/ Scots on the Jorasses

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Norrie Muir 18 Oct 2007

Guy Robertson and Pete Benson have completed the impressive Desmaison-Gousseault route on the N Face of Les Grandes Jorasses. See http://www.scottishclimbs.com/wiki/Scots_on_the_Jorasses for a report.
IanJackson 18 Oct 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir:

>Get on it dudes!

Very Scotish.

Good effort, its a route of my Dreams. Maybe in a few Years.
sutty 18 Oct 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir:

Sounds good, and the mention of the slip on the glacier when near the bottom after the route shows the route has not finished till you reach the hut. Well done to them.
Glyn Jones 18 Oct 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir: One wonders why Mick has not posted this as news as it is a good achievement.

Enjoyed reading the link thanks Norrie.
Luca Signorelli 18 Oct 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir:

WOW! Big big big news! Congratulations guys, that's a great one. First free ascent, and eight overall, and if I understand, the fourth ascent of the original line.

Second Scottish ascent of the Desmaison-Gousseault, as the first Scot there was Gordon Smith, who did the second (or third, if you consider the 1971 attempt the first one) ascent with Tobin Sorenson in 1977 (only time the route was done in summer, they apparently opened an the right hand variant)

Stuart en Écosse 18 Oct 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir:

Awesome! Round of applause. I'm just re-reading Total Alpinism just now as well.
ArnaudG 19 Oct 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir:
This is just so impressive. Well done.

A.-
sutty 19 Oct 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir:

Noticed this as well while looking at Desnivel;

http://www.desnivel.com/object.php?o=16213
Norrie Muir 19 Oct 2007
In reply to sutty:
> (In reply to Norrie Muir)
>
> Noticed this as well while looking at Desnivel;
>
> http://www.desnivel.com/object.php?o=16213

Did you see http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=9&year=2007#40234 ?
Doug 19 Oct 2007
In reply to sutty: Guess you missed it when in hospital but Mick had a news item on that

& welcome back
sutty 19 Oct 2007
In reply to Doug:

Missed a lot as the 'internet' in there was so crap. Forgot to rant about it didn't I /
Wry Gob 19 Oct 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir:

Aye Norrie, Jigolo Jon is nothing short of a machine. It should be pointed out though that Messr Brodie (a little known Scot who also appears to be contructed largely of titanium) played a major part in the Bonatti-Vaucher adventure, leading, and I quote, two "unformed sections" with "poor rock, poor protection, and very hard climbing"; rather him than me! I think they also freed the whole route?

paraffin 23 Oct 2007
In reply to Wry Gob:

Good effort! I had the Demaison Route on my list from when I first heard about it in 1976.

Now that you both have done the route, what is your assesment of Demaision's achievement so long ago?
stevef 26 Oct 2007
In reply to Wry Gob:
Yeah congrats to you and Pete. Had a wee look on monday and what a superb line. I couldn't help think about your claw on the descent. The mantra coming down the glacier was 'Don't do a Guy'. All the best for your recovery.
alasdair19 30 Oct 2007
In reply to stevef: what were you up to? of on thursday and partner is worryingly psyched
AlisonS 30 Oct 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir:

Marvellous! Thanks for the link. This is the sort of thing I come onto UKC to hear about.

Well done Guy and Pete.
Tim Chappell30 Oct 2007
In reply to AlisonS:

Nice one. And good to hear that it's not just me-- the Olympians forget their headtorches and drop their ice-tools too....
stevef 30 Oct 2007
In reply to alasdair19:
Colton-Mac. Brief description here:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=264820&v=1#3963552
Could send some pics of places if you like.
dunkindonuts 30 Oct 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir: Awe inspiring effort. Congrats.
alasdair19 30 Oct 2007
In reply to stevef: cheers for the beta picks would be nice, dru out i guess what are the other midi routes looking like?
stevef 30 Oct 2007
In reply to alasdair19:
Didn't go there, but looked like there was plenty to climb from a distance...
Gordon Smith13 Nov 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir: You are right ... I am Scottish. FYI Tobin Sorenson and I did the first free ascent of the Gousseault route on the Jorasses in late October 1977 - with a new right hand start. We didn't use Desmaison's fixed stuff (didn't see much of it except a rope coming in from the left at the top of a beautiful gully about 1/4 of the way up and an empty rucksack at our second bivi site behind a flake on the headwall. Tobin led the crux rock pitch on the headwall with 2 falls and much wailing for a skyhook. He was a brilliant, if rather alarming, rock climber! We did the route with 1 pair of terrors (mine) and a borrowed Chouinard axe and hammer (for Tobin) and bendy Grivel 12 point crampons. Beautiful route in the Autumn - very sustained and with a nice air of seriousness. - Gordon Smith PS Are you the Norrie Muir I used to know, or would you be a son??
Norrie Muir 13 Nov 2007
In reply to Gordon Smith:

It is good to hear from you. Yes, it is the same Norrie.

