/ Defacing Ama Dablam - Nirmal Purja not cool!!

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Adam Hill 15 Nov 2019
spenser 15 Nov 2019
In reply to Adam Hill:

The flag was put there temporarily as stated in one of the posts. Provided that the team carried it down after putting it in place I really don't see what the issue is?

Carry a flag up a mountain for a bit of national willy waving is a bit crass sure but if they take it down and don't leave any litter then live and let live...

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Adam Hill 15 Nov 2019
In reply to spenser:

Not sure Nepalis will see it in quite the same light as you. I imagine a 100m Stars and Stripes drapped off Scafell might raise eyebrows.

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MarkJH 15 Nov 2019
In reply to Adam Hill:

>  I imagine a 100m Stars and Stripes drapped off Scafell might raise eyebrows.

It might, but that doesn't mean it should.  The only reason that it would is if you have a particular attitude to the symbolism of a flag and nationalism in general.  I don't know whether that is a common attitude in Nepal.

People have been flying flags from mountains for as long as they have been climbing them.  I can't think of many cases where flying a flag was the reason for the climb.

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spenser 15 Nov 2019
In reply to Adam Hill:

If it didn't stop anyone from enjoying themselves, didn't cause any damage or leave any litter I would probably raise an eyebrow and carry on with my previous plan. If it did fail any of those tests then yes, I would take issue with it.

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john arran 15 Nov 2019
In reply to Adam Hill:

Were it to have been UK climbers and a Union Flag I would feel utterly ashamed.

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Adam Hill 15 Nov 2019
In reply to MarkJH:

> People have been flying flags from mountains for as long as they have been climbing them.  I can't think of many cases where flying a flag was the reason for the climb.

True,  but to consider this in a similar vein as the thousands of summit pics with climbers waving their nation's flag is simply disingenuous. How far would this behaviour have to go before you would stop condoning it?

> It might, but that doesn't mean it should.  The only reason that it would is if you have a particular attitude to the symbolism of a flag and nationalism in general.  I don't know whether that is a common attitude in Nepal.

The Nepalese are extremely nationalistic, almost to a fault and I can only imagine the reaction if this was an Indian flag.  For sure this flag will upset many folk, will prompt a reaction from The Nepal Mountaineering Association, a fine from various Ministries and condemnation in the local press. 

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Adam Hill 15 Nov 2019
In reply to spenser:

> If it didn't stop anyone from enjoying themselves, 

I imagine the residents of Pangboche and Tengboche upon looking up from their homes weren't too impressed. Also worth considering how the Nepalese view these mountains. It is their complete belief that various local deities inhabit the peaks. While some may scoff at this idea, and it seems these guys did, who are we too piss on another person's belief system for gratification of our ego.

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Tyler 15 Nov 2019
In reply to Adam Hill:

You have "imagined" two things in your last two posts. Do you have anything more tangible? It wasn't an Indian flag and I don't see how draping a flag is any worse than trampling about on the summit. You might be able to imagine some differences but it's a pretty esoteric philosophical distinction

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spenser 15 Nov 2019
In reply to Adam Hill:

And something written by them or from the Nepalese authorities reflecting this would be of value as they would be the ones taking issue with it, the blog post linked in the OP doesn't reference religious beliefs of the Nepalese.

Alan Arnette's pissing and moaning on the basis of minimal information adds nothing other than a bit of vitriol to this world, particularly when he is attacking the act from a Leave No Trace standpoint with no indication that they didn't just unfurl the flag, leave it for 15 minutes to get some photos and then pack it away and carry it down.

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Adam Hill 15 Nov 2019
In reply to Tyler:

Hey Tyler, I'm not here to argue with you and convince you of changing your mind, nor quibble over semantics.

If you believe that what they did was fine, then good on you. We have different views with regards respect, precedent, mountaineering and local sensibilities and that's cool as well.

Post edited at 12:23
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Tyler 15 Nov 2019
In reply to Adam Hill:

> We have different views with regards respect, precedent, mountaineering and local sensibilities and that's cool as well.

Until we hear what those local sensibilities on this are what you or I think about them is irrelevant.

Post edited at 12:32
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Adam Hill 15 Nov 2019
In reply to Tyler:

So having lived in Nepal for 18 years and run my business there for over 24 years, which in part requires me to guide folk in the Khumbu, I've been chatting this morning with my colleagues and staff, all or whom are Nepalese, several from the Khumbu and to a T they are not impressed. "No respect to Nepal" "God's will not be happy" is the general theme. So I think you can accept that this stunt will not be warmly received by Nepalis. 

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Tyler 15 Nov 2019
In reply to Adam Hill:

Then it seems you are well versed in what those local sensibilities are so I'll bow out here!

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hang_about 15 Nov 2019
In reply to Adam Hill:

It wan't a flag, it was a carefully disguised top-rope

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Planeandsimple 15 Nov 2019
In reply to Adam Hill:

In a country where the guys a national hero then I doubt it really matters. So long as he leaves no trace, which is part of his ethic. Better to do that than leave all your fixed lines in place, as other guides do....

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Iamgregp 15 Nov 2019
In reply to john arran:

Call it the Union Jack.  Just to annoy Breixty gammon-y types...

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felt 15 Nov 2019
In reply to Adam Hill:

Good job that Christo and Jeanne-Claude didn't have a job lot of flags

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CB 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Adam Hill:

So being there is not enough, why do they have to shout so loud ?

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Deadeye 29 Nov 2019
In reply to john arran:

> Were it to have been UK climbers and a Union Flag I would feel utterly ashamed.

Agreed. But if it's then removed it just makes them look silly and embarrassing rather than reprehensible.

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Damo 29 Nov 2019
Ardo 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Adam Hill:

Neither agreeing or disagreeing with your sentiment, but just reading the second paragraph illustrates the problem with 'reports of....'.

"By hanging one long red and another blue with white snow in between, it was designed to be the flag of Kuwait."

Only me that thought, hang on, I'm sure there's no blue in the Kuwaiti flag?

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