UKC

Why is it "The Peak" not "The Peaks"

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 JAT557 30 Oct 2021

To settle a debate amongst some friends. Why is the peak called "the peak"? 

19
 Lankyman 30 Oct 2021
In reply to JAT557:

> To settle a debate amongst some friends. Why is the peak called "the peak"? 

The Britons called it The Pook but the Angles couldn't pronounce 'oo' sounds very easily.

1
In reply to JAT557:

To make shooting fish in a barrel on ukc even easier? 

1
 SFM 30 Oct 2021
In reply to JAT557:

The voting from Norvege….. 0.1/10

In reply to JAT557:

It is short for The Peak District, so The Peaks District wouldn't be grammatically correct.

4
 Cake 30 Oct 2021
In reply to phizz4:

Clearly, that begs a question about The Lakes

2
OP JAT557 30 Oct 2021
In reply to phizz4:

Thanks all for your replies. This makes complete sense, but why isn't 'The Lake District' referred to as 'The Lake' then?

1
 kevin stephens 30 Oct 2021
In reply to JAT557:The Peak District is divided into the Dark Peak and the White Peak, certainly from a rock climbing viewpoint. So “The Peaks” is correct . 

As mentioned above the  English Lake District is a district of Lakes hence it is often abbreviated to “The Lakes”. There’s more than one peak in the Peak District 

Post edited at 20:28
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 Dave B 30 Oct 2021
In reply to phizz4:

Is it a contraction or an alternative shorter description? 

The Mountain District... The mountains

The river district... The rivers... 

The shopping district... The shops.. 

Post edited at 20:29
3
In reply to JAT557:

From memory, there is only one peak shaped lump, win hill?

Of course it wouldn't be a way for the cogniscenti to look down their noses at others would it? 

4
In reply to JAT557:

From the PDNP website:

The name ‘Peak’ does not in fact relate to the region’s uplands, but is thought to derive from the Pecsaetan, an Anglo-Saxon tribe which settled in the area.

Peaks is just plain wrong

Hasn't Gordon Stainforth written a  book about this or something?

2
 summo 30 Oct 2021
In reply to kevin stephens:

> As mentioned above the  English Lake District is a district of Lakes hence it is often abbreviated to “The Lakes”. There’s more than one peak in the Peak District 

There's surprisingly few lakes in the lakes, mainly meres and waters.

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 kevin stephens 30 Oct 2021
In reply to summo: tell me something I don’t know! If you want to be pedantic are there actually any peaks in the Peak District? As opposed to bits of moorland or piles of stones that are only marginally higher than the surrounding moorland or piles of stones?

12
 summo 30 Oct 2021
In reply to kevin stephens:

> tell me something I don’t know! If you want to be pedantic are there actually any peaks in the Peak District? As opposed to bits of moorland or piles of stones that are only marginally higher than the surrounding moorland or piles of stones?

Two. White and dark peak, some debate even high peak, so three. Either way, it should be called the peaks, or peak district.

28
 Lankyman 30 Oct 2021
In reply to Presley Whippet:

> From memory, there is only one peak shaped lump, win hill?

More peaked peaks in the Peak: Chrome and Parkhouse Hills, Shutlingsloe, Thorpe Cloud, Hen Cloud. Probably others.

In reply to summo:

IT'S NOTHING TO DO WITH PEAKS!!!! It's the bloomin anglo saxons, it's even on wikipedia!

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 summo 30 Oct 2021
In reply to ebdon:

> IT'S NOTHING TO DO WITH PEAKS!!!! It's the bloomin anglo saxons, it's even on wikipedia!

Are you peaking?

So, yes, The Pecsætan (Old English: Pēcsǣtan; singular Pēcsǣta, literally "Peak-dweller"),[1] also called Peaklanders or Peakrills in modern English, were an Anglo-Saxon tribe who inhabited the central and northern parts of the Peak District area in England

peak dwellers, peak the word has the same origins as pike, as in summit or top. So they were hill top dwellers. If you go to places like Carl fort along from Higgar Tor there are still the rock outlines of one of their encampments. 

The Peaks!!

13

In reply 

I think I've peaked....

