UKC

Hi all

I was wondering if some of you might be able to help me out with some advice... 

I have been looking into booking a trip to climb Mont Blanc for my sister's 30th. We have done a fair bit of climbing/hillwalking in this country but are now after something bigger.   

I have climbed for a long time on the Cornish sea cliffs but when it comes to this kind of thing I am pretty much an amateur, and a quick session on google has given me a great many options but nothing in the way of advice! 

I know there are a lot of folk on here with vast amounts of experience in the alps and was hoping some of you may be able to advise.

I have all the usual queries about keeping costs down etc, but basically any tips on  how to  have a cracking first trip would be very much appreciated! 

Many thanks   

*disclaimer - I've never climbed MB*  ...but as most things you'll find in the alps - keeping costs down are not easy if you haven't been before.  My advice would be to hire a guide who will guarantee space in the hut, and make the whole experience much more enjoyable (guide dependent of course) instead of saving a few pounds. 

I'm sure a load of people here can put forward some reliable guides, british or otherwise.

It really depends on the experience you want and how much time you can spend out there.

Guided-logistically easier, a lot more expensive. If you have limited time and plenty of money this is an option.

Unguided-Would probably mean going out for longer, trickier logistically in that you'll need to book huts, know about lifts etc. yourself. If you have plenty of time and limited funds, this is an option.

There are plenty of instructional books out there that cover the skills required to climb MB; Bruce Goodlad's 'Alpine Mountaineering' gets a good rep. It's possible to practice crevasse rescue techniques, taking/removing coils etc. at home. Additionally, get a friend who has done a few alpine seasons and get them to run you through a few things.

This should answer most of your questions:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/destinations/how_to_climb_mont_blanc_-_...

Many thanks for all the advice, have since been looking through some guiding firms, Jesus they are expensive! 

As someone new to alpinism, do you think going unguided is a viable/safe option? I am pretty good with navigation and have hillwalked and climbed a great deal in the UK's mountainous regions, however I'm aware that alpine climbing is substantially different from a quick romp up Snowdon! 

Great article thanks Mark

I think it would be a bit silly to be honest. It's very big and very high with lot of challenges you have never faced.

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Have you ever used crampons before? Ice axe? checked a snowpack for avalanche risk? know how to self-arrest? acclimatise properly? navigate in white-out conditions? rope up for glacier travel? rescue someone fallen in a crevasse?

Not trying to sound condescending, but these are only a small amount of things you should be proficient in before going off on your own, let alone taking your sister (presuming she has the same or less experience than you?), especially to a mountain over 4000m.

So no, I don't think it would be a safe option.

A good list of things you need to know. I would add:

Understanding the weather / forecast - what might seem ok in the morning can turn into a life and death situation in the afternoon.

Understanding the conditions - this is different to weather, i.e. is it too snowy / icy / dry (bad for rockfall on the Gouter route) / warm (snow not refreezing).

Timing and pacing - when to start, how long it will take, how fast to go. Not in the navigation skills sense but in terms of your plan for the day.

If you don’t have any winter climbing experience such that you don’t really know how to use crampons and an axe, you should at the very least consider some instruction in that area (could be up in Scotland). Otherwise you’re setting yourself up for trouble. The Gouter route isn’t particularly technical but, even so, it’s pretty exposed in places, crossing some steep slopes and following a fairly narrow ridge in places. If you slip or trip because you don’t know how to use crampons and don’t know how to self arrest, you may well be coming down in a helicopter - possibly in a bag.

Even with winter climbing experience, there’s still a lot to learn to transition to the Alps. Some of it you can pick up from books but it’s best to learn through practice. Best to go with experienced friends or get some instruction.

A guided week is not cheap but it will make it more likely that you will achieve your aim (or do a good alternative peak if MB is not feasible for some reason) and have a good time, plus you will learn some skills which you could use in future - as opposed to puntering around on your own and probably failing to get to the summit for one reason or another.

