/ Stanage Parking Enforcement

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cragtyke 13 Mar 2020

Just to let folk know that quite a few cars and vans got ticketed this afternoon in the Stanage plantation car park.

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dontfollowme 13 Mar 2020
In reply to cragtyke:

Is the ticket machine cash only or does it take card?

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In reply to dontfollowme:

90% sure it's cash only

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cragtyke 14 Mar 2020
In reply to dontfollowme:

Plantation (Hollin Bank) is cash only, unlike Suprise View which is card only!   See:

https://www.peakdistrict.gov.uk/visiting/parking/parking-locations

Annual permits are £40 for use in all 18 of the pay and display ones.

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kevin stephens 14 Mar 2020
In reply to cragtyke: the £40 a year seems good value

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teh_mark 16 Mar 2020
In reply to cragtyke:

While I'm not suggesting that enforcement is wrong, is this not just going to encourage even more people to park on the verge all along the road outside the car park as already happens?

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cragtyke 16 Mar 2020
In reply to teh_mark:

Hopefully it will encourage people to pay, the dickheads will still do as dickheads do.

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Simon Caldwell 18 Mar 2020
In reply to teh_mark:

There's probably no space for many more, the verges are usually completely full when the car park is half empty

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Tom V 18 Mar 2020
In reply to cragtyke:

Looks like you've hit the nail on the head.

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SteveX 18 Mar 2020
In reply to cragtyke:

I have been to surprise view and the plantation with climbers who insisted the parking charges are une nforceable and seemed to think they had a moral duty not to pay.

Surprised me, but hey what do I know.

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Michael Hood 18 Mar 2020
In reply to cragtyke:

I think the acceptance of charges would be much higher if 1. they gave change, or 2. you could use a card, and (most importantly) 3. the range of charges for different lengths of stay was more appropriate.

No problem if you're going to be there a whole day, but sometimes it's annoying to spend that much for a quick fix.

Also, some kind of demonstration that parking income was being used to help the locality rather than propping up the salaries of executives of a largely ineffective organisation.

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Coel Hellier 18 Mar 2020
In reply to cragtyke:

> Annual permits are £40 for use in all 18 of the pay and display ones.

It would be good if there were an annual permit that covered all the Peak District car parks (Peak Park plus NT etc), so Plantation and Surprise View and Curbar Gap and Birchen and Milller's Dale etc.

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cragtyke 18 Mar 2020
In reply to SteveX:

> I have been to surprise view and the plantation with climbers who insisted the parking charges are une nforceable and seemed to think they had a moral duty not to pay.

That's what I always thought, but the tickets that were issued were Penalty Charge Notices by Parksmarter on behalf of Derbyshire County Council as the Enforcement Authority, and as far as I can tell they are legally enforceable.

If anyone knows otherwise , please let us know.

I'm happy to pay £25 for about 10 years of misuse!

Edit :https://www.peakdistrict.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0033/87747/off-street-parking-order-2018.pdf

looks like this was introduced on 1st Jan 2019.

Post edited at 15:41
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cragtyke 18 Mar 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

Looking at the application form, no registration number is required, so presumably it could be used by the owner (!) in whichever vehicle they were travelling in, which gives regular partners the opportunity to share costs etc.

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Graeme Hammond 18 Mar 2020
In reply to Coel Hellier:

> It would be good if there were an annual permit that covered all the Peak District car parks (Peak Park plus NT etc), so Plantation and Surprise View and Curbar Gap and Birchen and Milller's Dale etc.

Great idea but unfortunately probably never going to happen as they are all owned by different people and I think getting an agreement over who would get what share would be difficult. Would be also great to get a pass that covered the different walls in Sheffield together but I think there would be similar problems.  

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Adam Long 19 Mar 2020
In reply to SteveX:

> I have been to surprise view and the plantation with climbers who insisted the parking charges are unenforceable and seemed to think they had a moral duty not to pay.

This was true (except the moral duty nonsense) up until about 18 months ago when the Peak Park changed the byelaws allowing them to enforce charges.

However the parking on the verge outside remains perfectly legal and free, so inevitably it is now getting trashed.

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In reply to Adam Long:

> This was true (except the moral duty nonsense) up until about 18 months ago when the Peak Park changed the byelaws allowing them to enforce charges.

> However the parking on the verge outside remains perfectly legal and free, so inevitably it is now getting trashed.

The verges at a Curbar Gap are trashed too. Time to turn those roads into clear ways with no parking, like around Pen y Pass.

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SteveX 19 Mar 2020
In reply to Adam Long:

> This was true (except the moral duty nonsense) 

I suspect that they saw it in the view of hard won rights to access being eroded, and these people are both activists within the climbing world, one a guidebook writer and one within the BMC, so though I was not in total agreement with their viewpoint I did respect it and would not have dismissed it as nonsense.