Surely though its named after the tribe not where they lived? Either way place names have nothing to do with what they logically should be (not that is even relevant I this case!) If it it was this would be the grassy moorland roundy hills national park, which doesn't have the same ring.

 Moacs 30 Oct 2021
In reply to ebdon:

> In reply 

> I think I've peaked....

or been piqued

 summo 30 Oct 2021
In reply to ebdon:

Don't know, chicken and egg, tribe named because they lived among peaks, or hills named as peaks because of those who dwelled among them. 

There is common connection of names peak and pike in the uplands but you can't imagine in that era much travel between regions. 

4
In reply to JAT557:

I live in Froggatt and hear loads of other locals who were born and raised here call it ‘the Peaks’. We have a living, changing language

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 streapadair 30 Oct 2021
In reply to JAT557:

Al Evans, thou shouldst have been living at this hour.

In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

I've heard loads of people the country over say 'pacifically' when trying to be less general about something — but I'm not about to start copying them.

2
In reply to summo:

> There's surprisingly few lakes in the lakes, mainly meres and waters.

Classic pub quiz question. There's only one, if you go full pedant.

 Trangia 30 Oct 2021
In reply to streapadair:

> Al Evans, thou shouldst have been living at this hour.

Plus 1! He will be turning in his grave!

 DerwentDiluted 30 Oct 2021
In reply to JAT557:

Are we at peak peaks pique yet?

 Trangia 30 Oct 2021
In reply to Dave B:

> Is it a contraction...?

Well, "The Downs" certainly is, because they most certainly go up not down.....

In reply to DerwentDiluted:

I grew up in the area and didn't hear it called "the Peak" until I left the area and started climbing. Perhaps it's a climber thing...

1
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

Same in Doncaster.  Everyone I know has always called it The Peaks (I’m now over 50, so it’s been a while).  It’s only since being on UKC that I realised some people called it The Peak.  

1
 profitofdoom 30 Oct 2021
In reply to DerwentDiluted:

> Are we at peak peaks pique yet?

I'll have a peek and let you know 

In reply to JAT557:

Now The Dales.....

 Lankyman 31 Oct 2021
In reply to Bulls Crack:

> Now The Dales.....

Don't start! There actually are 'dales' in the Dales (and lakes in the Lakes).

4
In reply to JAT557:

I suspect that most people who are calling it "The Peaks" are doing so in the belief that it is because there are multiple summits.  They are most definitely mistaken.  As others have said it's named after a tribe that lived there.

Those who claim it is because there is a Dark Peak and a White Peak may have a case, at least grammatically. 

I'm 73 and lived and worked around Sheffield for  30 years, everyone I know has always called it The Peak.

Al

2
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator  UKC Supporter 31 Oct 2021
In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:

> I'm 73 and lived and worked around Sheffield for  30 years, everyone I know has always called it The Peak.

> Al

I have been climbing in T’Peak as Dave Gregory used to call it for 50+ years and never heard it called anything other until ‘the Peaks’ nonsense started on here.

Odd how people really don’t like to be told they are wrong 😀

Chris

5
 thepodge 31 Oct 2021
In reply to JAT557:

Multiple fish = fish

Multiple sheep = sheep 

Multiple Yorkshire = Yorkshire

Multiple Peak* = Peak 

*White / Dark not pointy hills

If anything it should be The Peak's (but never The Peaks) if we're arguing it belongs to a group. 

9
In reply to tehmarks:

> I've heard loads of people the country over say 'pacifically' when trying to be less general about something — but I'm not about to start copying them.

Neither am I, or start saying ‘could of’ instead of ‘could have’ however language is evolving at a far greater rate than ever. When the written word was relatively constrained to people who could ‘write’, then evolution was on a glacial timescale. However, the internet and texting has changed all that, and I suspect there’s little to be done about it.

1
In reply to afx22:

> Same in Doncaster.  Everyone I know has always called it The Peaks (I’m now over 50, so it’s been a while).  It’s only since being on UKC that I realised some people called it The Peak.  

Worth stopping in for a pint in The Pride of the Peaks in New Mills 😂

1
 RobAJones 31 Oct 2021
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

>  There's only one, if you go full pedant.

