UKC

Hi there

Looking for recommendations on a tent that I can use for wild camping, requirements;

- must be green to blend in

- weight under 2kg

- 2 person capacity 

- able to stand up well in rough conditions 

my budget probably stretches to £400ish, happy to go second hand if needed.

I would like something I could use into 4 seasons if possible but that’s a nice to have. Will use in Scotland, Lakes, Snowdonia etc.

Thoughts?

4 season camping in the UK hills is pretty hardcore.

Agreed. £400 may not be enough to withstand Cairngorm plateau in a hurricane*. 

OP: what are you intending to use it for exactly?

* I can vouch for the Hilleberg Nallo 2 taking Force 12 winds in its stride. Not good for the budget though

The MSR Access meets all your requirements except the price: 

https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/equipment-c3/tents-shelters-c25/two...

If that's a bit too much and you can live with less sturdiness then the Hubba Hubba would be the next one to consider.

https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/equipment-c3/tents-shelters-c25/two...

I own a MSR Elixir 2, it's over 2Kg but was noticeably much sturdier than the Hubba Hubba pitched nearby on the same campsite in strong winds. 

If it's genuine 4 season weather you want to camp in then I would consider the heavier stronger tents out there rather than worry about having a pole snap in the middle of the night. Most lightweight tents use a lot of mesh on the inner tent which will feel very cold and draughty in mid winter.

There's a Crux X2 tent on eBay that you might want to look at.  No connection to me, and nor have I any experience with this tent or even this brand, just saw it there and your post came to mind.

The inner seems a bit short, and it is above your target weight, but worth having a look at if nothing else.

T.

Hi Jon,

intending to use it for wild camping on walks in lakes, Snowdonia and Scotland. I’ve done a lot of walking in summer conditions and may extend that into winter hill walking subject to completing the appropriate training. 

I’m a scout leader with a summer hill walking permit and Covid depending I may take on some winter training in the future so I’m thinking ahead with tents.

up until now I’ve used our scout troops msr hubba hubbas which we have for our leaders. I was away in Lakes last weekend with a mate and the hubba we were in took a real battering in high winds despite the sheltered spot we’d pitched up in.

so I am thinking about investing in something of my own with a bit more backbone that the hubba hubba. 

I’ll likely be back in Scotland next year as we do plan to spend some more time up in the Cairngorms or on the West Coast.

I did spot the MSR access 2, it’s a bit more £ than I intended to spend but I could stretch to it if needed. 

do people rate the MSR access for my needs?

hopefully that gives a bit more info. 
 

thanks for the replies so far. 

Interesting, I’ve seen them flattened at 60 mph. Admittedly “pegged” in moraine (rocked down really).

To the OP - a proper hardcore 4 season tent that weighs sub-2kg probably doesn’t exist, especially for £400. My suggestion would be to sack in the weight criteria and get a Quasar.

Ive got an access - lots of mesh on the inner and single pole construction which is not especially conducive to stability in wind. I’d suggest it’s not a 4 season tent suited to Scotland in winter!

If you can't afford Hilleberg then at the present time the only slightly less expensive tent manufacturer I'm aware of that seems to be getting almost universally positive reviews is MSR.

There's around a dozen other brands out there of which I've either had niggling problems with, have seen issues in friends/colleagues tents or heard about problems 3rd hand. I don't like slagging off products online, but I'm definitely coming up short on other brands or models to strongly recommend despite regularly chatting about tents with other mountaineers.

Unfortunately my general impression is that there is a lack of really, really good proven designs currently. Some manufacturers have stupidly abandoned old and tested designs due to marketing pressure. Others have done the opposite, sticking with well-known but rather over-hyped products. There's also a few that have two many variations and are changing models far too much so they have niggling faults that wouldn't exist if (as per Hilleberg) they gradually perfected a smaller number of products. Finally, there are a couple of manufacturers that just rips off other designs with vary degrees of success.

Anyway, good luck and sorry that I couldn't be more helpful. However, you might be able to take comfort that you're definitely not asking an easy question! 

​​​​​​Might be better to sack the 4 season criteria. Not many people need a true 4 season tent for UK use. By true 4 season I mean something that can stand significant snow loading and year round camping in exposed locations.

Are you sure you’ve not got the elixir?

Hi, appreciate the response, actually your input is super helpful. I'm now realizing there isn't a simple solution to my question and it's making me conclude not to rush it. 

So, maybe I should stick with the Hubbas for general use and look at something more beefy like a quasar and take the weight increase if I do end up in proper 4 season territory. 

thanks

Barry

Yeah, for all tents with that pull-out-and-peg tunnel design, you're going to need good pegging and uni-directional wind. 

Something worth considering by the OP: free standing design or not?

Macpac minaret is only just over 2kg

Writing off budget and weight for a second (i.e a pretty standard UKC reply) I used to own a Terra Nova Voyager (Wild Country when I bought it) that was sub £400 in those days and just over the 2Kg mark (well, 2.5 kg if we're being honest) which was an awesome free standing 3 season tent that survived 70 mph winds on Lochnagar in winter and had to be dug out of the snow drifts twice. 