 

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Dan Arkle 19 Mar 2020
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

> The verges at a Curbar Gap are trashed too. Time to turn those roads into clear ways with no parking, like around Pen y Pass.

I strongly disagree. 

The parking capacity just isn't there for sunny weekends and Bank Holidays. 

These roads aren't used by massive amounts of through traffic, so I think it's unreasonable to ban parking at these times. 

I agree that it is chaos when it's busy now, but this can be easily resolved with a few short sections of double yellow lines - just 50m of these either side of the car park would move the 'overflow' parking to the straight section towards Gardoms. And a few other short sections to ensure there are always places to pass. 

Post edited at 11:31
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Adam Long 19 Mar 2020
In reply to SteveX:

> I suspect that they saw it in the view of hard won rights to access being eroded, and these people are both activists within the climbing world, one a guidebook writer and one within the BMC,

Hmm, I might agree that there was no duty to pay on moral grounds, but to say a moral duty not to pay seems a bit strong.

>> The verges at a Curbar Gap are trashed too. Time to turn those roads into clear ways with no parking, like around Pen y Pass.

> I strongly disagree.

Agree with Dan, twenty years there was ample safe, sustainable overflow parking all over the eastern edges which was able to soak up the huge increases in parking on sunny weekends perfectly safely while being invisible the rest of the year. Almost all has been steadily removed by the introduction of bunds and clearways, only making the problem worse.

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ianstevens 19 Mar 2020
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

> The verges at a Curbar Gap are trashed too. Time to turn those roads into clear ways with no parking, like around Pen y Pass.

Clearly you've not driven round there in the summer...

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In reply to ianstevens:

> Clearly you've not driven round there in the summer...

I used to live out there. It’s a lack of consistent enforcement, which is a surprise as it bags loads of money when they can be bothered

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Tom V 19 Mar 2020
In reply to Adam Long:

Judging by the state of the countryside it looks like there's a lot of householders and self employed craftsmen  who feel they have a moral duty not to pay at waste disposal sites.

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Baz P 24 Mar 2020
In reply to Tom V:

If councils didn’t charge at the waste disposal sites then there would be a lot less fly tipping. It costs councils more to remove fly tipping than the get from charges.

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ianstevens 24 Mar 2020
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

> I used to live out there. It’s a lack of consistent enforcement, which is a surprise as it bags loads of money when they can be bothered

Yeah, the lack of enforcement at Pen y Pass has always baffled me. Easy to score 100+ tickets a day at £40(?) a pop - lots of money for a cash-strapped Gwynedd council. 

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Tom V 24 Mar 2020
In reply to Baz P:

That's an appalling attempt at justification but unfortunately lots of people use it as an excuse for their disgusting anti-social behaviour. Every cowboy trader in the land who dumps his load of conifers or old plaster in a layby trots out the same old tainted logic.  

Before you decide to set up shop as a handyman gardner, roofer, house renovator or whatever you should be fully aware that the cost of waste disposal is something that you need to factor into your pricing.

If you're a private householder who happens to use a van for day to day work but need to dispose of your own genuine household rubbish and have problems at a site, you can get a permit allowing a certain number of trips a year.

Elsewhere on the virus thread people are being urged to be non-judgemental. As far as fly-tipping is concerned, bollocks to that. People who dump their rubbish all over the place  are bastards , every last one of them. If you are lucky enough to have a small piece of open space near you for your limited amount of exercise you can bet that they've been there first, tipping their shit and giving the finger to the rest of us.

Post edited at 09:11
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Baz P 29 Mar 2020
In reply to Tom V:

I fail to see how you construed my post as justifying fly tipping.

Nearly all fly tipping is done by businesses who either don’t want to get a business licence, or, fly tip because the local council tip is closed. These people are all scroats who think that by fly tipping they have put another £100 on their job or into their commercial business. It may be an excuse but it is a profitable excuse.

The only way we are going to curb this (no pun intended) is to get a lot more stringent than a £30 fine or 14 days to get a licence then a £300 fine. Even when taken to court, which councils are reluctant to do, they plead ignorance to the magistrate, “I didn’t have enough to fill a skip and didn’t know where to take it”. Actual excuse.

I believe that in Germany it’s a £1000 on the spot fine, no excuses.

So, once again, I’m telling it like it is, not excusing it.

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Tom V 29 Mar 2020
In reply to Baz P:

Apologies for misunderstanding the tone of your opening sentence.

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Baz P 30 Mar 2020
In reply to Tom V:

No problem. Re reading my post I can see how you would think that I was a fly tipper trying to justify my actions. A problem with faceless posts I think. 
 

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