But with climate change perhaps not for long?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cumbria-59092200

 carl dawson 31 Oct 2021

In the North (Oldham,Saddleworth, ex-West Riding of Yorkshire etc), it has always been “goin’ climbin’ int’Peak”. Although it’s increasingly common, newcomers seem to have come up with something that just sounds so wrong.

3

I've nothing against the evolution of language but this is more of a case of people not understanding the entomology and thinking its somthing to do with the number of peaks and just getting it plain wrong. 

3
 Iain Thow 31 Oct 2021
In reply to ebdon:

I'm with you on "Peak", but as a fully fledged pedant can't resist pointing out that entomology is the study of insects. Etymology is the study of the evolution of words😁

Post edited at 09:48
In reply to Iain Thow:

Bugger, hoisted by my own petard!

In reply to JAT557:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecsaetan

Peak is in the singular because it's named after the people/tribes who lived there not [directly] the many hills

I nearly agreed with summo post until he added that erroneous "s" as the last letter of the post

Post edited at 09:57
 flowerpot 31 Oct 2021
In reply to CantClimbTom:

So... If I ever go to London village consisting of North central south east any the city of...should I say ... I will be visiting the London's next week and would like advice on most adventurous climbing wall ? Please...

5
 artif 31 Oct 2021
In reply to JAT557:

> To settle a debate amongst some friends. Why is the peak called "the peak"? 

Because Yorkshire folk are so tight, they won't even give away an "s" for free 

Post edited at 10:37
In reply to RobAJones:

> But with climate change perhaps not for long?

Maybe there'll still only be one (very large) lake.

1
 Ratfeeder 31 Oct 2021
In reply to summo:

> There's surprisingly few lakes in the lakes, mainly meres and waters.

"There's only one lake in the Lake District" - that's a logical sleight of hand confusing established names with warranted descriptions. All the "waters" and "meres" of the LD warrant the description "lake" - they are all lakes. But only one happens to have the established name "Lake" (Bassenthwaite). "Mere" and "water" (in the Cumbrian context) are simply alternative words for "lake", i.e. meaning the same thing. So the adage should be "There's only one lake in the Lake District actually named "Lake".".

Post edited at 10:52
In reply to Ratfeeder:

Of course, it's obviously a trick question. But it's still surprising how often one sees references to Lake Windermere. On the same tack, I seem to remember there's an official (Cumbria County Council?) road sign just outside Keswick welcoming visitors to Borrowdale Valley.

1
In reply to artif:

> Because Yorkshire folk are so tight, they won't even give away an "s" for free 

Now that is insulting "Peak" is Derbyshire

 Ratfeeder 31 Oct 2021
In reply to Rog Wilko:

> Of course, it's obviously a trick question. But it's still surprising how often one sees references to Lake Windermere. On the same tack, I seem to remember there's an official (Cumbria County Council?) road sign just outside Keswick welcoming visitors to Borrowdale Valley.

Yes that's really irritating. Such references are symptomatic of a kind of semantic blindness. Official (and local!) bodies like CCC should know better.

 summo 31 Oct 2021
In reply to Ratfeeder:

> "There's only one lake in the Lake District" - that's a logical sleight of hand confusing established names with warranted descriptions. All the "waters" and "meres" of the LD warrant the description "lake" - they are all lakes. But only one happens to have the established name "Lake" (Bassenthwaite). "Mere" and "water" (in the Cumbrian context) are simply alternative words for "lake", i.e. meaning the same thing. So the adage should be "There's only one lake in the Lake District actually named "Lake".".

Or arguably many are man made reservoirs for either water supplies, or previously mining slushings.. but yes it's all a play on words.

 Fredt 31 Oct 2021
In reply to robert-hutton:

> Now that is insulting "Peak" is Derbyshire

Only some of it. 
 

Regarding the OP, when I was at school in the 50s and 60s, In my school atlases I was always fascinated by the blank area west of Sheffield with the mysterious label “The Peak”. There are no peaks to speak of, or name things after.

 Offwidth 31 Oct 2021
In reply to ebdon:

That's one of the funniest examples of Muphry's law I've ever seen. Be proud!

I'm  OK with the Peaks or the Peak. The ancient local tribe was named after peaks and as Paul says enough locals call it the Peaks for the alledged universal local versus outsidier argument to be clearly bs. "Climbing in't Peak" is a contraction ....."Climbing in't Lake would be a direct equivalent but sounds silly. Also a peak district is a district of peaks be it hills or people in a tribe.

