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I'm interested to know if many people on here have ever taken a fall on a via ferrata?
I did a fair few via ferratas last year in the Dolomites and in Austria, there was never a time where I though I may take a fall. I was wondering if anyone on here had ever come a cropper on a VF, and if so how did it happen?
It might be that the ones I did weren’t difficult enough (VF4B at the hardest), or it might be that as I come from a climbing background I was more confident on rock than let’s say a slightly adventurous family with kids, or it could be that whenever it started to get 'hard' pulling on the cable was the thing to do.
I did a fair few via ferratas last year in the Dolomites and in Austria, there was never a time where I though I may take a fall. I was wondering if anyone on here had ever come a cropper on a VF, and if so how did it happen?
It might be that the ones I did weren’t difficult enough (VF4B at the hardest), or it might be that as I come from a climbing background I was more confident on rock than let’s say a slightly adventurous family with kids, or it could be that whenever it started to get 'hard' pulling on the cable was the thing to do.
In reply to BStar:
Or it could be that you were whimpering like a little lost puppy and I had to push you up all of them.
Or it could be that you were whimpering like a little lost puppy and I had to push you up all of them.
2
In reply to BStar:
no, but I've only done one week in the Dolomites.
Falling just before clipping the next peg could be pretty painful..
no, but I've only done one week in the Dolomites.
Falling just before clipping the next peg could be pretty painful..
In reply to BStar:
I've never taken a fall (also coming from a climbing background and making shameless use of the cable if needed) - but an instructor I spoke to recently had seen a few. The main issue he raised was people struggling to reclip on steep bits - many clients finding it fairly hard to hold on with one hand and reclip with the other, often because they weren't used to finding comfortable and efficient positions to do it in. (And so the solution was often for the instructor to be positioned so he could reclip for them, but that's not what you asked....)
I've never taken a fall (also coming from a climbing background and making shameless use of the cable if needed) - but an instructor I spoke to recently had seen a few. The main issue he raised was people struggling to reclip on steep bits - many clients finding it fairly hard to hold on with one hand and reclip with the other, often because they weren't used to finding comfortable and efficient positions to do it in. (And so the solution was often for the instructor to be positioned so he could reclip for them, but that's not what you asked....)
In reply to BStar:
I imagine most people taking a fall will be down to an unforeseen accident rather than their climbing ability e.g. hold breaking, footslip etc. I've done most of the Via Ferrata around the Briancon area and a fair few others and if you are sensible you really shouldn't be falling off, but accidents happen! The grades (of the ones I've done) don't always match the technical difficulty as they consider many factors.
I imagine most people taking a fall will be down to an unforeseen accident rather than their climbing ability e.g. hold breaking, footslip etc. I've done most of the Via Ferrata around the Briancon area and a fair few others and if you are sensible you really shouldn't be falling off, but accidents happen! The grades (of the ones I've done) don't always match the technical difficulty as they consider many factors.
In reply to BStar:
My wife had a short slip on a polished section on Punta Anna (5C) - didn't go very far but shook her up. I haven't fallen, but did get mighty pumped on an overhanging section on one in France. I've seen a few people get cragfast and have to be short-roped when the exposure has gotten to them. For me the biggest risk is being knocked out by a falling rock, or slipping on iced up holds.
As to technical difficulty, I seen plenty of people struggle at the start of Della Trincee (4B), even when pulling on the cables (a couple of extra slings proved useful). I managed to climb it without using the metal - about 4c, but close to my limit in approach shoes.
Piazetta(5C) is another one with a very tough start, where you have to pull on the cables - much prefer those where you can stick to the rock
My wife had a short slip on a polished section on Punta Anna (5C) - didn't go very far but shook her up. I haven't fallen, but did get mighty pumped on an overhanging section on one in France. I've seen a few people get cragfast and have to be short-roped when the exposure has gotten to them. For me the biggest risk is being knocked out by a falling rock, or slipping on iced up holds.
As to technical difficulty, I seen plenty of people struggle at the start of Della Trincee (4B), even when pulling on the cables (a couple of extra slings proved useful). I managed to climb it without using the metal - about 4c, but close to my limit in approach shoes.
Piazetta(5C) is another one with a very tough start, where you have to pull on the cables - much prefer those where you can stick to the rock
In reply to BStar:
I took a fair old swing on a VF a few years ago after injuring my arm a few days before(ligaments/tendons) as well as being a relative novice.
Climbing up an overhang, a couple of metres above the last peg, just at steepest bit, with next peg after the overhang, and as I reached up to next rung with my good arm, my injured arm just gave up. Next thing you know I'm briefly upside down and then crashing/sliding back down the wire and smacking back into the rock face after bouncing off a few rungs on the way down and left hanging.
