prefer to avoid.  I was the person who posted the comment in the other thread that the OP mentioned.  What I wanted to highlight was that someone who was intending to wild camp and then re-supply from their car during a multi-day visit to the Lakes could have a small but positive impact on many of the local businesses if they decided to re-stock in local shops or pay for accommodation (camping perhaps) locally (ignoring the fact that wild-camping isn't actually allowed in most of England and the behaviours of many visitors recently has been appalling in this respect).

Cumbria is a complex county economically, it has very high rates of employment (which is good) but much of that is in poorly paid sectors, agriculture, tourism and hospitality for example (which is less good).  Add to that the fact it's a beautiful county which contains the Lake District it is seen by many people as a giant holiday park rather than a place that people actually live in, work in and belong to.  Cumbria is a large county with a low population, this leads to high costs for local councils to deliver basic services across such large areas which results poor public services compared to more populated regions (especially public transport) - which in turn makes it difficult for people in Cumbria to commute to other places for better paying work. One poster seemed to think that this was a choice people made, I prefer to see it for what it is, a poverty trap for many.  It is not uncommon for many households to have to own and run two cars on low wages simply to get from A to B, as in rural areas there is no functional / useful means of public transport, anyone who runs a car will appreciate how costly they can be to run.  Add to this the extremely high house prices in many areas and you have a situation that is bleak for many, low wages and high living costs.   However, many Cumbrians are amazingly content, we do live in a fantastic place and appreciate that, but we also recognise the staggering differences econonically with more affluent parts of the Country.

Tourism contributes a significant amount to the Cumbria economy, around 3 of the 12 billion GVA per year on current figures, not an insignificant amount. So asking those people who do come here on their holidays or weekend breaks to spend some money locally shouldn't be too much to ask.   

I don't think Cumbria is unique, I am sure that many regions of the UK will share similar challenges, and asking people to spend some of their hard-earned cash locally when they visit these beautiful places shouldn't be too much to ask of anyone who can spare it.

In reply to Presley Whippet:

The quote is pretty against development as it's against landowning and is about preserving the beauty of a place for everyone not just the people who own it ( originally rich landowners buying swathes of land preventing the poor from walking on them, culminating in the likes of the mass trespass etc)

In reply to silhouette:

Kendal is halfway between where I live near Cambridge and Glencoe.  And there is a lot of Scotland North of Glencoe).  North/south is all relative (except north and south poles, obviously).

In reply to CrispinLog:

There are those, quite a few of them, maybe yourself, maybe not. "Friends" of the lake district spring to mind, who wish to follow your quote and exercise control over the economy of the area.

I can see the folly in this, can you? 

In reply to mike123:

Second homes and an under-funded local economy no use complaining on here about it, there must be local action you can get involved in to raise the issue? contact councillor / MP surely...

But on the "spend a bit of money"   Didn't see original post, but dislikes are probably from people like me.   Correct me if I'm wrong, but national parks and all the conservation of beauty you enjoy up there are funded by central government.   I have to work more and pay more tax just to live in a shitty flat in a city breathing pollution,  down south where my work is. That's my choice I suppose, but priced out of buying a place where I want and where I can work,   I've every right to come and make use of the Lakes and not spend a penny thanks.

In reply to rich5813:

You should change your handle to poor5813

In reply to AJM79:

Cumbria does depend on tourism and agriculture (did you know the county might lose its only agricultural college, Newton Rigg near Penrith) but that dependency is also actively enforcing a poverty status quo for many Cumbrians.  So you support what depends on tourism and you support the industry that employs some very poor locals and supports some wealthy people too.

C Witter raises a problem that is hidden to a high proportion of visitors but which is known to many who live there.

so far as transport infrastructure and neglect goes, on the rare occasions we go to Newcastle we park far out near the Airport and are amazed by the apparently different country and 21st century level of services that exist on Tyneside.  Like going from the old Eastern bloc into W Germany.

In reply to Route Adjuster:

excellent comments.  We run two very old cars out of necessity but I think the point has come where one will have to go after an enormous MOT bill for the one we need to keep.  After that I'll have only a bike to get to Penrith on days when I'm on my own as there are no buses (so when I get my buspass, probably never as the older folk are so well off these days and I suppose when I qualify in a year or two they will be gone, there won't be a bus within 45 minutes walk of where I live) so will be unable to go far on those days or in bad weather.