Luca Signorelli was/is trying to contact you, you could contact him through http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/profile.php?id=34850
Neil Brodie13 Nov 2007
In reply to Gordon Smith:

Now that really is an inspiring piece of news. Where were you Mick?

A young French lad has just claimed a free, hands on rock, ascent of the Gousseault and he reckons that the pitch on the headwall was F6b ie. not far off the top grade on Gogarth in 1977! Tobin must have been seriously psyched or just plain mad (or maybe it's the same thing). Shame he didn't realise that he had a skyhook on the end of his ice-axes, but then I suppose nobody else did for another 15 years. Gordon, did you have rock boots with you? How much ice was there on the route? For your information there is no record of an ascent between yours and the next known one in January 2000, although the Alpine Club guide published around 1990 does mention several repeats. Over the past few years the route has been steadily gaining 'modern' classic status, but I don't think anybody's bettered your style of ascent. Any chance you can send me an email. I'm sure the young generation of French alpinists would love to hear about your climb.
Luca Signorelli 13 Nov 2007
I've mailed you Gordon, would really love to hear from you.

> (In reply to Norrie Muir) You are right ... I am Scottish. FYI Tobin Sorenson and I did the first free ascent of the Gousseault route on the Jorasses in late October 1977 - with a new right hand start.

This is an incredible piece of news, as this means the first all free ascent of ANY "super-route" on the Jorasses, and an incredibly early one. Makes you put in perspective a lot of "exploits" of the 80's!!

Good also to get a much sought-after confirmation of the right hand start thing

> We didn't use Desmaison's fixed stuff (didn't see much of it except a rope coming in from the left at the top of a beautiful gully about 1/4 of the way up

That should be the fixed rope at pitch #14 of the original route. Still there at least until 2005...

> and an empty rucksack at our second bivi site behind a flake on the headwall.

The Millet rucksack left by Desmaison, again, still very much there at least two years ago.

Interesting to see that there was not much gear left back in 1977. This gives an entirely different view of the origins of all the stuff that Guy and Pete have found. A lot of food for thought.
Luca Signorelli 13 Nov 2007
In reply to Neil Brodie:

> A young French lad has just claimed a free, hands on rock, ascent of the Gousseault and he reckons that the pitch on the headwall was F6b ie.

That should be Mathieu Detrie with two other chaps.

>For your information there is no record of an ascent between yours and the next known one in January 2000, although the Alpine Club guide published around 1990 does mention several repeats.

Actually there has been none, only two unrecorded and semi-legendary failed attempts in the late 70's by two unrelated groups of Polish climbers. Both ended with fatalities. I've been hearing about these for years, but got some evidence only very recently.

From 1980 to 2000 the route was basically forgotten. Actually, it had a bad reputation, because it was thought (wrongly, as we're seeing now!) that was mostly an aid route on dreadful rock. Another demonstration how fashion can change even in alpinism...
Neil Brodie14 Nov 2007
In reply to Luca Signorelli:

On Alpinist.com

svislaymist
first free ascent


FYI Tobin Sorenson and I did the first free ascent back in late October 1977 and we didn't use Desmaison's fixed stuff at all... we found plenty of ice and snow on the lower section, including a beautiful narrow ice gully about 1/4 of the way up reminiscent of Scotland at its best. We took a variation on the right and did not find any of Desmaison's fixed stuff until the top of that beautiful gully - where a rope came in from the left. That was pretty much all we saw. (NOTE: The right hand is definitely the most logical start to the route). We bivied a few pitches above this on a ledge to the right of the route proper just above a large roof which we turned on the right. A lot of mixed climbing up a series of ramps and a notable 'shark's fin' of granite sticking out of very hard blue water ice took us to the headwall. We bivied again on the headwall behind a flake of rock in a horrendous blizzard - Tobin used my padded overpants (courtesy Desmaison found on a broken footed retreat from a previous attempt with Black Nicky Colton) while I was wrapped up in a bivi tent (also courtesy of Mons. D). Tobin joined me in the bivi tent eventually and we sat there until it got sort of light. Then we went out for a wild Scottish day of howling snow and gale and gripping climbing ... Tobin led the crux headwall pitch (thank goodness) with 2 falls and much wailing about the need of a sky hook. He was brilliant! Note: we didn't have a sky hook for him to use ... he didn't even have a terror for 'dry hooking' - only a curved Chouinard axe - we had a pair of terrors for me and a chouinard axe and hammer for him and we both had bendy grivel 12 pointers. In fact all Tobin's gear was borrowed as his only ice climbing experience was the first ascent of the Smith-Sorenson ice groove on the West Face of the Plan a couple of day's earlier. I got rather nervous as our ropes were 2 x 200 foot 8MM laid ropes ... very thin looking!! I knew the descent from the Walker and Croz so we almost beat nightfall to the Italian hut ... There I found I had two frostbitten feet which were hard to hitch home to Blairgowrie with and Tobin went on to do the Eiger Direct with Dirty Alex (GRRRR - and they used those 8MM laid ropes of mine)... It was a great mixed route and very sustained with not a lot of resting spots and quite the feeling of seriousness (especially given the empty rucksack we found behind our bivi flake ...). The Smith-Sorenson ice groove was very nice and would have fitted in well on the Ben - it's just to the right (facing the cliff) of the Gabbarrou Picard-Deyme couloir and quite similar to that climb for difficulty.

Wry Gob 15 Nov 2007
In reply to Gordon Smith:

Funnily enough, Norrie asked me previously about my thoughts on Desmaison's 'achievment' on the first ascent. I didn't want to say anything (for obvious reasons) but deep down felt that the route could certainly have been climbed substantially quicker, and mostly free, by leading climbers of the day.

Nonetheless I would still say Gordon that yours and Tobin's ascent of the route free - even with falls - is super-inspirational. Conditions change quite a lot over decades I guess, generally getting thinner, but Benson and I found quite a few pitches that would be a bit (but not much) harder than anything freed in Scotland at the time of your ascent - routes like Mainreachan Buttress, The Link on Lochnagar, etc. I can't imagine these pitches would have been much if any easier when you guys climbed them.

Legendary effort, and just shows you what interesting tales get lost in the swirling mists of time...

Cheers, Guy
sutty 15 Nov 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir:

I hope all this information is cross linked to Scottish climbs, there must be a few who will not see this up there for various reasons.

Probably needs linking to some of the Alpine sites as well.
Luca Signorelli 15 Nov 2007
In reply to Wry Gob:
>
> Funnily enough, Norrie asked me previously about my thoughts on Desmaison's 'achievment' on the first ascent. I didn't want to say anything (for obvious reasons) but deep down felt that the route could certainly have been climbed substantially quicker, and mostly free, by leading climbers of the day.

Well, Giorgio Bertone (was in 1973 with Desmaison and Claret on the first complete ascent of the route) was “one of the leading rock climbers of his day”, at least in Italy, has he had under his belt several early speed ascents of the American Direct on the Drus, the Bonatti at the Capucin etc, plus the first Italian ascent of the Nose, plus extensive climbing in Scotland, Canada etc. Had he not died on that plane crash he would have ended up more famous than Messner.

In 1977, shortly before his untimely death, he commented that what made the 1973 such a time consuming and exhausting affair was a combination of two things –the use of by then-obsolete technology, as they had climbed it as a rock route, with only one “old style” axe each (and no nuts etc), and climbed it (somehow deliberately) in sub-freezing, and horrendously icy conditions, particularly in the last three days. They had to clear almost every crack before getting any chance of putting protection.

He told me also (as I kid I bugged him out almost every other day on this subject!) that he felt that the “new” techniques would have dramatically reduced the climbing time there, as it had happened on the Shroud in 1975 or the Grand Pilier D’Angle in the early 70’s. He died shortly before the Sorenson/Smith repeat, so he had no chance to see his prophecy fulfilled.