Interesting experience, certainly improved my confidence in that kit works, and also appreciated my harness some more. I shan't be so complacent about an injury next time. But I can safely say that the kit works!
I took a fair old swing on a VF a few years ago after injuring my arm a few days before(ligaments/tendons) as well as being a relative novice.
Climbing up an overhang, a couple of metres above the last peg, just at steepest bit, with next peg after the overhang, and as I reached up to next rung with my good arm, my injured arm just gave up. Next thing you know I'm briefly upside down and then crashing/sliding back down the wire and smacking back into the rock face after bouncing off a few rungs on the way down and left hanging.
Interesting experience, certainly improved my confidence in that kit works, and also appreciated my harness some more. I shan't be so complacent about an injury next time. But I can safely say that the kit works!
In reply to BStar:
Not me, but I guess this is a classic.
youtube.com/watch?v=awORVMs_4d0&
I always slide my hand up the wire with the krab resting on top of it to eliminate the 'krab sliding down by your feet when you fumble it' scenario.
I've never taken a fall, and cable haul all the time - for me, VF isn't about 'climbing', it's about exposure, adventure and getting to cool places. Who wants to fall off where you're likely to hook a limb through a step or ladder and mangle yourself?
Not me, but I guess this is a classic.
youtube.com/watch?v=awORVMs_4d0&
I always slide my hand up the wire with the krab resting on top of it to eliminate the 'krab sliding down by your feet when you fumble it' scenario.
I've never taken a fall, and cable haul all the time - for me, VF isn't about 'climbing', it's about exposure, adventure and getting to cool places. Who wants to fall off where you're likely to hook a limb through a step or ladder and mangle yourself?
1
In reply to TAG_UTLEY:
What lanyard were you using and what happened to it?
> Interesting experience, certainly improved my confidence in that kit works, and also appreciated my harness some more. I shan't be so complacent about an injury next time. But I can safely say that the kit works!
What lanyard were you using and what happened to it?
1
In reply to Toerag:
I'm pleased that's not you... actually I'm really pleased the bloody cameraman ain't you. What a knob.
> Not me, but I guess this is a classic.
I'm pleased that's not you... actually I'm really pleased the bloody cameraman ain't you. What a knob.
1
In reply to Toerag:
I'm at work now so can't watch the video but judging by the reaction I look forward to seeing it...
I get that it's not really about climbing, I was curious as to how hard they can actually get and with the mass recall of VF sets I thought that maybe falling on them was more common than I thought, obviously frequency of accidents has nothing to do with the recall though (one would hope).
Looking back at some of the VFs I did this year, there was one or two that had 'loose' cables that would pull through the clamps slightly and that had way too much cable between pegs, making pulling on them difficult but even still, slipping didnt seem likely.
I'm at work now so can't watch the video but judging by the reaction I look forward to seeing it...
I get that it's not really about climbing, I was curious as to how hard they can actually get and with the mass recall of VF sets I thought that maybe falling on them was more common than I thought, obviously frequency of accidents has nothing to do with the recall though (one would hope).
Looking back at some of the VFs I did this year, there was one or two that had 'loose' cables that would pull through the clamps slightly and that had way too much cable between pegs, making pulling on them difficult but even still, slipping didnt seem likely.
In reply to Toerag:
Quite. My feeling on VF is that protection is there to stop falling meaning death, not that falling is OK. Same to me with trad or ice. Falling OTOH is perfectly fine on sport (as steep as possible) or indoor. Different mindsets.
Neil
Quite. My feeling on VF is that protection is there to stop falling meaning death, not that falling is OK. Same to me with trad or ice. Falling OTOH is perfectly fine on sport (as steep as possible) or indoor. Different mindsets.
Neil
Post edited at 09:41
In reply to Tony the Blade:
If the cameraman is an instructor (or is otherwise taking responsibility for the other person) he really should have gone round and set him up a belay.
Neil
If the cameraman is an instructor (or is otherwise taking responsibility for the other person) he really should have gone round and set him up a belay.
Neil
In reply to BStar:
Isn't a slightly loose cable deliberate, so if you fall your krabs end up in a cable loop rather than loaded sideways (possibly dangerously) against the anchor?
Neil
Isn't a slightly loose cable deliberate, so if you fall your krabs end up in a cable loop rather than loaded sideways (possibly dangerously) against the anchor?
Neil
In reply to Neil Williams:
It could have been intentional, however in this case I doubt it was, it was a rather old one that hadn't really been maintained from the looks of it. It was a section that required the cable to be pulled on however you couldnt as it was coming away from the wall that much and also pulling throught the next anchor.
It could have been intentional, however in this case I doubt it was, it was a rather old one that hadn't really been maintained from the looks of it. It was a section that required the cable to be pulled on however you couldnt as it was coming away from the wall that much and also pulling throught the next anchor.