I'd hesitate to call it four season as it was cosy for two with winter kit and had lots of lovely mesh to let body heat escape but I'd trust it in anything.

My new tent is much lighter but I sleep less easy in minging conditions.

I use either my Vango Blade or my classic Vango Banshee - both have withstood a hefty scottish winter overnight. No need to spend shed loads on the tent, get a decent sleeping bag instead.

The Xephyros was my favourite, but it got nicked with my van.

It's listed as 2.4kg and it's pretty cramped for 2 people. Bombproof though.

Yes... because its actually a Reflex I've got which is clearly also not an access 🤦

Indeed - hence me favouring a geodesic design!

Terra Nova Voyager seems the best compromise to me, you might only find one for £500 new but very will made and a design thats good for UK climate. i.e not too much mesh and a low to ground flysheet and bucket groundsheet. Main drawback is the inner first pitch but that can be worked around in rain with a little practise. Inner first pitch means you get maximum space for the weight though. Whilst not as strong as a Quasar, they are a tolerable weight for one person (c.2kg) while being big enough for two with reasonable headroom/space. If you mostly want it for two people, get a quasar.

HTH

I use a Hilleberg Anjan 2 and I love it. While on the lighter side from their range, it's also under 2kg and more budget friendly. At £400 you might have to go SH.

Has been pitched in high winds in the Peaks and to my surprise, took it like a champ. It also works on mild winter days, but considering it's construction, I wouldn't venture on top on the Cairngorms in a winter storm. For that, they make 4 season ones. Keep in mind that by going for a winter/4 season tent you sacrifice on weight and ventilation, therefore condensation might become a problem in warmer weather.

Have a look at the Nemo tents (US). Tricky to find but a good balance of weight/ hoolie resistance

https://www.nemoequipment.com/product/kunai/

As a few people have mentioned, a true 4 season tent 2 man tent is usually going to weigh in above 2kg. I've camped all over in my Hilleberg Jannu (weighs 3.5kg so I only use it in winter now) and even that has snapped a pole in Scottish winter weather. For 3 season use, unless you are really pushing shoulder season, I prefer an UL pyramid with an inner. As long as the ground pegs are solid (usually not a problem in the UK hills), they are very strong in wind and weigh much less than a traditional tent. There are also more enclosed models like Tarptent if you are worried about windblown rain, which is a problem in the UK. I have just been on a mountaineering trip in an MSR Access and it would undoubtedly do the job for 3 season use but I was a little sceptical of it in stronger wind as it has a single lateral pole, although it wasn't really tested so I can't judge fairly. I would lean towards getting a cheaper UL option for 3 season use, then you can save some of your budget and put it towards a true 4 season tent later if you do want to go down that route. For UL recommendations, have a look at what is being used on the TGO Challenge recently and it will give you an idea of what works in the UK hills (most UL advice online is US-centric).

I'm not sure if what you are looking for exists, esp at 2kg or under. I have a Minaret which is good as a sturdy if slightly cramped option for year round use but heavier than your spec and I've not used it in a true winter gale in say Scotland...as others have said a Quasar or similar which be a much better option in these conditions. It does pitch outer first though or outer/inner together which is brilliant in wet weather. 

All the advice thus far has been pretty good so won't add to it much. On the Outdoor gear exchange fb group (hope this isn't sacrilege on here!) you can occasionally find good tents at good prices, if you're prepared to hang around a wee bit. I bought my two Hillebergs from there. Are you one person or two? If one person, you could get something like the Hilleberg Akto/Enan. As others have said on here, a true 4-season tent is gonna weigh more and cost more. If you go slightly below that criteria, you could get a lighter, cheaper tent. Just don't camp out in horrid conditions!

hi all, some excellent pointers coming up, many thanks. 

A question on Quasars.. What's the difference between a Terra Nova Quasar and a Wild Country Quasar? Is one a 'budget' version?

thanks

Tarptent Scarp 2 with the optional crossing poles.

Free standing, two porches, 2.2Kg with a solid inner but drops to under 2Kg if you leave the crossing poles at home. $434

https://www.tarptent.com/product/scarp-2/

There is currently no Wild Country Quasar.

The Quasar is only in the Terra Nova range. There is the Wild Country Trisar 3D which is a  four pole geodesic dunnel tent similar in design.

There has not been a Wild Country Quasar since Terra Nova was created in the late 1980's or early 1990's.

Wild Country tents are now the budget range of tents using cheaper and heavier materials.

Thanks. I saw a wild country quasar on eBay so it’s either old or not a quasar then I guess.. Cheers

I've never regretted over-speccing my tents. I've got a 15 year old MH Trango 2 which has rarely been further than 100m from the car but has been worth it on the odd occasion it's been used in anger.