This happened also for other many other super-routes – for instance the Directe de L’Amitie (repeated by Roger Baxter Jones and Nick Colton in 1977 in half the time of the first, winter 1974 ascent) the above mentioned Shroud, even the MacIntyre Colton, besieged for 17 days in winter 1972 by Bonington, Haston and Burke, and then almost “flashed” by Alex MacIntyre and Nick Colton in summer, four years later

It’s worth noting that the “consistency” of the climbing times between the 1971, 1973 and 1977 climbs of the Gousseault route is not exactly an academic matter – as Desmaison was openly accused to have (deliberately) spent too much time on the route in order to maximize its media appeal

(On a side note – in many way I feel that the 1973 climb was the last ascent of its era, the age of Bonatti etc. Certainly Giorgio felt so, and I suspect this sentiment was shared by Desmaison)

I think, however, that what makes the Sorenson-Smith climb so obviously impressive is not much the time, but the style – even as late as the first half of the 80’s. most of these big route were climbed with points of aid).

To imagine such an obviously sustained and long route climbed in 1977 entirely free is WAY ahead of its time, and sincerely I feel it’s something that should have got more publicity at the time (got none, as far as I’ve seen in my research).

> Legendary effort, and just shows you what interesting tales get lost in the swirling mists of time...

What got lost (as I wrote before) was the route itself. If Desmaison’s vision had been recognized at the time, I think that Gordon and Tobin’s achievement would have been hailed as a major breakthrough. Instead, as continental climbers went all ga-ga- for pure rock climbing (or technical ice) for a decade, the route went on being remembered just for the 1971 mess (which, in case you'vew not noticed, was locally a huge shock), and the 1977 repeat did accordingly. Too bad, but it’s cool to see some right perspective at last.

Wry Gob 19 Nov 2007
In reply to Luca Signorelli:
> (In reply to Wry Gob)

"I think, however, that what makes the Sorenson-Smith climb so obviously impressive is not much the time, but the style – even as late as the first half of the 80’s. most of these big route were climbed with points of aid)."

I totally agree Luca; this ascent exceptional in that it appears to have pushed technical mixed climbing standards significantly on an ascent of a major Alpine face. Normally, one would expect techniques to be explored and developed on the smaller crags, and then taken to the mountains, but not so in this case. Gordon himself must be aware that there were no mixed winter climbs in Scotland in 1977 of an ordfer of difficulty comparable to the harder pitches on the Desmaison. Legendary!
Luca Signorelli 19 Nov 2007
In reply to Wry Gob:
>
> I totally agree Luca; this ascent exceptional in that it appears to have pushed technical mixed climbing standards significantly on an ascent of a major Alpine face. Normally, one would expect techniques to be explored and developed on the smaller crags, and then taken to the mountains, but not so in this case. Gordon himself must be aware that there were no mixed winter climbs in Scotland in 1977 of an ordfer of difficulty comparable to the harder pitches on the Desmaison. Legendary!


Very much so. Actually, after having at last a VERY long chat with Gordon (thanks Norrie!) I'm convinced even the timing was somehow on a different league - they climbed the whole route in 2 days and 1/2, including half a day spent attempting a variant from the first ramp up to the wall where two years later "Rolling Stone" was opened (they eventually returned on the original route!

And it's still the fastest ascent so far, as the 25 hour climb by Berhault and Magnin covered only 2/3 of the route.
It should be however considered that the original start (the one used by Desmaison) will probably always require one additional day.
Norrie Muir 19 Nov 2007
In reply to Luca Signorelli:

There maybe a tale behind Gordon's 200 feet ropes on the route. I was hitching back from Fort William in the early summer of 1977 and I got a lift from a climber, he had been up climbing on Carn Mor Crag and was regaling on about the climbing there. I must admit I did not look like the climbing type and he was surprised that I had climbed there, he then went on about climbing on Ben Nevis, he said his mate who had fallen trying a new route that winter was going back the following winter with 200 feet ropes to finish the route. This got me curious, so asked for more details. It turned out that his mate was trying Rubicon Wall and got to the end of rope and could not find a belay and then fell off, breaking a few bones. I then said to him, tell Gordon to not bother going back as we (Arthur Paul and myself) did the route and found a belay. There was not much conversation after that.

It was good that Gordon got to use his 200 feet ropes.
Andy Houseman 20 Nov 2007
In reply to Luca Signorelli:
> And it's still the fastest ascent so far, as the 25 hour climb by Berhault and Magnin covered only 2/3 of the route.