If you can, go for two weeks. More time to acclimatise and more chance of getting a good weather and conditions window. Again, a case where spending more money may be worth it because you’re more likely to achieve your aim.

I would go on one of the 10 day courses with an English company like Jagged Globe or Frost Guiding (www.frostguiding.co.uk) as just getting any old guide might not be such a holiday. If it is all too expensive I would revise your ambitions. 

Its been many moons however I have been to the top of MB unguided via the Gouter Route, and I'm still alive.

My main bits of advice would be to get as much Scottish Winter walking/Munro's under your belt as possible if you want to consider doing MB without a guide.

Doing your apprenticeship in Scotland, Wales or the Lakes if conditions permit, will teach you how to:

Map read in foul conditions

Keep a good pace in foul conditions

Get Hill Fit for the alps and have endurance to walk long days

Understand the type of kit required to stay warm and not overheat and sweat, or freeze because of that sweat

Using crampons + axe and how to arrest a fall down a steep slope

Being roped up while walking or scrambling in snow/mixed terrain

Stay focused, calm and motivated while in a white-out

You are basically paying a Guide to short-cut most of the above along with local knowledge and route finding that could take you weeks or longer than your trip will allow. Maybe even a couple of season's in the alps. A guide will also provide a safety-net of reining in your enthusiasm to reach the top when the conditions suggest you should not attempt to try for reasons beyond your skills or knowledge. However getting a few winters of Scotland under your belt will do the same.

I found that doing MB from the Gouter Route was practically the same as walking in a Scottish winter but with the added difficulty of altitude. Altitude can't really be simulated in the UK for obvious reasons but it should never be under estimated. Check out Acute Mountain Sickness and how serious that can be on the body if not respected and understood.

Why did I go un-guided?

At the time I could not afford a guide however I had a close knit group of friends and we all had the same goal of slowly working our way to getting the knowledge and experience to make it to the top. My last tip would be not to attempt Summit Day unless it was with perfectly clear skys. No need to sh1t yourself trying to map-read in a white-out at 4,000 meters.

Does it have to be Mont Blanc? A good, first trip to the Alps ought to be memorable in its own right, quite apart from the peaks actually ticked. And at your sister's age, there's a decent hope of many more seasons to come: plenty of time for more ambitious routes.

Have you thought of taking yourselves to a more chilled area of the alps to learn the ropes, such as the Dauphine = Massif des Ecrins? (Chamonix can be so relentlessly chilled that it's hard to stay cool.) Good walking, plenty of (rock) climbing across the grades, good campsites, and often better weather than other alpine areas.

Forgot to mention. It took two days accent walking to and stopping overnight at the huts, and one day decent from summit to valley bottom.

Those last couple of hundred meters of accent were purgatory on my lungs and descending was joy beyond description. Got to love that thick oxygenated air as you drop in height.

Are there any people near where you live who have alpine experience they can share with you such as a local climbing club? Some instructors / guides offer alpine training courses in the UK to help you prepare for a trip to the alps. You could, as others have suggested, choose some other suitable alpine objectives to learn and develop your skills together so that you would be better prepared for Mont Blanc, if you still want to do it, for a 31st birthday!

Misha mentioned it, but it should be emphasised: assuming you've acquired the necessary technical skills and general fitness, then acclimatisation is the A and O. With three summits of 3000+m, 3500+ and 4000+ you should be ready. Would be good to combine these with an alpine skills course. I'd still consider a guide though, given that if conditions change suddenly high on the mountain you'd be under stress in a completely new and dangerous situation. Allowing for bad weather days, I'd reckon with 10-14 days for the whole project.

I have climbed both the Gouter and Trois Monts unguided.

Fitness is a key part that will make your day go much smoother. The fitter you are the easier it will be.

I am a rock climber and have done some basic winter walking/mountaineering upto grade 2/3. So am by no means massively experienced. I did however do a lot of online research before I went to make sure I knew everything that could and would happen.