Another complexity of Cumbria is that it is indeed big with a small population but a lot of its area is not really habitable and so we are forced into a much smaller practical human area apart from hill farming and mountain going.  So there is a lot of competition for that habitable area when you look at second home ownership.

In reply to rich5813:

I think you misunderstand what a National park is, how much money they get and what that is used for.  The national parks are not responsible for things like infrastructure, education, refuse collection, street lighting etc.  All of these are funded in exactly the same way as any other, through council tax paid by local inhabitants.  The National park money is used to provide some central facilities (visitor centres) and to provide oversight and control in areas like planning applications (which by the way limit economic development in non tourism industries and also limit the ability to build housing).  National Parks are not like municipal parks.

Lake District National Park receives around £5-6 million from central government, just under 1/2 its overall income. As a comparison, around 1/3 of the 10 Billion annual costs for Transport for London comes from government grants, so you cannot claim that the National parks are funded by central government as a free, open access resource, that's just plain wrong. 

In reply to C Witter:

Fantastically well thought out and everything, but while we're waiting for the glories that a progressive system of governance could bring to the more deprived areas of the UK, and the lakes in particular, could we not help out a bit by shopping local?

In reply to mike123:

TBH this whole your, only welcome in the Lake District if you are spending is not sitting well with me. 

I love the Lakes and spend a lot of time there, and do spend money there, but some how find it objectional that it's a requirement for me to spend money there.

I was once parking up in nibthwaite, and looking for somewhere to park.

A chap said what you after lad.

I want to park somewhere, where I will not piss any one off.

He said full of offcomers this place now, wherever you park you will piss someone off, so you park wherever you want, it's a free country.

In reply to Route Adjuster:

Ok well you're right there I don't have a clue,  excellent info.  I sympathise and I do spend money up there.  My point to the main thread is that you can't complain about visitors to a national park area not spending money.  So many individual situations all around the country worse than living in such a beautiful place and infrastructure problems there are not unique. 
If there isn't something people want to spend money on because of planning restrictions, or government is failing to provide,  what are the discontented doing about it? Complaining on UKC? Voting in Tories ain't gonna help

In reply to birdie num num:

Am I not allowed to be a penny pinching because I'm a southerner?

In reply to mike123:

I've just driven past a pub in New Mills called "Pride of the Peaks".

In reply to J1234

Not a requirement,  just a request.

In reply to mike123:

It's interesting how, during the lockdown, much was made of discovering what we could do without and how many of the things we spend money on do not really make us any happier, but now it seems we're not doing our bit for the country if we don't go out and spend money on stuff we don't need. Maybe some people have just found they can enjoy the countryside without getting an overpriced coffee or visiting a gear shop or whatever.

In reply to Route Adjuster:

Request denied.

In reply to GrahamD:

It must be run by offcomer Southern Jessies!

In reply to mike123:

I'm baffled by the idea that a day out involves even going into a town, let alone buying stuff. I go to the hills with my food in my bag. I park by the hill, go for my walk/ run/ cycle/ climb etc and I drive home. Why would I spend money? I don't at home, so why should I change my habits? The idea of buying a coffee (in a disposable cup which will go into landfill??) or a cake (why do I need extra sugar??) just to support people who happen to live there is odd. They have not been impacted by me being there!

Nope, no unnecessary commercialism from me!

In reply to girlymonkey:

To be fair, parts of Skye turning into more or less one big traffic jam for about eight months of the year probably does impact the people who live there. If I lived in Glen Brittle I think I would be thoroughly pissed off about the Fairy Pools nonsense. I'm pretty pissed off about it and I only go to Skye a few times per year! As for the Lakes..........

In reply to mike123:

mixed messages I'm afraid Mike, remember these headlines:

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/coronavirus-day-trips-...

Now the shops are open and people are allowed to spend money I would like to ask what has changed? Is Cumbria no longer a "hotspot"?

If I were a visitor I would quite rightly give a two finger salute to those who now only what me to visit to spend my hard earned dough.