I think that Neil and partner blasted it in two day a couple of weeks ago, but as he's mr modest he'll never own up to it...

Luca Signorelli 20 Nov 2007
In reply to Andy Houseman:
> (In reply to Luca Signorelli)
> [...]
>
> I think that Neil and partner blasted it in two day a couple of weeks ago, but as he's mr modest he'll never own up to it...

It's really starting to look like I'll have to spend all my next weekends, for the next couple of decades, camping out at the Boccalatte hut, waiting for Brit climbers coming down from the GJ and then starting, Spanish Inquisition like: "Oi! Where have you been? What route have climbed? How much time? The gear? How many point of aid? Do you post on UKC on a regular basis? What have you done on grit?" etc etc.

It could probably save me some time...
sutty 20 Nov 2007
In reply to Luca Signorelli:

A route book in a local cafe or bar may help keep track of notable ascents, much as we used to have in local cafes here in climbing areas. it would have to be the on climbers use most of course.
Mick Ward 20 Nov 2007
In reply to Luca Signorelli:
> (In reply to Andy Houseman)

> "Oi! Where have you been? Do you post on UKC on a regular basis? What have you done on grit?" etc etc.

And don't forget, "Have you been Norried?"

'I then said to him, tell Gordon to not bother going back... not much conversation after that.'

Surprising? Non!

Mick


Gordon Smith21 Nov 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir: Norrie - Those 200 foot 8mm ropes did the Harlin route on the Eiger with Tobin and Dirty Alex McIntyre (the rats borrowed the ropes but didn't wait for my frostbite to heal up!!!) ... and I never got them back!!

Re Rubicon Wall ... The last thing I remember, after pulling my ropes tight and knocking off my pro, is digging out a piece of rock and ..... I went and did Eagle Ridge instead (after I heard you'd done Rubicon Wall and after I'd hobbled out of the hospital)

PS I'm old .... you must be even older!!
Gordon
Doug 21 Nov 2007
In reply to Gordon Smith: (offtopic a little) - I was at Stirling uni a year or two after you & often folk like John Fraser, Geordie Skelton & Ian Duckworth (who I guess you knew) talked of a Jock Smith - was that you or another Smith ?
Erik B 21 Nov 2007
In reply to Gordon Smith: I know one of Alex Mcintyre's cousins and Im sure she would really appreciate any stories about him as he was a major influence in her life and he was the last member of that side of her family. If you have anything I could send to her then id appreciate it, feel free to pm me

cheers

erik
Wry Gob 21 Nov 2007
In reply to Gordon Smith:

Hi Gordon,

Just a thought, but you might think about doing a wee piece for the SMCJ. I think that would be really cool, given the significance of your ascent at the time. I guess maybe you don't give a shit (fair enough!), but I've always felt history is important as it's what inspires many people to get into climbing in the first place. It certainly inspired me, and I would no doubt have been blown away by an account of the Desmaison had there been one. An accurate historical record is becoming even more valuable in an age when the media tends to blow the significance of some achievements out of all proportion, and completely ignores others.

Cheers, Guy
paraffin 21 Nov 2007
In reply to Gordon Smith:

Hi Gordon,

your's & Tobin's ascent inspired me to poke my nose at the route a few times in the summers of early 80's. Sadly with no success.

BTW, Norrie is 60 yrs old next year and is presently waiting to be a grandad for the second time. Grand Wean was due last Saturday / Sunday 17/ 18 Nov.

cheers

parafinn

Luca Signorelli 21 Nov 2007
In reply to sutty:
> (In reply to Luca Signorelli)
>
> A route book in a local cafe or bar may help keep track of notable ascents, much as we used to have in local cafes here in climbing areas. it would have to be the on climbers use most of course.

The Boccalatte hut guestbook is a wonderful source for this, as the hut is mostly frequented by people coming back and forth from the GJ. The problem being that I've to walk all the 1200m of height difference from Planpincieux to the hut every time I've to check some new entry...