Post edited at 13:54
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 Dave B 31 Oct 2021
In reply to Trangia:

Isn't that a contradiction?

In reply to Ratfeeder:

Is that any worse than Lake Windermere, or if you want historical precedent... River Avon

https://maverickphilosopher.typepad.com/.a/6a010535ce1cf6970c01bb09eec9d4970d-500wi

 RobAJones 31 Oct 2021
In reply to CantClimbTom:

I've always quite liked Torpenhow Hill and tend to ignore that some of the following is disputed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpenhow_Hill

 Tom Valentine 31 Oct 2021
In reply to carl dawson:

And yet, if you're walking up from the Clarence, "the Peak" starts at the Forty Row.

In reply to ebdon:

> I've nothing against the evolution of language but this is more of a case of people not understanding the entomology and thinking its somthing to do with the number of peaks and just getting it plain wrong. 

I can’t speak for anyone else but for me, it was as simple as everyone around me called it the The Peaks (sometimes “The Peaks, t’other side of Sheff”), so I did the same.  I’d not considered the meaning.

Post edited at 15:25
 Trangia 31 Oct 2021
In reply to Dave B:

Ha ha. Funny how your mind sees what it wants to see

In reply to Tom Valentine:

> And yet, if you're walking up from the Clarence, "the Peak" starts at the Forty Row.

Or ended at Hay Top when heading for a beer 

 Yanis Nayu 31 Oct 2021
In reply to ebdon:

The Peak’s District then?

1
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

At first I thought that was a genius compromise ending this massive rift in the climbing world once and for all but then I realized if I overheard anything using the term 'peaks' I would have to check if the s was possessive or plural whilst passively aggressively insinuating people are punters 😄

 wercat 01 Nov 2021
In reply to Rog Wilko:

but Windermere isn't right either!

"Chårra rubrá the Red Charre dictam in lacu Wenandermere Weltmorlandiæ captum"

to the OP,

luck it's not the Beaker People who lived there or you'd be going to the Beak

Post edited at 10:46
 Iamgregp 01 Nov 2021
In reply to JAT557:

If we're going to point out inconsistencies in the English language this is going to be a long old thread... 

 El Greyo 01 Nov 2021
In reply to phizz4:

> It is short for The Peak District, so The Peaks District wouldn't be grammatically correct.

This is where the confusion has come in. The Peak is not short for The Peak District. The Peak District is long for The Peak.

The area used to be known only as The Peak. The 'District' was added later, perhaps when the national park was formed.

I came across a reference to the 'Peake' in Samuel Pepys diary from 19th January 1663: '... and that was all that passed but my Lord did presently pack his lady into the country in Derbyshire, near the Peake; which is become a proverb at Court, to send a man’s wife to the Devil’s arse a’ Peake, when she vexes him.' (search for 'Peake' in http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1663/01/ ). So perhaps it should be Peake, but it shouldn't be Peaks.

OP JAT557 01 Nov 2021
In reply to JAT557:

Thanks all for your replies!

 Myr 01 Nov 2021
In reply to carl dawson:

> In the North (Oldham,Saddleworth, ex-West Riding of Yorkshire etc), it has always been “goin’ climbin’ int’Peak”.

This phrase ably demonstrates that those that call the Peak District 'The Peak' have a habit of incorrectly dropping letters from words.

6
 cragtyke 01 Nov 2021
In reply to Myr:

> This phrase ably demonstrates that those that call the Peak District 'The Peak' have a habit of incorrectly dropping letters from words.

They also usually have the ability to identify a prat when they come across one.

1
In reply to summo:

Only one lake in the Lake District and that is Bassentwaithe Lake all the others are either Mere's, Water's, Tarns or something else.

5
 Pedro50 01 Nov 2021
In reply to Paul Hy:

They're all fecking lakes except possibly the reservoirs.

1
In reply to JAT557:

Real world people say Peaks.

Computer people say Peak.

Real world people that have used a computer and change from Peaks to Peak suk dogs dix

16
In reply to Pedro50:

so a stream is a river then?

 Pedro50 01 Nov 2021
In reply to Paul Hy:

Yes of course.


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