We can't have it both ways.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Indeed, and I object every year to tour providers that I work for about being sent there. I keep saying that we need to sell itineraries which don't go there in peak summer months, but they are adamant that that is what keeps people booking. I avoid the honeypots as much as possible and we go for the unusual routes up to the busy places, but it is still awful. I'm starting to really dislike the place, which makes me sad! But, when it is that busy, they don't want more people in shops! There's no space!!

In reply to Dave Ferguson:

What's really pissed me off with all of this 'don't visit the Lakes' stuff is the assumption that that those of us who don't actually live there don't contribute anything to the ongoing provision of goods and services to the inhabitants.    I've personally spent at least 50% of my working time in lockdown working my socks off on providing a public service that directly benefits the residents and communities of Cumbria (the Lakes included).   So I think that gives me the right to go on the odd day trip to enjoy some leisure time in the National Park...

They are not some autonomous kingdom that exists in isolation from the rest of the country and can therefore make up their own rules and bar the rest of us from entering to partake of the public goods on offer (ie. the National Park).     You'd think the place was inhabited by some endangered indigenous Amazonian tribe from some of the messages that that have come out about 'outsiders' coming in and bringing in the virus.

And then suddenly the tables turn when when hotels and shops are allowed to re-open. 

In reply to mike123:

You think most people who live here welcome you ??? 

Thats the First time i ever heard you have to buy coffe or beer to be allowed in the mountains!?

Last I heard nobody OWNS the mountains!?

In reply to Monkeysee:

Calm down, calm down, Mr Monkeysee! Are you sitting comfortably? Because you've been poorly informed by the man who told you that nobody OWNS the mountains (did they actually shout the word 'owns' at you?). All of those mountains - even the little ones - are actually owned by someone. Cheer up though - you don't have to really buy coffee (or even beer if you're old enough) to go there.

In reply to rich5813:

Dont be daft - thats a Protected Characteristic of Northeners in general - just remember in penny pinching terms its:

Southerners<Red Rose<Thistle<White Rose.

(As ever, no mention for Daff's)

In reply to mike123:

I see it as a fairly disastrous mission failure if I go to the Lakes and end up in a cafe or a shop!

Happy to spend money on beer and sometimes a meal in the pub after a good day out on the hill or climbing though.

In reply to girlymonkey:

And that's all completely fine of course.

Many people come to the Lakes for more than a day though, nothing wrong with that either. Except that more and more are arriving with their cheap tents for a 'wild camp' that's often close to the road, even close to a campsite (this happened a few days back at Wasdale Green and there was space at the campsite). When leaving the people go but don't bother to take their tents and rubbish. It is now happening all over the Lakes. I witnessed it yet again today, 3 or 4 medium sized tents and chairs dumped at the roadside a couple of miles outside Coniston.

The number of vans/motorhomes now parking up in more isolated spots has also increased significantly. Driving over to Wasdale from Ambleside on Tuesday of this week, every tiny lay-by from Wrynose to Wasdale Head had at least one van parked up overnighting. Some may have toilet facilities, some may not. Some may be careful, some may not. But all of them made the place look somewhat less serene and picturesque. Only a few years back it would have been may one van, two max. Now it's dozens. There are plenty of campsites to cater for these visitors and offer facilities, often for a very reasonable fee.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Depends if you give the local minimum-wage shop worker coronavirus, I guess... If not, sure, why not. Tourists buying stuff was doing wonders before, why not try the same thing again and see if we get a different result?

In reply to Lankyman:

Ah dear. It might be the beer, but you had me rolling on the floor.

In reply to Dr.S at work:

Nail on the head. 

We were hassled in Paris  so much at the Place du Tertre by the pavement artists that we eventually agreed to have a drawing of my wife done, all the time saying we wouldn't buy it at a silly price if it didn't suit.

The bloke did a fair job - it looked a lot more like Frida  from Abba than my wife - but we agreed to buy it. 

I don't normally count myself good at haggling but by the time i'd got him down to an agreeable price he said
"Merde! Are you from Scotland?"

"No. mate: I'm from Yorkshire......"

In reply to mike123:

I’m going to go ahead and spoil all the fun.... this thread has so many people stating absolutes: residents of lakes think this or southerners think that, you must spend money here or you can’t tell me what to do...

I think we can all accept that if you are able help out others by spending a little money that that would probably be very welcome. But if that’s not right for you, then the vast majority of Cumbrians will still just fancy a good old chat about your day in the hills, and I say that as one of those Cumbrians. 