Gordon Smith22 Nov 2007
In reply to Doug: Hi doug ... me ... English Vs Scottish argy bargy with Ian Duckworth led to the 'Jock' nickname (actually I was born and brought up in India). Then Ed Grindley started calling me Wee Jock .....grrrr!
Gordon Smith22 Nov 2007
In reply to Wry Gob: A deal for you ... I'll do a wee article (remember it's thirty years ago) but I would love to see photos sometime - We didn't have a camera as I lost mine while falling off the Ben (did you find it Norrie?? it was a Rolei 35S) and Tobin didn't have anything, much less a camera! email me with your reply to svislaymist@yahoo.com - I'd love to compare notes coz I think our attitude led to your attitude (though we did use wrist loops on our axes and hammers)
Aye the noo
Gordon
Gordon Smith22 Nov 2007
In reply to parafinn: Are you by any chance Davey Parafinn? Jings, granddaddy Norrie must hirple up his climbs with a stick by now.
Gordon
Gordon Smith22 Nov 2007
In reply to Luca Signorelli: Don't whine, Signorelli, it's good for you!
gordon
Gordon Smith22 Nov 2007
In reply to Erik B: Sure, I've a few stories but I'm not exactly sure how he acquired the sobriquet 'Dirty Alex' ...
Gordon
Luca Signorelli 22 Nov 2007
In reply to Gordon Smith:
> (In reply to Luca Signorelli) Don't whine, Signorelli, it's good for you!
> gordon

...far better for the bar at Planpincieux!

Luca Signorelli 22 Nov 2007
In reply to Wry Gob:
> (In reply to Gordon Smith)
>
> Hi Gordon,
>
> An accurate historical record is becoming even more valuable in an age when the media tends to blow the significance of some achievements out of all proportion, and completely ignores others.

I strongly echo this sentiment.
John Lisle 22 Nov 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir:

Thanks for posting this - a tremendous, splendid, inspiring achievement....

...which has provoked one of the best threads in ages.

Double thanks

John
Doug 22 Nov 2007
In reply to Gordon Smith: Thought it must be but wasn't sure. John in particular used to talk about you, he seemed quite pleased that you'd repeated several Robin Smith routes together such as Shiboleth with the same surnames as on the FA

Haven't seen John for about 15 years, wonder if he's still on Coll ?
Norrie Muir 22 Nov 2007
In reply to Gordon Smith:
We didn't have a camera as I lost mine while falling off the Ben (did you find it Norrie?? it was a Rolei 35S)

I never found your camera. We never knew about the camera or we would not have done the route, we would have searched about to find it. The only reason we did the route was to get your ropes and they made good swings for the weans.
sutty 22 Nov 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir:

LOL, now everyone should read that comment to see how you yield to nobody, apart from your wife;-)
Andy Nisbet 22 Nov 2007
In reply to Doug:
>
> Haven't seen John for about 15 years, wonder if he's still on Coll ?

If you mean John Fraser, then yes he was on Coll two years ago. I met him there and he still climbs, mostly on Coll

paraffin 22 Nov 2007
In reply to Gordon Smith:
> Are you by any chance Davey Parafinn?

Yes, Gordon nice to remake your acquaintance.

Respect to you, sir

Parafinn
paraffin 22 Nov 2007
In reply to sutty:
> LOL, now everyone should read that comment to see how you yield to nobody, apart from your wife;-)

True, Norrie is not for the turning. His wife makes for all of Norrie's deficiencies. A charming, resolute and patient wife.
Doug 22 Nov 2007
In reply to Andy Nisbet: Hi Andy, never realised you knew John - I climbed with him quite a bit when I was at Stirling

Doug
(Boat of Garten/Paris)
Andy Nisbet 22 Nov 2007
In reply to Doug:

I had some gear visible and he came over for a chat. I have an e-mail address if you want to get in touch. e-mail me and I'll send it.
Gordon Smith28 Nov 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir: Hi Norrie ... mea culpa - apparently Tobin and I did use a little bit of aid on the Jorasses. Can't think where we used it. Apparently it's there in writing in Mountain Mag. Don't remember making the report either. Must be senility setting in. Whatever, its a fantastic mixed route.
Gordon, dissolving into old age
Glen 09 Dec 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir:

Possibly of relevance to this thread, I've just spotted this:

http://tinyurl.com/yp7c8x
Doug 18 Dec 2007
Wasn't sure whether to add here or start a new thread but TVmountain have a video of a recent ascent (this November) of the Gousseault- Desmaison
see http://www.tvmountain.com/fr/sujet.asp?id_sujet=328
(click on 'video' to start the video)
Erik B 18 Dec 2007
In reply to Doug: thats the young french lad who did a film about climbing on the ben with his dad
Doug 19 Dec 2007
In reply to Erik B: thought the name was familiar from somewhere

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