Conversely, I've ended up getting rid of all my super light tents; don't sleep well knowing you mustn't roll into the sides or worry that it's not going to hold up. I suspect there is also an equation around weight saved on the tent gets added to a thicker bag, more food etc to seep warm.

I've got the 1-man MSR access - haven't used it in really bad weather but seems pretty solid. Contrary to the review on here, you can put it up fly-first with a bit of lateral thinking.

The Quasar started life as as the Wintergear Sapphire in 1984 before Wild Country purchased Wintergear and renamed the tent 'Quasar. This ran as three variants; standard, giant and mountain. Wild Country sold the tent business to Terra Nova in 1993. For a short period the tents were dual-branded as both WC and TN.

Any Wild Country branded Quasar will be almost 30 years old and not fit for mountain use. The integrity of the nylon just won't be there after this time.

I think quasars have thrown a spanner in the works 😂 Maybe we should have called the quasar 5 season, I have a 25 year old Quasar  that is still doing service and I love it, it’s been my home for weeks on end summer and winter, you alway smugly knew that if an apocalypse storm hit the campsite you’d be last man standing. Amazing to think the tent I had as a young gun is still going out with me and the kids .

But there is no way I’d be carrying for multi day solo camping trips now, not unless I was expecting a storm and to be honest why would you do that?
 

Don’t  get to hung up on a fortress 

A Phoenix Phortress would be ideal albeit a little heavy!

I think a Phortress made from modern materials could be awesome. That canted pole system that tensions the whole side must be incredibly strong.

Perhaps a Trekkertent Phreeranger?

Frankly you'd have to be nuts to camp on the Cairngorm plateau in a winter storm.

The Max gust recorded by the Cairngorm weather station was 176mph you'd be half way to Norway in that.

My mate's old Phoenix Phreak disintegrated in a very strong gale one year, whilst my YHA Quasar-alike survived shaken, but not stirred. Fortunately, we found a Hilleberg Alto cheap in Betws, so the remains of the Phreak went in the skip.

I started looking for really lightweight 4 season tents a couple of years ago and wasn't convinced. I ended up with a cheap and cheerful Vango - it was a Mirage 200 but I think it has been renamed as the Helvellyn. It's a bit heavier but fine between 2, and I was pleasantly surprised at how well it was made. I would be confident using it in some pretty grim conditions, both from a design and robustness point of view..

Your scout group can afford MSR tents?!! You must be doing some pretty amazing fund raising? 

They are much cherished items! We’ve done pretty well at fund raising over the last few years. We’re lucky to have a great team behind us who organise fund raisers which then allows our leaders to focus on leading scouty stuff. 

As other said, stable, cheap, lighweight, pick two....

We have several tents, but by far the most bombproof one, and the only one I would consider for true Alpine winter use is the Hilleberg Tarra. It is heavy, but for full winter use this is usually less of a problem, as you pull it on a pulk.

CB

The phreak was no phoenix!

Fair play, to be honest I only said that out of jealousy ) we would kill to have a team to rely on for fundraising

Maybe if we'd set fire to it...

I use a Hilleberg Niak , freestanding very quick to pitch , I have used it over 100 nights in all weathers Brecon Beacons , Snowdonia  the Lakes and and has stood up well , you can double pole if you wanted to.

Expensive but great bargain if second hand , just looked at price  and i did not pay anywhere near that as it was on offer at Taunton Leisure

https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/equipment-c3/tents-shelters-c25/all...

As has been mentioned, there's a bit of ambiguity over what is meant by true 'four-season' use.

For what it is worth, however, I agree with some of the points  touched upon in this reply in regards to using a single-pole pyramid tent :
https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/gear/3-4_season_tent_recommendations-7259... 

Cairngorm plateau type madness aside, I've found that my HexPeak (single pole pyramid tent - about £200 with optional two-person inner - BackpackingLight ) holds up well in the shoulder seasons and in moderate winter conditions. In my experience, over the few years of using the Hexpeak, it has proved capable of withstanding a certain amount of snow loading and (with additional guys) winds of 60 ish mph. Off the top of my head the tent, with two-person inner, pole and pegs comes in just shy of 1.8kg. 

I've also heard fantastic things about the Tarptent Scarp, though I have no direct experience of using it...yet! 

I hope that this helps, good luck in finding something that suits you and enjoy your winter camping. 

force 10 mtn2

 What is this 'shoulder seasons'? Never heard of it before this thread.

The period between the recognised four seasons. As imprecise as the defining a date for the season but helps provide further nuance.

For example the shoulder periods to 'spring' would be early March and late May.

Sorry for the delay in replying. It's as TMM has stated. 

I'd second vango for 'bang for your buck". My vango mirage has survived everything  my 1990s quasar has faced for less than half the price and will last for more than half the time...

Thanks. Understand now, though odd never to have heard it before, despite much research on tents, sleeping bags etc. ovet the years. Is it an Americanism?