In reply to Lankyman:

That sort of language used towards those living in the southern counties is so wrong, and pretty disappointing to see on a website such as UKC, which I'd always thought frequented by intelligent educated people.

The correct term to use is of course "shandy drinking soft southern bastards".

In reply to C Witter:

Yes, if everyone who has money to spend doesn't spend it on anything but essentials we'll be out of this mess in no time at all! 

In reply to C Witter:

If we don't spend money in that shop, the worker on minimum wage becomes a claimant on the dole.

What can individuals do? One power they have is to choose where and when to spend their spare cash. (And every 5 years we can vote, sadly for the foreseeable future we'll get Tory governments 😢)

In reply to Route Adjuster:

National parks are also incredibly inefficient, they are all stand alone, have their own bosses, hq buildings, cafe systems, sourcing of equipment and shop stock, hr, accounting etc.. even things like their planning departments should be entirely incorporated within normal council offices, where they are already accustomed to dealing with additional regulations of things like AONB, grade 1 listed buildings and conservation areas.   But because of some dreamy vision of rural access and a love of purple mono culture fells no one cares to reform them. 

In reply to Andy Gamisou:

Please accept my humble apologies - shouldn't  it be 'Southern' though so as to remain respectful?

In reply to mgce25c:

And that is what I have always found in all the numerous and regular visits to the beautiful county. Very friendly people.

My accent is absolutely "southern", but I am not a shandy drinker (that feels like it should be a dodgy euphemism!) and find I have a very similar outlook on many things when I chat to the locals.  Their challenges, reliance on tourism, and being overlooked by central government when the pots of cash for investment are being dished out are very familiar. But then they (we) do live in lovely places!

In reply to all: thank you for replying and pretty much being reasonable . I posted the Op having just read and considered adding to the thread about first time in the lakes, and was kind of suprised by the dislikes to the reply that said please considered speanding a bit of money . I have a few friends/ people I ve climbed with who are in a real finacial  hole due to there being no tourists for a few months and I had just been speaking to one of them who thinks his business won't survive . 

  I've just taken the time to have a read of what people think and I'm pretty sure  to a large extent have changed my mind as a result. I really didn't mean " don't come"  but that s what I said and I was wrong . I can really see why people would be annoyed by having , as one person said a toll extracted and also agree with the sentiment that " I don't need to feel welcome" , I would have said the same many years ago . Of course this place belongs to no one and we should all be free to wander at will ( apart from the people who leave cheap tents and chuck used portable BBQ into crummock. ) for many years as youngster I came climbing to the lakes and would barely spend a bean other than in needless ports as I built a rack. The whole north south was a silly comment and is really not what I think , again I shouldn't have put that and I did say so quiet soon afterwards.  

As a climber There are many advantages of living in an area that is a popular destination . We have a wall in keswick that is as good if not better than many in large cities . We have one of the best climbing shops in the country . As a result of all this one or both of these might shut but to use a much over used phrase , these really are first world problems .  

What I think I meant was this .

Many people living in tourist towns and areas are having a hard time of it , no more or less so than the people living in a small ex mining town in the midlands , but a hard time  just the same .  Buying a coffee ,a pint or a rock 4 , ( walnuts are better ) , a rab  jacket or whatever that you might not  otherwise have done isn't going to solve anything but it might just help to keep a business afloat that employs a couple of people and also supports several other small business and so on  .

If you really don't give a f&&k about other people , wether they be a homeless man under a bridge in Wigan or a freelance outdoor instructor who can't pay his  electric bill, then no amount of drivel on here in going to change that. But I really like to think that most people do. 

In reply to mike123:

What people do when they visit a part of the country is their own business. The majority of people are very aware of how hard it currently is for virtually everyone and are sensitive to that. Coming out with this sort of nonsense about people from "somewhere down south" shopping at "eye watering" supermarkets and having no regard for anyone else is the type of self-indulgent, lazy, pathetic stereotyping that really doesn't do anyone any favours at this difficult time (including the community you are claiming to represent).