In reply to Toerag:
I was using a Petzl Zyper Vertigo. With the breaking device and a short piece of rope, not one of the single use ones. I can happily say I'd use it again.
I was using a Petzl Zyper Vertigo. With the breaking device and a short piece of rope, not one of the single use ones. I can happily say I'd use it again.
In reply to Neil Williams:
Also, I totally agree with this mindset, I guess accidents happen when scrambling and a lot of VF's are similar to that style.
> (In reply to Toerag) Quite. My feeling on VF is that protection is there to stop falling meaning death, not that falling is OK. Same to me with trad or ice. Falling OTOH is perfectly fine on sport (as steep as possible) or indoor. Different mindsets.
>
> Neil
>
> Neil
Also, I totally agree with this mindset, I guess accidents happen when scrambling and a lot of VF's are similar to that style.
In reply to BStar:
Yeah, I've not done many but the sort of thing I've done felt like "protected, exposed scrambling with a few ladders and stuff to assist" rather than climbing.
Neil
Yeah, I've not done many but the sort of thing I've done felt like "protected, exposed scrambling with a few ladders and stuff to assist" rather than climbing.
Neil
In reply to Neil
My understanding of that video is that the VF had diverged and the cameraman had taken the easier route which was a ladder, so he probably was the less experienced and didn't have the skills to rescue his friend.
If the guy who fell had fallen earlier, before making the clip, it could have been nasty. They were out of their depth.
My understanding of that video is that the VF had diverged and the cameraman had taken the easier route which was a ladder, so he probably was the less experienced and didn't have the skills to rescue his friend.
If the guy who fell had fallen earlier, before making the clip, it could have been nasty. They were out of their depth.
In reply to TAG_UTLEY:
How much rope pulled through the Zyper when you fell? I would hate to experience a fall with enough force to reach the end - might actually be fatal!
I think I was told that if any rope pulled through it should be binned when you can get to a shop to replace it, whereas a slump won't pull rope through and so is fine for reuse, but it's your gear!
How much rope pulled through the Zyper when you fell? I would hate to experience a fall with enough force to reach the end - might actually be fatal!
I think I was told that if any rope pulled through it should be binned when you can get to a shop to replace it, whereas a slump won't pull rope through and so is fine for reuse, but it's your gear!
In reply to Gone:
If he'd fallen earlier he would have fallen in space, but obviously whilst that's safe when your sport climbing on a nice bouncy rope it's a different matter on VF kit. The kit should absorb the fall, but i suspect you'd still get quite a jolt. I suspect the cables are slack to avoid you slamming into the rock face. I wonder if he'd have been able to get himself out on his own. Clearly very pumped and not shaking out so presumably not a climber. Given half an hour his arms would have recovered sufficiently, but he might have continued trying and falling, thus taking more bounce out of his kit each time.
The vid does demonstrate the different nature of Dolomites vs French VFs - the latter are safer but far more strenuous, less adventure, more playtime.
> If the guy who fell had fallen earlier, before making the clip, it could have been nasty. They were out of their depth.
If he'd fallen earlier he would have fallen in space, but obviously whilst that's safe when your sport climbing on a nice bouncy rope it's a different matter on VF kit. The kit should absorb the fall, but i suspect you'd still get quite a jolt. I suspect the cables are slack to avoid you slamming into the rock face. I wonder if he'd have been able to get himself out on his own. Clearly very pumped and not shaking out so presumably not a climber. Given half an hour his arms would have recovered sufficiently, but he might have continued trying and falling, thus taking more bounce out of his kit each time.
The vid does demonstrate the different nature of Dolomites vs French VFs - the latter are safer but far more strenuous, less adventure, more playtime.
In reply to BStar:
I've had a novice I was supervising take a fall on an overhanging section. He fell perhaps 4-5m, ripped a third of the stitching on his Petzl VF rig and was absolutely fine.
Basically he was scared, was over gripping massively and got so pumped he fell before he could get to the end of the steepest section of the route. I was right next to him and thought he'd manage the next 2 moves OK, but he didn't.
I've had a novice I was supervising take a fall on an overhanging section. He fell perhaps 4-5m, ripped a third of the stitching on his Petzl VF rig and was absolutely fine.
Basically he was scared, was over gripping massively and got so pumped he fell before he could get to the end of the steepest section of the route. I was right next to him and thought he'd manage the next 2 moves OK, but he didn't.
In reply to Gone:
Not very much at all, an inch(ish) maybe at most(and there is still a very good length of rope left, not looked at it in a while so cannot say exactly) . It stretched of course, and the wire I slid down wasn't taught, so that took some of the force out.