Use your acclimatisation days to practice skills you may need and visit the guides hut in Cham to ask about weather.

If you prepare properly then there is no reason that you need to pay a guide.

I read over that Charlie Boscoe article many times and is a great source of information.

Feel free to message me if you want any other information

Mainly, be hill fit

Yes and you just don’t know how altitude willl affect you until you try it. Conventional wisdom is to do a lower 4,000m+ peak before MB (Grab Paradiso is a popular one but arguably a bit low at just over 4,000m). It would be preferable to spend a day or two climbing / walking above 3,000m before that (but sleeping lower).

Personally I take a while to acclimatise. If I tried to do MB with no acclimatisation, I would get totally shut down and probably wouldn’t get much past the Gouter. Yet the only time I’ve done it I felt like I could run up it - because I was well acclimatised and had already done two 4,200m peaks with a bivvy at 4,000m on the second one. In fact on our route on MB we bivvied at 4,500m (at the top of Pic Luigi Amedeo) and I slept fine except it was a bit chilly. Whereas I’ve had a few dreadful nights in the Cosmiques hut (about 3,600m) over the years when I hadn’t been acclimatised and had missed the last bin. Just goes to show the difference acclimatisation makes. Another reason for allowing for a longer trip. 

You should be hill fit but that doesn’t help you if you take a slide and end up going head first down a slope, unable to stop... or you manage to stop your partber’s slide but get strangled by the body could because you didn’t know how to tie them off... or you fail to get past the hut because you aren’t acclimatised... It’s not just about fitness. 

OP asked for any tips.  And getting hill fit is my tip.  Its not intended as a complete guide to climbing MB.

You wrote "mainly", implying the rest is of secondary importance. It's not.

It's not of secondary importance but for someone with a climbing background, the bit that they are most likely to have difficulty with (or at least the bit which has most impact on their enjoyment), for what is essentially a long snow plod, is fitness 

If you are not Hill Fit, then that affects your safety going up and down MB. On a list of requirements, I'd put this at the beginning.

I disagree. Acclimatisation is at least as important as fitness for enjoyment. But safety is a lot more important than enjoyment and for safety you need technical skills,  acclimatisation and fitness (in that order). 

How do you nav in a white-out? 

If it's more tiring, you're going up the mountain. Less tiring - down.

Technical skills ? Mont Blanc ?  For an experienced UK walker / climber ? Acclimatisation - I'll give you that on a par with fitness.

Might be better fun to take on a mountain you can manage on your own.

depends what you class as technical skills. crampon use and self arresting - are they technical skills? Not to the experienced mountaineer, but to the summer hillwalker - yes possibly. In this instance, where the OP has stated his/her experience I would argue that they do require the 'basic' technical mountaineering skills. 

Anyway, this whole thread is bubbling over into a debate over wording. "mainly",  "technical". I'm sure the OP has long gone and made their decision.

Same way and any other time. You just see less around you.

Inevitable

The OP has zero winter experience as far as I can tell. At the very least they need to know how to use crampons and an axe correctlyl (it takes time to get comfortable with it), how to self arrest and how to rope up for glacier travel. Yes it’s mostly a snow polos but it’s ofteb exposed, traversing long steep slopes which can be icy. One slip and you are gone potentially, depending on conditions, which could be far from ideal. 

Some good overview video on this page of the Gouter Route

https://verticalfrontiers.com/mountaineering/mont-blanc/

the fast forward uphill edit would be pretty useful sometimes in real life! (but not really I suppose...)

BR

Peter

Thanks everyone for the great advice. Given much of the feedback I have read on here I expect I will lower my sights somewhat and look into other options with the aim of gaining experience before tackling the alps! 

Sadly one of the curses of living in Cornwall is that I am rather a long way from any mountains (although I can't complain about the climbing overall!)

Thanks again for all the fantastic feedback.