In reply to mike123:

Before the world stopped turning, I visited the Lakes regularly.  I go there to walk and climb, and I don't want to waste at least half a morning going shopping.  Nevertheless, I was aware that apart from a few pints and the occasional pub meal I don't make much of a contribution to the local economy, so for one trip I decided to do my bit and buy my provisions when I got there. I arrived in Keswick at about 8:45 to discover that Booths shut at 9pm. I had only a few minutes to dash around an unfamiliar supermarket, where I didn't know the layout or product range.  If I lived a little further away, or if I had met the usual delays on the M6, I would have been stuffed.  It's not a chance I want to take, and so I stock up at home before I leave.

I don't owe the inhabitants of the Lake District, or anywhere else for that matter, a living.  Nevertheless I'm happy to spend money on things I want or need.  If a local shop can provide me with that without inconveniencing me I'll gladly give them my business. However if they want visitors' business then they have to be alive to their needs.  I'm not going to compromise my plans for the weekend simply to put some money in the local economy.

If they want visitors to buy their provisions, they need to stay open late on a Friday night, when most of them arrive.  No doubt Booths have decided that isn't economic for them - fine, that's a commercial decision, but don't then criticise me for doing my shopping at home.

In reply to thepodge:

And the Llyn even more so. Abersock is a ghost town after September.

In reply to mike123:

I'm still not sure you get it. Not everyone outside of Cumbria is well off. We all still have to make decisions every day about what we can and cannot afford to buy. I wish I had enough money to buy a new jacket I don't need to support a random shop, but who does? 

In reply to mike123:

There's a bit of moral pickle here for me and your request.

I hugely respect local communities and want to help them as much as possible, like for example i normally drive past several large supermarkets on the way to my destination, where the product range and pricing would be as good as it gets, but i hold on to buy whatever i need at the local shops. And by that i mean proper local shops, like i avoid texco express, sainsburys and other chains or large establishments when out and about, and use village shops, as well doing the same for coffees, etc.

I beileve these little family owned businesses are the soul of the rural communities and would hate for them to die, and for all towns to go the way of the high streets. Also i believe that by using the services provided by the local communities and help them thrive financially it helps staunch the youth exodus into the cities to an extent.

That said, in the last few months it was made very clear to me that as a Southernern city dweller i am not welcomed. I am a disease ridden one man apocalypse that will kill your granny if i drive within 500m of her house in my way to the hills, and once there my breath carrying viruses will waft down from the felltops to kill the whole of the farming community. It seems that even though you did pretty weel at infecting each other it is still my fault that you could not follow simple rules. Having tyres slashed and being shouted at and insultd seems a reasonable way to prevent that. You just want me to come, give you my money, and f*ck off down South to wherever i came from, i get it.

This comes hot on the heels of that other recent event where, as an European citizen who is not wealthy or highly qualified, it was also made clear that i am not welcomed, with the owner of Needle Sports which you name check being a strong vocal campainger and Cumbrian residents by and large voting overwhelmingly for it.

With that in mind, i believe the ethical and moral thing for me to do is to respect the wishes of the locals, and so not intrude where i'm not welcomed. That i'm afarid isn't compatible with spending money in the local community, so my course of action wil be to load up the car with everything i need in London, a place where i have always been welcomed, and then go enjoy the hillls without forcing my diseased European city dweller southerner self onto the local communities which don't want me there.

I wish you good fortune with the future you have chosen to walk and truly hope you think the consequiences are still worth it. And if things get really bad for you out there just to let you know that in the cities down South we welcome everybody wherever they are from and won't be keying your car or slashing your tyres just because you ain't from round 'ere.

Best regards

In reply to Removed Usercapoap:

Very much so, its why we often go at the back end of the school hols to Criccieth, slightly less trendy, quieter season, cheaper and we're also rubbish at being prepared so end up eating out a lot hence sticking something back into the community. 

Back in my mountain biking days we used to visit BPW by Merthyr a lot and everyone would want to stay in the out of town chain hotel and go to the out of town chain pub after eating in the out of town chain restaurant... because the town was rundown. Perhaps if people spent money in the independent shops in town then it wouldn't be so bad. 

In reply to mike123:

I spent my money locally ( Merseyside) I do not spend any monies outside my area. Wales, Lakes. Peak district I support local business only. I climb in all these areas without contributing to the local economy. Keep it local I say.