I'd certainly prefer the reusable style over single use, as after it's gone, you've not got any safety margin, especially if on a long route. My understanding of the type I was using that this is okay. If a considerable amount had passed through the braking device I would retire it.
Not very much at all, an inch(ish) maybe at most(and there is still a very good length of rope left, not looked at it in a while so cannot say exactly) . It stretched of course, and the wire I slid down wasn't taught, so that took some of the force out.
I'd certainly prefer the reusable style over single use, as after it's gone, you've not got any safety margin, especially if on a long route. My understanding of the type I was using that this is okay. If a considerable amount had passed through the braking device I would retire it.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
I have a sling attached to my harness for occassions like this so I can quickly clip in and have a rest.Fortunately never needed to do so for years but its useful to have.
I have a sling attached to my harness for occassions like this so I can quickly clip in and have a rest.Fortunately never needed to do so for years but its useful to have.
In reply to prog99:
Some kits have a point to attach an extra krab for having a rest. It's on the same side of the screamer as the normal lanyards in order that you don't die if you accidentally fall on it, so it's safer than a sling. (unless you're *very* heavy you aren't going to deploy the screamer purely by weighting it).
Neil
Some kits have a point to attach an extra krab for having a rest. It's on the same side of the screamer as the normal lanyards in order that you don't die if you accidentally fall on it, so it's safer than a sling. (unless you're *very* heavy you aren't going to deploy the screamer purely by weighting it).
Neil
In reply to prog99:
Always useful to carry a couple of slings with you - resting, additional hold or anchors, and in one case, rescuing a little old lady who'd strayed onto the route by accident !
Always useful to carry a couple of slings with you - resting, additional hold or anchors, and in one case, rescuing a little old lady who'd strayed onto the route by accident !
I often use a special via ferrata kit, the Skylotec Skyrider. If used correctly on steel cable of appropriate diameter, the special attachment device automatically clamps onto the steel cable if pulled in the downward direction. Something like how a one-way pulley (e.g. MicroTraxion) works to provide a self-belay capability on nylon rope.
So instead of falling down below the next lower cable attachment anchor point, I fall only as far as the length of the lanyard below the special attachment device (which hopefully I had pushed higher up along the cable above me before I tried some difficult or strenuous move).
I like to use it when I'm trying "free" climbing moves with my hands and feet directly on the rock (using the steel cable only for protection, not aid). I've done some rather fun interesting sections of Via Ferrata routes with "free" climbing moves in the range of Euro grade 5c to 6b in this way. Some of my favorites are VF Les Perrons (Venosc + L2A France) and VF Cesco Tomaselli (by Falzarego+Lagazuoi Italy)
Ken
P.S. A serious concern when taking a fall with most VF kits other than the Skylotec Skyrider is not only the impact on spine or pelvis -- but also hitting a protruding obstacle below such as a rock horn or ledge -- or one of the VF cable anchors.
Post edited at 03:02
1
In reply to kenr:
Given that I dislike falling on lead even when I know it's safe (sport/indoor) - and VF is possibly an extreme case of that - I quite like that idea. Is it single or multi use for a "top rope" fall? Does it damage the cable?
Neil
Given that I dislike falling on lead even when I know it's safe (sport/indoor) - and VF is possibly an extreme case of that - I quite like that idea. Is it single or multi use for a "top rope" fall? Does it damage the cable?
Neil
In reply to Neil Williams:
The Skylotec Skyrider is multi-use.
Lots of times I just hang on it to rest when I'm working out a difficult "free" move with hands and feet directly on the rock. Then resume climbing. Temporarily hanging on it also gives me immediate confidence that the device would really hold me if I took a fall.
Falling on the Skylotec Skyrider does not damage the steel cable.
Note that a handful of new VF routes in the Dachstein of Austria have installed cables which are too thick for the Skyrider device.
Ken
P.S. another VF route with many interesting "free" moves directly on rock is "Sci Club 18" by Cortina. Very convenient lift access by the Faloria lift, lots and lots of climbing (following a rather contrived route), alas no shortage of loose rock -- I'd do it again on a mid-week day off-season.
The Skylotec Skyrider is multi-use.
Lots of times I just hang on it to rest when I'm working out a difficult "free" move with hands and feet directly on the rock. Then resume climbing. Temporarily hanging on it also gives me immediate confidence that the device would really hold me if I took a fall.
Falling on the Skylotec Skyrider does not damage the steel cable.
Note that a handful of new VF routes in the Dachstein of Austria have installed cables which are too thick for the Skyrider device.
Ken
P.S. another VF route with many interesting "free" moves directly on rock is "Sci Club 18" by Cortina. Very convenient lift access by the Faloria lift, lots and lots of climbing (following a rather contrived route), alas no shortage of loose rock -- I'd do it again on a mid-week day off-season.
Post edited at 16:11
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