In reply to Lankyman:

Owned by someone   

Good one that 😂 

Someone owns each mountain 😂

That's tickled me that has 😂 

In reply to mike123:

I have a lot of sympathy with the sentiment of your post and with what Route Adjuster said, that was a really good post. I will confess that I drove up to Gouther for a boulder yesterday and only stopped for a coffee on the way home at a motorway service station. Next time I will stop in Shap instead.

However I do think that at the moment the Lake district community (in which I include organisations such was the council, local police and mountain rescue as well as residents) has managed to build a lot of bad blood with people from other parts of the country through the period immediately post lockdown when they attempted to persuade everyone to stay away.  I was frankly angered at times by the nimby ist attitude of a lot of what was written, by responsible organisations rather than just nutters on social media. It was unbelievably arrogant and entitled.  The Lakes stood out like a sore thumb against the example of the Peak where people were welcomed back in the realisation they had been stuck in an inner city for weeks, even before any local shops were opened. I think this is the source of a lot of the negative replies you have received and it may take a while to dissipate.

In reply to Si dH:

Great response, opens up discussion rather than shutting it down with opinion. I think the early messages of stay away were due to two main factors, the first being the relatively high local infection rates  (and the anxiety that was causing),  the second was that no public facilities were actually open, specifically no public toilets. Once things started opening up a couple of weeks later the messages changed too and people are now back in the Lakes.

I appreciate that living in a large town or city must have been challenging during the lockdown and can see how the message to stay away might have caused some anger and frustration with those people who appreciate the outdoors, I guess the message could have been clearer and stressed that you will be all welcomed back,  just not immediately. Now we seem to be passed the peak of the problems the lake district is well and truly open for business and people are coming back in their droves.

Hopefully this whole experience will teach us all something about what we value in life, the roles and jobs that are genuinely important (certainly not the ones with the biggest salaries),  the open spaces that we need and appreciate, the importance of being safe and healthy and being patient when we can't have what we want immediately and being content to wait a little if necessary.

In reply to Si dH:

Exactly - they don't want the tourists busying the place up and possibly infecting people, but they do want the money that comes with it.

And anyway, this is a climbing forum, maybe I'm out of date, but the spirit of climbing has been sleeping in road sheds, or mountain huts, eating 5 day old sandwiches and sharing a flask of lukewarm tea. A good trip is a cheap trip!

In reply to Route Adjuster:

The message was always that - but it seemed like the locals were holding the countryside to ransom or were the arbitrators of who could enjoy it or not. A much better message would have been 'be prepared for no shops and loos to be open etc'

In reply to cp123:

Climbers really aren't that big a contributor to tourist areas compared with other tourists.  At least we probably aren't a net liability to an area, unlike the thieving "scallywag glory days".

In reply to Monkeysee:

They errr... Do?

Or atleast, they are owned by an entity of some kind. Just like every inch of this country is owned by someone or something. 

In reply to Monkeysee:

Do you honestly believe that no-one owns the mountains? Have you actually checked this out? Please let me know of any hill or mountain you know of which isn't owned by a person, an organisation (eg an estate, the National Trust, John Muir Trust etc) or the farmer(s) who graze it.

In reply to cp123:

The issues arise in most tourist areas, whether that's the lakes or Cornwall is that there are two sides to the local population.

Some locals are dependent on tourism for their livelihoods and so are keen on working towards a return of tourists, whilst others have no dependence on tourists and only see them as a nuisance whatever the circumstances are. Additionally a reasonable share of the second group are likely to be retirees and so feel more vulnerable to potential infection from visitors.

In different areas one of the above groups will be the most vocal, or get the most media coverage due to either having a spokesperson who gets a bit of traction because it fits the media agenda at any given time or because there is a great soundbite like "we're going to blockade the A roads" even though it's not representative of the whole local population.

Half the lakes locals want tourists back and the other half never want them back.

In reply to Nempnett Thrubwell:

As a southerner originally from deep south east. If I rock up and unload Aldi shopping Is that better or worse? :/

heading up for the first time for 3 days and this thread makes it seem like a fairly hostile place if your not a local lol

In reply to cp123:

Judging by the figures, it's more likely that visitors to the Lakes would be infected by the locals rather than the other way around.

Yet another reason to keep both ourselves (and our money) away from those diseased Cumbrians.

(And the same goes for Anglesey !)